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Lidstrom's Chances at Another Norris


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#81 HankthaTank

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 09:20 AM

Nick gets it this year and that is not to say there isn't any other deserving players for this award. Simply put, Nick has been just steady as ever and could even get a few considerations as a top 10 player in the league type scenario (if there such an award to give). Number 7 is coming right up Posted Image Good call, GMR.
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#82 wingslogo19

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 09:23 AM

I'd have to say that Lidstrom is the lead candidate for taking the Norris this year
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#83 P. Marlowe

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 09:29 AM

Lidström still has been great offensively, especially on PP when what matters most is his ability to read the play and his accurate passes and shots. It's not so much about moving fast. I think his low +/- is the result of his legs not being what they used to be. When opposing team scores during even strength goals he often seems to be near, but just a wee bit late. Perhaps it's also that he doesn't have the speed anymore to participate on offensive rushes like he used to. In 82 games 10 more goals by opposing team and 10 less goals by your team makes your +/- zero instead of +20.

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#84 Doc Holliday

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 09:33 AM

If the writers honestly use the +/- as a means to keep Lidstrom from winning it, I'll be shocked. The team in general has a low +/- overall (Datsyuk leads with a +13) and even Zetterberg has a minus season at the moment. In fact there are 10 players on Boston that have a higher +/- than Datsyuk.

Also let's not forget that Lidstrom's +/- has never been consistent for more than two years. Are the writers going to imply that his even strength/defensive play wavered that much season to season?

Edited by Doc Holliday, 05 April 2011 - 09:39 AM.

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#85 Mabuhay Red Wings

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 09:35 AM

First of all...

Just my Patrick Kane...


:hysterical:

Lidström still has been great offensively, especially on PP when what matters most is his ability to read the play and his accurate passes and shots. It's not so much about moving fast. I think his low +/- is the result of his legs not being what they used to be. When opposing team scores during even strength goals he often seems to be near, but just a wee bit late. Perhaps it's also that he doesn't have the speed anymore to participate on offensive rushes like he used to. In 82 games 10 more goals by opposing team and 10 less goals by your team makes your +/- zero instead of +20.


I actually think his plus/minus isn't as high this year because he had to adjust to having guys like Filppula, Bertuzzi and Franzen as his defensive forwards instead of Datsyuk and Zetterberg. It just seemed as though Datsyuk and Zetterberg didn't spend much time playing on the ice with Lidstrom as they had in the past. I don't know exactly why. It might be because of the whole mission to reduce Nick's ice time. But I think it's a bit of an adjustment if you go from having an elite level defensive forward like Pav and Hank to Fil and Bert, who aren't on the same level.

#86 P. Marlowe

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 09:48 AM

:hysterical:


Thank you, thank you. You're a great crowd.

I actually think his plus/minus isn't as high this year because he had to adjust to having guys like Filppula, Bertuzzi and Franzen as his defensive forwards instead of Datsyuk and Zetterberg. It just seemed as though Datsyuk and Zetterberg didn't spend much time playing on the ice with Lidstrom as they had in the past. I don't know exactly why. It might be because of the whole mission to reduce Nick's ice time. But I think it's a bit of an adjustment if you go from having an elite level defensive forward like Pav and Hank to Fil and Bert, who aren't on the same level.


Good point. Lidström's played most of his career behind top forward units, but this season Babcock has been saving him for the playoffs. Kronwall, Stuart and some nights even Ericsson has had more ice time than the captain.

I think his lowly +/- is the result of many things combined. I haven't paid that close attention to make a perfect analysis. There just seems to have been quite a few of these strange situations where opposing forward have skated with the puck around Lidström and right in front of Wings goal.

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#87 mmamolo

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 09:56 AM

Just my Patrick Kane...

I also had to mention that this is absolutely hilarious...
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#88 Opie

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 10:10 AM

Just my Patrick Kane...


First off:




I think in a year like this where there is no stand out candidate it becomes an award given on "outside merit".

For example, sometimes awards are given as more of a life time achievement than on the true merits of the award.
Sometimes they are given to right past wrongs.

I think this year Lids gets it because he is one of the best in the game still, and this would cement his name in the record books with Doug Harvey. Could be his last year (I personally don't think so), give it to him he deserves it, and to tell you the truth, who is the better defenseman in the league right now?

Yandle or Visnovsky? Would you say either of those guys is decidedly better than lids?
Chara? doubt it, he is not getting any votes out of the Mon area.

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#89 Nev

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 11:20 AM

Lidström still has been great offensively, especially on PP when what matters most is his ability to read the play and his accurate passes and shots. It's not so much about moving fast. I think his low +/- is the result of his legs not being what they used to be. When opposing team scores during even strength goals he often seems to be near, but just a wee bit late. Perhaps it's also that he doesn't have the speed anymore to participate on offensive rushes like he used to. In 82 games 10 more goals by opposing team and 10 less goals by your team makes your +/- zero instead of +20.


Glad I'm not the only one to notice this.



I think in a year like this where there is no stand out candidate it becomes an award given on "outside merit".

