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Penguins sign Arron Asham


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#81 Andy Pred 48

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 12:41 AM

Asham for $700k is a good bit of business on the Pens part. Eaves for $750k is good business for the Wings.
Was Asham asking for this amount all along? Its what he was on last year at Philly, and after such a good
year surely he'd be looking for a raise......? Maybe he had to take the same as no one has offered him more
and beside's he is 32 and the Wings have a younger and bigger version in Abdelkader. Asham would only hinder
our 4th line as he wouldn't be able to keep up with his line mates, Eaves,Draper,Helm, Miller and Abby are all
very good skaters, not so sure Asham is in the same class, so he wouldn't necessaraly fit in with our system.
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#82 Heaten

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 12:55 AM

Geniuses make mistakes too. Last year those geniuses brought back Williams. Holland is the best GM in hockey, but he isn't perfect.

And I don't base my arguments on what the majority believes. If anyone on LGW does that, they should not be allowed to post here. I don't care if my opinion is in the minority as long as it's my opinion. I've posted my opinion on this tonight. That's all I'm here for.


Holland should have foreseen Williams was going to break his leg and not recover in time to be productive. A perfect GM would have anticipated all the injuries before the season kicked off.

A mistake would have been signing yet another (seventh) 4th liner instead of building the best 3rd line in the league. But you're right, as unwillingly as you are to understand that Holland put together the best possible winning team without losing assets, you still have the right to your own opinion.

Like I said, in the forward position and depth, Red Wings are unmatched in every category. Signing Asham over Modano would have proved to be the the perfect example of "geniuses make mistakes too".

In an earlier post you said that you would take Asham over Maltby, Draper and Miller. Just curious, who would you propose to trade to fit him on the 4th line? Abdelkader? Eaves? or Helm? My golly, Wings look pretty damn good on the 4th line even without your old 4th line "savior".

Do you even understand what your argument is?

#83 Booster313

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 01:09 AM

Those that are complaining are idiots... The Wings would prefer to spend their dollars that are going to go to a play with minmal offensive skill, and the ability to fight to a nice stay at homes defensmeb. As far as the Wings go Salei will get way more ice time than any 4th line enforcer ever would. Real toughness comes from the checks.
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#84 Wings4Life19

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 01:23 AM

Modano and Hudler will produce offensively, but I'm really doubting their defensive play..


Modano is a career +118, thats better than Fetisov, Larionov,and Robitaille

Hudler is a career +33, thats better than Filppula, and Ryan Kesler

but your right, they are defensive liabilities :ph34r:

Edited by Wings4Life19, 21 August 2010 - 01:24 AM.


#85 Buppy

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 02:06 AM

I've said all along that several of those current 4th liners you refer to shouldn't be here, thus freeing up some money. Asham is a good hitter, a hard worker and has shown scoring touch in the past. That's not easy to find on the 4th line, especially from a guy that can fight occasionally. He's not just a fighter, or else I'd spend the whole thread explaining how we should sign Downey instead of Asham.

As for Modano, he's a better player than Asham, but like I said above, I'm not so sure that he's a good fit on the 3rd line. He doesn't check or play defense, and that makes two with him and Hudler. We've always had checkers and defensive forwards on our 3rd lines in past Cup wins. I think Helm, Hudler and Cleary would have been a better fit on the 3rd line overall. This isn't a video game where you can just load up scorers on every line.

Also, Asham would have a better future here than Modano, who's only here for one year. Isn't that important? A guy we can rely on to fill in on the 4th line for several years.

Maybe I'm wrong about Modano's overall contribution to a Cup chase, but I feel like he's not as good a fit as people think he'll be. It's not a role I see Modano being great at, and it's a one shot deal.

