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Penguins sign Arron Asham


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#121 Heaten

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 07:38 PM

Well, you've got hyperbole down pat.

Draper's contract was brilliant? Even at a cap hit of 1.65 million, since the 08 season he's scored 17, 17, and 22 points. and was -2, -13 and -2. He plays 15 minutes or less and isn't a key faceoff guy and wasn't relied upon to kill penalties. In 08 maybe his cap hit fit his contributions, but it was on overall overpayment from the start. Especially since they knew even if he retired Detroit would be stuck with his cap hit.



I love Drapes, but he's been on the gravy train since he re-signed. The contract should be evaluated based on its full term. Not just the years it's favorable.


I'd be interested in reading the archives of what you wrote about Zetterberg's contract. Wonder what kind of double standard I'd find. Oh, and you also forgot to mention that Drapes is a vocal leader on the team. His contributions goes much beyond his on ice performance. Draper hasn't been on the "gravy train" since he re-signed. I remember him being a piece of the Stanley Cup championship in 08. ...Oh how quick we forget.

How much of Draper's 1.6 cap is overpaid? Enough to keep us from re-signing our stars? Nope, they are all locked up. Does his contract keep the Red Wings from winning the cup or making the SCF? Nope, Wings did that back-to-back.

Drapers contract is a bit overpaid now, but not enough to hamper the team. I'm not going to cry or fuss about it, Drapes helped Red Wings win lots of cups.. can't ***** about that.

#122 PatKaneInHumane

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 07:53 PM

I'd be interested in reading the archives of what you wrote about Zetterberg's contract. Wonder what kind of double standard I'd find. Oh, and you also forgot to mention that Drapes is a vocal leader on the team. His contributions goes much beyond his on ice performance. Draper hasn't been on the "gravy train" since he re-signed. I remember him being a piece of the Stanley Cup championship in 08. ...Oh how quick we forget.

How much of Draper's 1.6 cap is overpaid? Enough to keep us from re-signing our stars? Nope, they are all locked up. Does his contract keep the Red Wings from winning the cup or making the SCF? Nope, Wings did that back-to-back.

Drapers contract is a bit overpaid now, but not enough to hamper the team. I'm not going to cry or fuss about it, Drapes helped Red Wings win lots of cups.. can't ***** about that.


No, but Draper's contract did prevent the Wing's from signing a player better then modano (2.8 Million can get you some pretty good guys), but then again, this goes agasint your point, so it's magically invalid since you are the king of logic and hockey knoweledge.

#123 Stolberg

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 08:05 PM

Awww what happened to my thread :(



#124 Buppy

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 08:16 PM

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Sorry, I don't normally do the grammar cop thing, but I'm pretty sure there's only 136 h's in hysterical laughter. I wouldn't say anything, but I think the error really detracts from your point.

#125 Heaten

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 08:41 PM

No, but Draper's contract did prevent the Wing's from signing a player better then modano (2.8 Million can get you some pretty good guys), but then again, this goes agasint your point, so it's magically invalid since you are the king of logic and hockey knoweledge.


$2.8 million? Now you want Draper completely off the team? Amazing how quick fans can turn their back on long time heroes. Just a matter of time before people start dissing Lidstrom and Datsyuk. Can't wait to read the drama by you.

"but Draper's contract did prevent the Wing's from signing a player better then modano" Same can be said about Cleary's, Filppula's, Zetterberg's. Lidstrom's, Bertuzzi's, Holmstrom's, Rafalski's, Stuart's or Datsyuk's contract. But hey, lets forget about winning a couple of cups in the past 8 years and start throwing players under the bus.

And for the record, I don't think Red Wings need a $2.8 million dollar forward, the top 6 is set. Modano fits Red Wings style and will compliment the 3rd line very nicely. I'd bet if he gets some PP time, he'll score around 20 goals this season.

Unless you want to spend that $2.8 on a 5/6th defensemen?!?..., then that's just asinine. Wings are set with a solid veteran dman in Salei, and it's time for Nill's draft picks to start getting some experience and the future can continue to be built. (You do realize Kindl is out of options and must be waived, traded or kept on the team, right? Same for Ericsson)

Much like Yzerman and Shanahan did, Draper is helping with the transition for the youth guys; so it goes more smoothly. Like I said, the $500-$600k overpayment is merely a Meech or Lebda... WHOOPIE! :yowza:

Edited by Heaten, 21 August 2010 - 08:50 PM.


#126 Heaten

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 08:53 PM

Are you aware that there are people in this world that have a severe medical condition which causes them to be that way? My mother for instance is one of those people. She is a truck driver that has bad knees and a bad back from driving the truck but you probably do not care about that case either. Oh well I am not one of those people I am 6'4" 245lbs and I exercise every day. I would love to see you say something like to my mother in front of me. Probably never happen though you are probably just an internet tough guy. I doubt very seriously you would say that to someones face. Just my thought.What do you think. Oh I am sorry you probably do not have a brain. I on the other hand will be happy to buy you a plane ticket to come here and see if you have the nerve to say that to someone I know.


Lol.

Stay classy :thumbup:

#127 Original-Six

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 09:20 PM

7 pages of rage over a grinder?
Oh and btw the only reason he signed for so cheap was because he wanted to stay close to Philly.....He wasn't coming here for that price.

Edited by Original-Six, 21 August 2010 - 09:24 PM.


#128 SwedeLundin77

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 09:22 PM

So solid 4th line = fighting?