For example, sometimes awards are given as more of a life time achievement than on the true merits of the award.
Sometimes they are given to right past wrongs


Yep, its like Return of the King won a bazillion Oscars, not because it was so much better than the other 2, but because the academy went "holy crap, this trilogy is unprecedented in what its achieved." If Lidstrom does win it, consider it a payback for all the years in the 90s when he was just as brilliant but everyone had yet to appreciate his quiet, unassuming brilliance.
"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#90 brett

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 03:01 PM

yeah he wins it

#91 egroen

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 10:39 PM

Chara's already robbed Lidstrom of one Norris, I'm not sure he will rob him of another.
There will be a spread this year - for Chara, Weber, Visnovsky, Yandle, Letang - but I think/hope those votes will cancel each other out with Lidstrom not needing a clear majority to win it. He is a definite choice for votes, whether 1st, 2nd or 3rd - while the others will be all over the board.
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#92 CaliWingsNut

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 11:17 PM

Chara's already robbed Lidstrom of one Norris, I'm not sure he will rob him of another.
There will be a spread this year - for Chara, Weber, Visnovsky, Yandle, Letang - but I think/hope those votes will cancel each other out with Lidstrom not needing a clear majority to win it. He is a definite choice for votes, whether 1st, 2nd or 3rd - while the others will be all over the board.


If the NY Reporters don't vote (Snow showing what a great GM he is again) it will most likely help his chances.

Edited by CaliWingsNut, 05 April 2011 - 11:18 PM.

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#93 HankthaTank

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 08:31 AM

freep

This includes Sports Illustrated's Michael Farber, who has Red Wings captain Nicklas Lidstrom at the top of one of his lists.

But it's not for the Norris Trophy.


Instead of awarding Lidstrom a seventh Norris Trophy (Farber has Nashville's Shea Weber at the top of his ballot, followed by Boston's Zdeno Chara and then Lidstrom), the writer has Lidstrom No. 1 in his race for the Lady Byng Trophy.


Not that this guy is the only voter or anything but I sure wonder how many more will lean this way.
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#94 Doc Holliday

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 08:53 AM

freep


Not that this guy is the only voter or anything but I sure wonder how many more will lean this way.


Hurts his credibility when he lists Malhotra as his Selke winner.

Also how can two defensemen who are playing in front of the 1st and 2nd Vezina favorites considered as the favorites for the Norris?

For starters, Chara has been a great shutdown defenseman, but this year and the year he won his Norris his stats were padded by having the best goaltender in the league behind him.

Second, Nashville fans have the general consensus that Suter is the better all around defenseman on the team as opposed to Weber, whose main draw is his booming shot and physicality. Both of them play in front of Pekka freaking Rinne, another top 3 Vezina nominee.

Lidstrom plays in front of Jimmy Howard, a goaltender who will not even get a sniff at the Vezina and has been shaky at times on the Wings. The team defense in itself has been terrible, where Justin Abdelkader is a +15 (the highest on the team) and Zetterberg is a -1.

The voters can't get past the minus number? They obviously cannot bother to analyze the play and context behind each defensemen's stats and would rather pick the defenseman with the most recent hype and sexiest "defensive" stats.

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#95 HankthaTank

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 08:59 AM

Hurts his credibility when he lists Malhotra as his Selke winner.

Also how can two defensemen who are playing in front of the 1st and 2nd Vezina favorites considered as the favorites for the Norris?

For starters, Chara has been a great shutdown defenseman, but this year and the year he won his Norris his stats were padded by having the best goaltender in the league behind him.

Second, Nashville fans have the general consensus that Suter is the better all around defenseman on the team as opposed to Weber, whose main draw is his booming shot and physicality. Both of them play in front of Pekka freaking Rinne, another top 3 Vezina nominee.

Lidstrom plays in front of Jimmy Howard, a goaltender who will not even get a sniff at the Vezina and has been shaky at times on the Wings. The team defense in itself has been terrible, where Justin Abdelkader is a +15 (the highest on the team) and Zetterberg is a -1.

The voters can't get past the minus number? They obviously cannot bother to analyze the play and context behind each defensemen's stats and would rather pick the defenseman with the most recent hype and sexiest "defensive" stats.

Excellent points on all of that. I also think Suter is the better ALL-AROUND defenseman and won't even get a single vote or nomination. Having watched all of the games this year and seeing how Nick would make some of the simplest of plays that most fans don't notice, I tend to wonder what the writers look at myself. The stats and everything still lean his way aside from the +/- which could drop him a tad unfortunately. Overall though, Nick was the team's MVP and should be the Norris winner given what was around him. We can only hope those with votes think as rational as this.
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#96 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 12:57 PM

Hurts his credibility when he lists Malhotra as his Selke winner.

Also how can two defensemen who are playing in front of the 1st and 2nd Vezina favorites considered as the favorites for the Norris?

For starters, Chara has been a great shutdown defenseman, but this year and the year he won his Norris his stats were padded by having the best goaltender in the league behind him.

Second, Nashville fans have the general consensus that Suter is the better all around defenseman on the team as opposed to Weber, whose main draw is his booming shot and physicality. Both of them play in front of Pekka freaking Rinne, another top 3 Vezina nominee.

Lidstrom plays in front of Jimmy Howard, a goaltender who will not even get a sniff at the Vezina and has been shaky at times on the Wings. The team defense in itself has been terrible, where Justin Abdelkader is a +15 (the highest on the team) and Zetterberg is a -1.

The voters can't get past the minus number? They obviously cannot bother to analyze the play and context behind each defensemen's stats and would rather pick the defenseman with the most recent hype and sexiest "defensive" stats.


this is all bang on. couldn't have said it better myself. howard has been the most inconsistent goalie in the league this year. lids +/- directly reflects howards inconsistency and drops with the softies he lets in. chara and weber/suter don't have this problem.

therefore, lids wins the norris and lady byng. norris for great play, and the lady byng for not publically hanging howard and whacking him like a pinata.

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#97 Mabuhay Red Wings

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 02:26 PM


A Study of Lidstrom's Plus/Minus Rating
http://www.wingingit...ating?ref=yahoo





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