Which 4th liners? I'd take him over Draper, but that's not an option. I'd take him over Maltby and Downey, but they're not on the team. One of Miller or Ritola already needs to be moved. (Miller hopefully) I wouldn't want to lose Ritola for someone like Asham. Nor would I give up Eaves, Helm, or Abby. And besides, your argument has been that we should have gotten Asham instead of Modano, so the 4th liners have nothing to do with that.

Asham is 32, he probably only has a few productive years left. He doesn't really have the talent to stick around all that long, unless you want a repeat of Draper/Maltby and keep him around past his usefulness. And again, he's not so special a player that we can't get someone similar next year. Hell, he'll be a FA next summer himself.

Again, we have plenty of forwards to handle defensive duty. We have an excellent checking line already in Abby-Helm-Eaves. Our top line will feature two of the best defensive forwards in the game. Flip and Franzen are solid defensively. Move Cleary to that line and you have a third high-end defensive unit if we need it. Modano is not a bad defensive forward either. Asham is not so prolific a hitter that the team will suffer for not having him. The difference between Asham and Modano amounts to around 1 hit per game. Hardly worth talking about, especially when we'd be sacrificing scoring to get it.

The question isn't if Modano or Asham is better. Most will agree that Modano is the better player. However, the Wings have Eaves, Miller, and Ritola signed for this year. The real question is if Asham would be better for the team than any of these players. I believe he would because of the dimension he brings (that the Wings lack).

This discussion is irrelevant though. Most fans (and GMs with room) would welcome Asham for 700k. The Pens made a good move here IMO.

GMR's argument is that Asham is a better 'fit' than Modano. That's where the comparisons are coming from.

And yeah, Asham at $700k is a fine deal, and most GMs would like it. But most teams don't already have 15 forwards. We do. If we had an open spot on the roster and passed on Asham to negotiate with Maltby this thread would have a point. But that's not the case. We need to get rid of one forward already, our regular lineup is already set (or will be once we get Abby signed). I wouldn't take Asham over any one of the 12 forwards projected to be our regulars. Taking him over Draper isn't an option, and I would rather see what Ritola can do before we give him up. That's 14 forwards, no room for Asham.

Worst case scenario is we keep Miller over Ritola for the last forward spot. I suppose I'd rather have Asham, but not so much that I'd really care about it.

I didn't even want Modano in the first place and still don't really care about him. (Though I admit it's grown on me a bit, from all the optimism around here.) My main point was that this is a silly thing to complain about, since it would be a largely irrelevant move. Best case would be we lose out on a little scoring, gain a little hitting and fighting. Pretty meaningless tradeoff to get upset over.

#86 mindfly

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 07:58 AM

I agree with GMR. Modano does give us depth and a legit OFFENSIVE 3rd line, but bottom 6 guys have to be defensively responsible, which aren't Modano and Hudler's best attributes. The thing that gets me is that in the beginnin of the offseason, all everyone was talking about was getting younger and Kenny goes out and brings in Modano and Salei..I think the defense is gonna be our Achilles heel again this year. Modano and Hudler will produce offensively, but I'm really doubting their defensive play..

But then again in 2009 they reached the final with offense alone and lost in game7 if they just improve the defense a bit from that team in ONE game they could win... theoretically speaking.

#87 ShanahanMan

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 08:09 AM

GMR has hit the nail right on the head. Asham is someone the Wings really could have used.....a gritty, tough player who can also put up points. Instead, we sign a past-his-prime unnecessary player in the likes of Modano for more than twice the price and then offer Downey a try-out. Really boggles the mind. Asham was a presence our 4th line definitely needed.


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#88 SouthernWingsFan

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 08:23 AM

GMR has hit the nail right on the head. Asham is someone the Wings really could have used.....a gritty, tough player who can also put up points. Instead, we sign a past-his-prime unnecessary player in the likes of Modano for more than twice the price and then offer Downey a try-out. Really boggles the mind. Asham was a presence our 4th line definitely needed.

It doesn't boggle the mind as much as you and GMR and other company want to believe.

