Penguins sign Arron Asham

[Guest Heaten]

Are you aware that there are people in this world that have a severe medical condition which causes them to be that way? My mother for instance is one of those people. She is a truck driver that has bad knees and a bad back from driving the truck but you probably do not care about that case either. Oh well I am not one of those people I am 6'4" 245lbs and I exercise every day. I would love to see you say something like to my mother in front of me. Probably never happen though you are probably just an internet tough guy. I doubt very seriously you would say that to someones face. Just my thought.What do you think. Oh I am sorry you probably do not have a brain. I on the other hand will be happy to buy you a plane ticket to come here and see if you have the nerve to say that to someone I know.

Lol.

Stay classy

[Original-Six 254]

7 pages of rage over a grinder?

Oh and btw the only reason he signed for so cheap was because he wanted to stay close to Philly.....He wasn't coming here for that price.

Edited August 22, 2010 by Original-Six

[SwedeLundin77 460]

So solid 4th line = fighting?

You're mixing concepts in a major way. We have a very solid 4th line. Eaves Abds Helm. Probably one of the best 4th lines in the league. Twice as good as Pittsburgh's 4th line.

This. These people who just ASSUME that the front office is stupid to not inquire about players are real idiots. Holland has been known to kick over every rock and look at EVERY player. Someone already said that Asham wanted to say in the PA area. So we didn't get a 4th liner that can muck it up a tad and put a few points up. We have probably the best 4th line in the league. Does it fight? Not really, but will it roll over? No. Eaves, Helm, and Abdelkader are all gritty players, they will cause problems for other teams by working their asses off. I'd rather have that then worry about fighting. It's such a stupid argument. We are so horrible, must be why we have won all these cups and have been a successful team for the past 2 decades. Stop acting like Asham would have been our savior, cause he wouldn't have been. We don't have the room on our roster for him anyway, so it's a moot argument.

Stop assuming everything and start being smart about what you say.

[titanium2 867]

Lol.

Stay classy

I'm not even sure what the hell he's talking about.

[cjm502 165]

I'm not even sure what the hell he's talking about.

I tried to figure it out, and came out with nothing.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I'd be interested in reading the archives of what you wrote about Zetterberg's contract. Wonder what kind of double standard I'd find. Oh, and you also forgot to mention that Drapes is a vocal leader on the team. His contributions goes much beyond his on ice performance. Draper hasn't been on the "gravy train" since he re-signed. I remember him being a piece of the Stanley Cup championship in 08. ...Oh how quick we forget.

How much of Draper's 1.6 cap is overpaid? Enough to keep us from re-signing our stars? Nope, they are all locked up. Does his contract keep the Red Wings from winning the cup or making the SCF? Nope, Wings did that back-to-back.

Drapers contract is a bit overpaid now, but not enough to hamper the team. I'm not going to cry or fuss about it, Drapes helped Red Wings win lots of cups.. can't ***** about that.

The Wings don't need a vocal leader who doesn't contribute much on the ice. That's called the coaching staff.

yes, I think Draper's 4 points in the 08 playoffs are what put us over the top. He certainly contributed more then than he does now. But I'm not quickly forgetting. If you read my post, I said his contract fit his contributions in 08. But you're trying to justify his current pay for things he's done in the past. That's a pretty good example of why it's a bad contract. They signed him for too much or too long.

You're grasping at straws now with nonsensical arguments. Did his contract keep the Wings from making it to the SCF? who knows? how could you ever prove that? Maybe it kept them from winning their second Cup? prove it didn't. The point isn't to pick specific players that his contract has prevented us from getting. That's all speculation. I don't see how you can look at his role on the team these last few seasons and think he's worth that money.

But god forbid someone criticize Red Wings management. This thread started not even so much as criticism, but more, "would've been nice to have him" until all the cheerleaders jumped in.

Edited August 22, 2010 by haroldsnepsts

[Original-Six 254]

I tried to figure it out, and came out with nothing.

Im going to say troll on the grounds of trying to create confusion by not making any sense.

[titanium2 867]

If you had to pick a skilled line to be within your bottom six, would you rather have Hudler-Modano-Cleary of 2010 or Robitaille-Larionov-Holmstrom of 2002?

[Guest PatKaneInHumane]

Lol.

Stay classy

I'm not even sure what the hell he's talking about.

I tried to figure it out, and came out with nothing.

Heaten orginally made a post about Asham skating like a gimp, which he has since edited to hide his ignorance. In addition, he stated that Draper's 1.6 million was chump change, and that any "non-poor" person would see it the same way as he. I'm sorry that I live a modest life Heaten, but lets try to keep this board civil. Money can be nice, but I tend to judge people on character, not their paychecks.