Did Asham even want to play here from minute one? You don't know that, nobody does. And the 4th line, as stated, is probably going to be solid with energy/grit and hopefully some offense in some form of Eaves, Abdelkader, Helm, etc.

Would Asham have been nice? Sure. But it's not something to lose sleep over like you all are perceiving, which is why reactions like yours and GMR's are so hilarious to this.

#89 mindfly

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 09:25 AM

Anyone good at math or so? This possible lineup was set up just recently, as an alternative to the current one by a wings fan who would have liked to see a different lineup

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmström
Hudler-Flippula-Franzen
Bertuzzi-Helm-Cleary
Asham-Abdelkader-Eaves

Lidas-Rafalski
Kronwall-Stuart
Ericsson-Sutton

Don't sign Modano and Salei, sign Sutton for that 2.15M deal he got in anaheim and Asham for that 700k
How would that turn out cap wise? Modano and Salei equals them when the bonuses are added up right?

Personally I just dont like the offensive power from the third line, helm got no hands and bertuzzi woul look lost on that one, but who knows

Edited by mindfly, 21 August 2010 - 09:26 AM.


#90 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 09:55 AM

Maybe he just didn't want to play here like I said earlier.

As for our current options. I like him more than Maltby and Draper, both of whom are not as good as our younger options. I'd take him over a guy like Downey who we're giving another chance to at training camp. I'd probably take him over Miller, since Miller is basically a worse version of Eaves.

So in my book, he'd be a guy that should be on our 4th line. If he was ever an option that is. Don't know if Holland ever contacted him or not. I do know, however, that someone like Maltby shouldn't be getting offers over someone like Asham.

I agree. Asham would've been a nice little addition and for cheap.

In these threads about adding grit people always make the argument that guys who will hit, fight, and aren't total goons aren't out there to be had, at least not for cheap. Asham is a good example of a guy that was.

And I have to admire your dedication in this thread GMR, but it's a lost cause dude. If Holland had signed Asham, there would be a 20 page thread about how great the guy is and what a positive addition to the team he is. Because he signed elsewhere, most of what you're going to get is how Holland knows what he's doing and Asham is useless.

Obviously we don't know if Holland ever contacted him or Asham ever would've played here. But he's a guy who was had for cheap that would've made a team better. That seems worth commenting on. This place has become such a Red Wings cheerleading camp sometimes. Talking about this s*** doesn't mean you hate the Wings or think Holland is a bad GM. It's a hockey forum.

It's not like he was saying Holland was a terrible GM or the Wings suck. Just pointing out someone who was out there and being disappointed we didn't get him, when the argument is often made these guys don't exist or will cost too much.

Edited by haroldsnepsts, 21 August 2010 - 09:56 AM.


#91 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 10:09 AM

Holland should have foreseen Williams was going to break his leg and not recover in time to be productive. A perfect GM would have anticipated all the injuries before the season kicked off.

A mistake would have been signing yet another (seventh) 4th liner instead of building the best 3rd line in the league. But you're right, as unwillingly as you are to understand that Holland put together the best possible winning team without losing assets, you still have the right to your own opinion.

Like I said, in the forward position and depth, Red Wings are unmatched in every category. Signing Asham over Modano would have proved to be the the perfect example of "geniuses make mistakes too".

In an earlier post you said that you would take Asham over Maltby, Draper and Miller. Just curious, who would you propose to trade to fit him on the 4th line? Abdelkader? Eaves? or Helm? My golly, Wings look pretty damn good on the 4th line even without your old 4th line "savior".

Do you even understand what your argument is?

Do you even understand what his argument is?

I don't remember him calling Asham a savior. I've just seen him make a reasonable argument for how he would be a good addition to the 4th line and bring some aspects to it that it doesn't have.

People here keep acting like GMR is making a huge deal about this. Doesn't look like he is to me. Can we no longer be disappointed about not getting players we like to play for the Wings?

Instead you guys are exaggerating how upset he is in order to try and contradict his statements.

And let's be serious. The Williams signing was bad even without the leg break.

Edited by haroldsnepsts, 21 August 2010 - 10:13 AM.


#92 chrisdetroit

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 10:37 AM

Asham is a gritty, low scoring forward and is a career -34. In 11 seasons, he has had a positive +/- ONCE and that was in a year when he played 35 games.

Ok, he's gritty, got it but he doesn't score much (10 goals last year) and isn't good defensively. Also at age 32, he has no upside. What you see is what you get.

So why do people want him?
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#93 Heaten

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 10:39 AM

Do you even understand what his argument is?

I don't remember him calling Asham a savior. I've just seen him make a reasonable argument for how he would be a good addition to the 4th line and bring some aspects to it that it doesn't have.

People here keep acting like GMR is making a huge deal about this. Doesn't look like he is to me. Can we no longer be disappointed about not getting players we like to play for the Wings?

Instead you guys are exaggerating how upset he is in order to try and contradict his statements.

And let's be serious. The Williams signing was bad even without the leg break.


No, I don't understand his argument. It's nonsense and makes me question his hockey intelligence. Had Holland signed, yet, another 4th liner this offseason (to make a total of seven (7) 4th liners under contract), then I would question if Holland lost his mind and needs to be stripped from the GM position.

I was never a fan of Williams either, but in all fairness, he was coming off a 20 goal season on crappy teams, and is a right hand shot. He was suppose to have a specific role and broke his leg and never recovered. You obviously don't remember Babcock praising the Leino-Filppula-Williams line as our best line at the start of the season. Then injuries happened and everything fell apart and never recovered.

This forward linup looks week as hell, and we'd likely lose assets (Miller and Ritola, and Ritola may have some untapped upside, but lets throw that all away for a 32 yo 4th liner - Brilliant!):

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmström
Hudler-Flippula-Franzen
Bertuzzi-Helm-Cleary
Asham-Abdelkader-Eaves


The lineup below is unquestionably light years better than the above - If you like winning, then you need a winning team with depth:

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmström
Bertuzzi-Flippula-Franzen
Hudler-Modano-Cleary
Eaves-Abdelkader-Helm

Holland may still lose Ritola because we have too many 4th liners. LGW's solution, sign more 4th liners :blink:

Edited by Heaten, 21 August 2010 - 10:41 AM.


#94 mindfly

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 10:50 AM

No, I don't understand his argument. It's nonsense and makes me question his hockey intelligence. Had Holland signed, yet, another 4th liner this offseason (to make a total of seven (7) 4th liners under contract), then I would question if Holland lost his mind and needs to be stripped from the GM position.

I was never a fan of Williams either, but in all fairness, he was coming off a 20 goal season on crappy teams, and is a right hand shot. He was suppose to have a specific role and broke his leg and never recovered. You obviously don't remember Babcock praising the Leino-Filppula-Williams line as our best line at the start of the season. Then injuries happened and everything fell apart and never recovered.

This forward linup looks week as hell, and we'd likely lose assets (Miller and Ritola, and Ritola may have some untapped upside, but lets throw that all away for a 32 yo 4th liner - Brilliant!):

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmström
Hudler-Flippula-Franzen
Bertuzzi-Helm-Cleary
Asham-Abdelkader-Eaves


The lineup below is unquestionably light years better than the above - If you like winning, then you need a winning team with depth:

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmström
Bertuzzi-Flippula-Franzen
Hudler-Modano-Cleary
Eaves-Abdelkader-Helm

Holland may still lose Ritola because we have too many 4th liners. LGW's solution, sign more 4th liners :blink:


But you could have gotten Andy Sutton with that first group of forwards...which is the best.. better offense or better defense?

The first group of forwards have more sandpaper in the bottom six, but the one we currently have should be able to score more... so which team have the best chance of winning the cup...?