[Buppy 1,720]

The Wings don't need a vocal leader who doesn't contribute much on the ice. That's called the coaching staff.

yes, I think Draper's 4 points in the 08 playoffs are what put us over the top. He certainly contributed more then than he does now. But I'm not quickly forgetting. If you read my post, I said his contract fit his contributions in 08. But you're trying to justify his current pay for things he's done in the past. That's a pretty good example of why it's a bad contract. They signed him for too much or too long.

You're grasping at straws now with nonsensical arguments. Did his contract keep the Wings from making it to the SCF? who knows? how could you ever prove that? Maybe it kept them from winning their second Cup? prove it didn't. The point isn't to pick specific players that his contract has prevented us from getting. That's all speculation. I don't see how you can look at his role on the team these last few seasons and think he's worth that money.

But god forbid someone criticize Red Wings management. This thread started not even so much as criticism, but more, "would've been nice to have him" until all the cheerleaders jumped in.

Actually, it started with 'this sucks' and it's 'worse than getting Williams instead of Prospal'. Little over the top.

And no one's saying management is above criticism. Some of us just think Modano is better for the team than Asham would be. Stop acting like your being repressed. We all have our opinions, all we're doing is discussing them. (Though I would say, as a general rule, Holland does a lot better managing the roster than any of us would, but that's beside the point.)

In regards to Draper, I'll say that it's easy to judge a contract in hindsight. Sure, we could probably replace his value for half (or less) the cost, and possibly use that savings to improve somewhere else. His off-ice contributions might not be missed. Nor, I think, would our reputation for treating our players well have suffered had we not resigned Draper (or given him less money, or term). Oh well. No roster in any sport has ever been perfect. Unless you can point out some example that would make us a notably better team without Draper's contract, then it's pointless to complain about it. But I don't think you can get a difference-maker with his salary. At best you're looking at a marginal improvement in the bottom lines. Wow.

Draper has been a valuable member of this franchise for many years, we wouldn't be that much better off without him, so why complain? It's not like we spent $5.6M on a FA goalie whose resume was basically one good 13 game stretch (and we're now risking our reputation by ungraciously disposing of him).

[Shaman 713]

Are you aware that there are people in this world that have a severe medical condition which causes them to be that way? My mother for instance is one of those people. She is a truck driver that has bad knees and a bad back from driving the truck but you probably do not care about that case either. Oh well I am not one of those people I am 6'4" 245lbs and I exercise every day. I would love to see you say something like to my mother in front of me. Probably never happen though you are probably just an internet tough guy. I doubt very seriously you would say that to someones face. Just my thought.What do you think. Oh I am sorry you probably do not have a brain. I on the other hand will be happy to buy you a plane ticket to come here and see if you have the nerve to say that to someone I know.

Your mother is lazy and she sucks.

If you can't tell this is a jab at the whole 'you are internet kid i kick your ass trolling' that has no place in this thread, by me cleverly using a LGW meme.

As for Asham, I don't see how what he adds is so prolific it would be better than what would be lost. Hitting/fight ≠ scoring. Sorry, but at the end of the night its about who scored more goals, not who won more fights or had more big hits.

Edited August 22, 2010 by Shaman464

[Tommy_Like_Wingy 25]

Are you aware that there are people in this world that have a severe medical condition which causes them to be that way? My mother for instance is one of those people. She is a truck driver that has bad knees and a bad back from driving the truck but you probably do not care about that case either. Oh well I am not one of those people I am 6'4" 245lbs and I exercise every day. I would love to see you say something like to my mother in front of me. Probably never happen though you are probably just an internet tough guy. I doubt very seriously you would say that to someones face. Just my thought.What do you think. Oh I am sorry you probably do not have a brain. I on the other hand will be happy to buy you a plane ticket to come here and see if you have the nerve to say that to someone I know.

lol aware

Miscers are everywhere.

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

lol aware

Miscers are everywhere.

Come at me bro.

[Tommy_Like_Wingy 25]

Come at me bro.

What the...I don't even...

[Guest Heaten]

The Wings don't need a vocal leader who doesn't contribute much on the ice. That's called the coaching staff.

yes, I think Draper's 4 points in the 08 playoffs are what put us over the top. He certainly contributed more then than he does now. But I'm not quickly forgetting. If you read my post, I said his contract fit his contributions in 08. But you're trying to justify his current pay for things he's done in the past. That's a pretty good example of why it's a bad contract. They signed him for too much or too long.