Edited by mindfly, 21 August 2010 - 10:52 AM.


#95 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 10:50 AM

Asham is a gritty, low scoring forward and is a career -34. In 11 seasons, he has had a positive +/- ONCE and that was in a year when he played 35 games.

Ok, he's gritty, got it but he doesn't score much (10 goals last year) and isn't good defensively. Also at age 32, he has no upside. What you see is what you get.

So why do people want him?

This is getting blown out of proportion by all the people condemning this thread.

Modano is 40. He has no upside either. But hopefully he'll bring something this season. Same could be said for Asham for a couple seasons. Modano was a -6, -13, and -11 his last three seasons. Helms is a career -11 in 3 seasons in the NHL.

I'm not saying this is an either or situation between two players. But the aspects you mention aren't enough to rule a guy out.

I don't think anyone really thinks Asham would make or break the Wings. But he's a guy who was had cheap who brings some elements the Wings could use.

That's it. cheap signing. good player for the money. Maybe would've been nice to see him on the 4th line. Didn't happen. Oh well.

Edited by haroldsnepsts, 21 August 2010 - 10:51 AM.


#96 GMRwings1983

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 11:02 AM

Holland should have foreseen Williams was going to break his leg and not recover in time to be productive. A perfect GM would have anticipated all the injuries before the season kicked off.

A mistake would have been signing yet another (seventh) 4th liner instead of building the best 3rd line in the league. But you're right, as unwillingly as you are to understand that Holland put together the best possible winning team without losing assets, you still have the right to your own opinion.

Like I said, in the forward position and depth, Red Wings are unmatched in every category. Signing Asham over Modano would have proved to be the the perfect example of "geniuses make mistakes too".

In an earlier post you said that you would take Asham over Maltby, Draper and Miller. Just curious, who would you propose to trade to fit him on the 4th line? Abdelkader? Eaves? or Helm? My golly, Wings look pretty damn good on the 4th line even without your old 4th line "savior".

Do you even understand what your argument is?


Helm would move up to the 3rd line in my argument. Asham would play with Abby and Eaves. Please don't make me repeat that for the third time.

Those that are complaining are idiots... The Wings would prefer to spend their dollars that are going to go to a play with minmal offensive skill, and the ability to fight to a nice stay at homes defensmeb. As far as the Wings go Salei will get way more ice time than any 4th line enforcer ever would. Real toughness comes from the checks.
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I will. I'm going to go watch MMA right now, since that's what this whole thread is really about. :rolleyes:

It doesn't boggle the mind as much as you and GMR and other company want to believe.

Did Asham even want to play here from minute one? You don't know that, nobody does. And the 4th line, as stated, is probably going to be solid with energy/grit and hopefully some offense in some form of Eaves, Abdelkader, Helm, etc.

Would Asham have been nice? Sure. But it's not something to lose sleep over like you all are perceiving, which is why reactions like yours and GMR's are so hilarious to this.


Just so you know, I actually slept pretty well last night.

I was just posting my opinion on the issue, and not treating it as a life or death thing.

Maybe if you tried being passionate about some issue on these boards, then you could come off the same way.

The issue is a little upsetting to me, but I never said it was the end of the world for Detroit.
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#97 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 11:06 AM

No, I don't understand his argument. It's nonsense and makes me question his hockey intelligence. Had Holland signed, yet, another 4th liner this offseason (to make a total of seven (7) 4th liners under contract), then I would question if Holland lost his mind and needs to be stripped from the GM position.

I was never a fan of Williams either, but in all fairness, he was coming off a 20 goal season on crappy teams, and is a right hand shot. He was suppose to have a specific role and broke his leg and never recovered. You obviously don't remember Babcock praising the Leino-Filppula-Williams line as our best line at the start of the season. Then injuries happened and everything fell apart and never recovered.

This forward linup looks week as hell, and we'd likely lose assets (Miller and Ritola, and Ritola may have some untapped upside, but lets throw that all away for a 32 yo 4th liner - Brilliant!):

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmström
Hudler-Flippula-Franzen
Bertuzzi-Helm-Cleary
Asham-Abdelkader-Eaves


The lineup below is unquestionably light years better than the above - If you like winning, then you need a winning team with depth:

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmström
Bertuzzi-Flippula-Franzen
Hudler-Modano-Cleary
Eaves-Abdelkader-Helm

Holland may still lose Ritola because we have too many 4th liners. LGW's solution, sign more 4th liners :blink:

So to you, Modano is the difference between the Wings having one of the deepest offenses in the league or having a forward lineup that's weak as hell??

Think that's overstating it a bit? And we're going to lose assets either way.

Williams is injury prone and plays without heart. Detroit knew this. And he never was going to get as many minutes as he did on the crappy teams where he put up points. Even though Detroit gave him ample time on the PP because of his right handed shot. Yes, the leg break was unfortunate, but Williams was a bad signing. Likely a desperate one when Holland lost Sammy and Hudler.

And you're forgetting Draper, unless you're thinking he'll retire and the Wings will take the cap hit. That was also a bad contract by Holland.

#98 Heaten

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 11:10 AM

This is getting blown out of proportion by all the people condemning this thread.

Modano is 40. He has no upside either. But hopefully he'll bring something this season. Same could be said for Asham for a couple seasons. Modano was a -6, -13, and -11 his last three seasons. Helms is a career -11 in 3 seasons in the NHL.

I'm not saying this is an either or situation between two players. But the aspects you mention aren't enough to rule a guy out.

I don't think anyone really thinks Asham would make or break the Wings. But he's a guy who was had cheap who brings some elements the Wings could use.

That's it. cheap signing. good player for the money. Maybe would've been nice to see him on the 4th line. Didn't happen. Oh well.


No, but he's a solid 3rd line center. Helm and Abdelkader are not ready for the 3rd line. Filppula needs top 6 minutes to prove his value. Zetterberg and Datsyuk should be reunited. Signing Modano makes sense. Holland signing another 4th liner doesn't make any sense what-so-ever. Especially at the cost of possibly losing even more assets.

#99 GMRwings1983

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 11:15 AM

No, but he's a solid 3rd line center. Helm and Abdelkader are not ready for the 3rd line. Filppula needs top 6 minutes to prove his value. Zetterberg and Datsyuk should be reunited. Signing Modano makes sense. Holland signing another 4th liner doesn't make any sense what-so-ever. Especially at the cost of possibly losing even more assets.


Since when has a solid 3rd line center been someone who can't check and has never been known as a great defensive forward?

I know we have other forwards that can play defense, but it'd be nice to have a 3rd line with more than one defensive forward. Modano will be asked to change his whole mindset around and take a complete back seat on this team in a role he's not all that familiar with.

It might work or it may not. Don't know why everyone thinks it'll be a success without reservations. You do realize that he's not a star anymore?
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#100 McAwesome

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 11:16 AM

Since when has a solid 3rd line center been someone who can't check and has never been known as a great defensive forward?

I know we have other forwards that can play defense, but it'd be nice to have a 3rd line with more than one defensive forward. Modano will be asked to change his whole mindset around and take a complete back seat on this team in a role he's not all that familiar with.

It might work or it may not. Don't know why everyone thinks it'll be a success without reservations. You do realize that he's not a star anymore?


No, he's Wing. :ph34r:





Sorry, I couldn't resist

Edit: For the record, I'm with you on this. While I am excited for what Modano can bring offensively, it would have been nice to land a player that can do what Asham does for so cheap. It would have been pretty sweet to have a 4th line of Abdelkader, Eaves, and Asham, that would have been a bear to play against.

Edited by McAwesome, 21 August 2010 - 11:22 AM.

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