You're grasping at straws now with nonsensical arguments. Did his contract keep the Wings from making it to the SCF? who knows? how could you ever prove that? Maybe it kept them from winning their second Cup? prove it didn't. The point isn't to pick specific players that his contract has prevented us from getting. That's all speculation. I don't see how you can look at his role on the team these last few seasons and think he's worth that money.

But god forbid someone criticize Red Wings management. This thread started not even so much as criticism, but more, "would've been nice to have him" until all the cheerleaders jumped in.

Seriously? When the team wins the Stanley Cup, every player is an important piece to that victory. Surprised you can't understand that. /facepalm

With that kind of logic, what are you going to say if Red Wings win the cup next year? "erm...gee wiz, Modano only scored 4 goals, Holland made a bad decision signing him instead of Asham", [...] "Slappies are always here cheerleading Holland after he builds cup winning championship teams, they don't understand that Holland should have signed 'Asham instead'"

btw, Dallas Drake only scored 4 points, guess he wasn't a piece of the 08 cup victory either? (by your logic)

I don't see how you can look at his role on the team these last few seasons and think he's worth that money.

I said that? Really? Lets dig back to.... page 5:

Yes Draper's contract is bad now. He's overpaid by $600-$700 yr. However, in 2007/08 his contract was brilliant. Same thing will be said about Zetterberg and Franzen in 5-6 years.

The Wings don't need a vocal leader who doesn't contribute much on the ice. That's called the coaching staff.

"Draper's a leader for us with his energy level and his commitment," Red Wings coach Mike Babcock said. - But let me guess, Babcock doesn't have the hockey intelligence as you? Can't wait to read the excuses trying to discredit this one...

You're grasping at straws now with nonsensical arguments.

Says the guy with poor reading comprehension skills. Says the guy who discredits Draper 3 goals and 4 points in the 08 playoffs (despite lifting the cup), while Drake had the same number of points that same run, Gasp! I'll say it again so maybe it'll sink in... When the team wins the Stanley Cup, every player is an important part to that victory.

Edited August 22, 2010 by Heaten

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

When the team wins the Stanley Cup, every player is an important part to that victory.

Adam Burrish? Is that you? Adam?

Edited August 22, 2010 by EZBAKETHAGANGSTA

[titanium2 867]

iirc Asham wanted to stay in PA/near Philly.

Where did you hear that? Any chance you got a link?

[esteef 2,679]

As for Asham, I don't see how what he adds is so prolific it would be better than what would be lost. Hitting/fight ≠ scoring. Sorry, but at the end of the night its about who scored more goals, not who won more fights or had more big hits.

And there it is. It's just that simple folks, fill our team with nothing but scorers and the Cup is ours!

esteef

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Actually, it started with 'this sucks' and it's 'worse than getting Williams instead of Prospal'. Little over the top.

And no one's saying management is above criticism. Some of us just think Modano is better for the team than Asham would be. Stop acting like your being repressed. We all have our opinions, all we're doing is discussing them. (Though I would say, as a general rule, Holland does a lot better managing the roster than any of us would, but that's beside the point.)

In regards to Draper, I'll say that it's easy to judge a contract in hindsight. Sure, we could probably replace his value for half (or less) the cost, and possibly use that savings to improve somewhere else. His off-ice contributions might not be missed. Nor, I think, would our reputation for treating our players well have suffered had we not resigned Draper (or given him less money, or term). Oh well. No roster in any sport has ever been perfect. Unless you can point out some example that would make us a notably better team without Draper's contract, then it's pointless to complain about it. But I don't think you can get a difference-maker with his salary. At best you're looking at a marginal improvement in the bottom lines. Wow.

Draper has been a valuable member of this franchise for many years, we wouldn't be that much better off without him, so why complain? It's not like we spent $5.6M on a FA goalie whose resume was basically one good 13 game stretch (and we're now risking our reputation by ungraciously disposing of him).

I'm not acting like I'm being repressed. There's actually been some good conversations going on in here, like between GMR and mindfly.

Speaking only for myself, sure it would've been nice to pick up Asham for 700k. But I'm not saying he's getting the Wings to the Cup or it's an either or situation with Modano. It's all the people jumping into the thread who've made it that. There's a pretty large gap between saying you'd want a player on the team and that player would make the difference in winning the Cup.

But that's a common argument for shooting it down. "xxxx player is not going to be the difference to get the Wings to the Cup."

And the prevailing argument has also become "do you know more than Holland?" Of course none of us know more about running a franchise than Holland. But it's about being a fan of the team. Analyzing and overanalyzing every move and throwing our two cents in. That's why this forum exists.

The Draper thing was really an aside which has derailed this thread even more. As I said, I'm a big Draper fan, but Holland was overly optimistic about his contributions to the team when he signed that contract. Or maybe he didn't have enough faith in kids like Helm to replace him.

Edited August 22, 2010 by haroldsnepsts

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Seriously? When the team wins the Stanley Cup, every player is an important piece to that victory. Surprised you can't understand that. /facepalm

With that kind of logic, what are you going to say if Red Wings win the cup next year? "erm...gee wiz, Modano only scored 4 goals, Holland made a bad decision signing him instead of Asham", [...] "Slappies are always here cheerleading Holland after he builds cup winning championship teams, they don't understand that Holland should have signed 'Asham instead'"

btw, Dallas Drake only scored 4 points, guess he wasn't a piece of the 08 cup victory either? (by your logic)

First off, no every player isn't important to a Cup victory. It's great if they are, but typically there's a couple guys at least who weren't difference makers.

Second, that's called sarcasm, sport. My very next sentence I refer back to where I said Drapes was earning his contract in '08.

"Draper's a leader for us with his energy level and his commitment," Red Wings coach Mike Babcock said. - But let me guess, Babcock doesn't have the hockey intelligence as you? Can't wait to read the excuses trying to discredit this one...

And there it is. One quote from Babcock, so how could we ever question the Wings??

You keep talking about how that extra money couldn't have gotten the Wings anyone else. The Wings are tight against the cap. Maybe you don't understand how the cap works, but it's not like any money saved from Drapes contract would have to be used one to one for another player. It's about the total cap space, and I bet Holland would love to have every dollar he could get to work with.

I said that? Really? Lets dig back to.... page 5:

Blink indeed. So you're saying his contract was "brilliant" then, but he's overpaid now? That doesn't make a lick of sense. How can the same contract be brilliant and overpaid?

Again, if you had read what I previously wrote, I said a contract should be evaluated on its full term. Not just on a season by season basis. Because of course these guys are going to be worth it on the front end.

Says the guy with poor reading comprehension skills. Says the guy who discredits Draper 3 goals and 4 points in the 08 playoffs (despite lifting the cup), while Drake had the same number of points that same run, Gasp! I'll say it again so maybe it'll sink in... When the team wins the Stanley Cup, every player is an important part to that victory.

That's pretty ironic considering you missed that I was kidding. Read the sentences directly after the one about Drapers points.

You're great at putting words in my mouth and inventing arguments so you can shoot them down.

Edited August 22, 2010 by haroldsnepsts

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Harold, the reason people got into an 8 page argument was because a certain poster said that the asham signing sucked, that he would have been a "terrific" addition, and that this was comparable to signing Williams last year when we could have had Prospal or Grier.

In my opinion this isn't even close to any of those things.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Harold, the reason people got into an 8 page argument was because a certain poster said that the asham signing sucked, that he would have been a "terrific" addition, and that this was comparable to signing Williams last year when we could have had Prospal or Grier.

In my opinion this isn't even close to any of those things.

It started that way, but then that poster actually got into a civil discussion about the lineup, in my opinion.

Most of this thread has not been about what you've just said, that it actually isn't like those signings. I think that would've been a pretty short discussion.

EDIT: and to be honest, I'm sure there's an element of all of us turning on each other out of boredom waiting for the season to start, when there's really stuff to fight about.

Edited August 22, 2010 by haroldsnepsts

[Rivalred 630]

As far as the Draper comments, Helm is slowly and surely replacing him. Speed, two-way play, face-off ability, and etc are all there. Drapes will be phased out like Malts (given Miller/Eaves replacing him).

Asham signing? Good deal for the Pens. Question is, is Asham any good at taking face-offs?

[Shaman 713]

And there it is. It's just that simple folks, fill our team with nothing but scorers and the Cup is ours!

esteef

Hey, remember that one time that one fight over came a 2 goal lead because that one guy just thoroughly kicked the other guys ass? I don't either.

In a game that is WON by having MORE goals than the other team. A fight is a spectacle, any gains or losses in momentum that it causes is purely intangible, where as addition of scoring depth is a tangible addition, that in the end of the game, can be measured, and does have direct impact on the end results of the game.

[esteef 2,679]

Hey, remember that one time that one fight over came a 2 goal lead because that one guy just thoroughly kicked the other guys ass? I don't either.

In a game that is WON by having MORE goals than the other team. A fight is a spectacle, any gains or losses in momentum that it causes is purely intangible, where as addition of scoring depth is a tangible addition, that in the end of the game, can be measured, and does have direct impact on the end results of the game.

Stanley Cup winning goals:

1996-97 - Darren McCarty

1997-98 - Martin LaPointe

2001-02 - Brandan Shanahan

Yep, I guess fighting players are useless.

esteef