You're mixing concepts in a major way. We have a very solid 4th line. Eaves Abds Helm. Probably one of the best 4th lines in the league. Twice as good as Pittsburgh's 4th line.



This. These people who just ASSUME that the front office is stupid to not inquire about players are real idiots. Holland has been known to kick over every rock and look at EVERY player. Someone already said that Asham wanted to say in the PA area. So we didn't get a 4th liner that can muck it up a tad and put a few points up. We have probably the best 4th line in the league. Does it fight? Not really, but will it roll over? No. Eaves, Helm, and Abdelkader are all gritty players, they will cause problems for other teams by working their asses off. I'd rather have that then worry about fighting. It's such a stupid argument. We are so horrible, must be why we have won all these cups and have been a successful team for the past 2 decades. Stop acting like Asham would have been our savior, cause he wouldn't have been. We don't have the room on our roster for him anyway, so it's a moot argument.

Stop assuming everything and start being smart about what you say.

#129 titanium2

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 09:28 PM

Lol.

Stay classy :thumbup:


I'm not even sure what the hell he's talking about.

#130 cjm502

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 09:43 PM

I'm not even sure what the hell he's talking about.

I tried to figure it out, and came out with nothing.
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#131 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 09:46 PM

I'd be interested in reading the archives of what you wrote about Zetterberg's contract. Wonder what kind of double standard I'd find. Oh, and you also forgot to mention that Drapes is a vocal leader on the team. His contributions goes much beyond his on ice performance. Draper hasn't been on the "gravy train" since he re-signed. I remember him being a piece of the Stanley Cup championship in 08. ...Oh how quick we forget.

How much of Draper's 1.6 cap is overpaid? Enough to keep us from re-signing our stars? Nope, they are all locked up. Does his contract keep the Red Wings from winning the cup or making the SCF? Nope, Wings did that back-to-back.

Drapers contract is a bit overpaid now, but not enough to hamper the team. I'm not going to cry or fuss about it, Drapes helped Red Wings win lots of cups.. can't ***** about that.

The Wings don't need a vocal leader who doesn't contribute much on the ice. That's called the coaching staff.

yes, I think Draper's 4 points in the 08 playoffs are what put us over the top. He certainly contributed more then than he does now. But I'm not quickly forgetting. If you read my post, I said his contract fit his contributions in 08. But you're trying to justify his current pay for things he's done in the past. That's a pretty good example of why it's a bad contract. They signed him for too much or too long.


You're grasping at straws now with nonsensical arguments. Did his contract keep the Wings from making it to the SCF? who knows? how could you ever prove that? Maybe it kept them from winning their second Cup? prove it didn't. The point isn't to pick specific players that his contract has prevented us from getting. That's all speculation. I don't see how you can look at his role on the team these last few seasons and think he's worth that money.

But god forbid someone criticize Red Wings management. This thread started not even so much as criticism, but more, "would've been nice to have him" until all the cheerleaders jumped in.

Edited by haroldsnepsts, 21 August 2010 - 09:51 PM.


#132 Original-Six

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 09:46 PM

I tried to figure it out, and came out with nothing.


Im going to say troll on the grounds of trying to create confusion by not making any sense.

#133 titanium2

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 09:53 PM

If you had to pick a skilled line to be within your bottom six, would you rather have Hudler-Modano-Cleary of 2010 or Robitaille-Larionov-Holmstrom of 2002?

#134 PatKaneInHumane

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 10:04 PM

Lol.

Stay classy :thumbup:



I'm not even sure what the hell he's talking about.



I tried to figure it out, and came out with nothing.


Heaten orginally made a post about Asham skating like a gimp, which he has since edited to hide his ignorance. In addition, he stated that Draper's 1.6 million was chump change, and that any "non-poor" person would see it the same way as he. I'm sorry that I live a modest life Heaten, but lets try to keep this board civil. Money can be nice, but I tend to judge people on character, not their paychecks.

#135 Buppy

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 10:29 PM

The Wings don't need a vocal leader who doesn't contribute much on the ice. That's called the coaching staff.

yes, I think Draper's 4 points in the 08 playoffs are what put us over the top. He certainly contributed more then than he does now. But I'm not quickly forgetting. If you read my post, I said his contract fit his contributions in 08. But you're trying to justify his current pay for things he's done in the past. That's a pretty good example of why it's a bad contract. They signed him for too much or too long.


You're grasping at straws now with nonsensical arguments. Did his contract keep the Wings from making it to the SCF? who knows? how could you ever prove that? Maybe it kept them from winning their second Cup? prove it didn't. The point isn't to pick specific players that his contract has prevented us from getting. That's all speculation. I don't see how you can look at his role on the team these last few seasons and think he's worth that money.

But god forbid someone criticize Red Wings management. This thread started not even so much as criticism, but more, "would've been nice to have him" until all the cheerleaders jumped in.

Actually, it started with 'this sucks' and it's 'worse than getting Williams instead of Prospal'. Little over the top.

And no one's saying management is above criticism. Some of us just think Modano is better for the team than Asham would be. Stop acting like your being repressed. We all have our opinions, all we're doing is discussing them. (Though I would say, as a general rule, Holland does a lot better managing the roster than any of us would, but that's beside the point.)

In regards to Draper, I'll say that it's easy to judge a contract in hindsight. Sure, we could probably replace his value for half (or less) the cost, and possibly use that savings to improve somewhere else. His off-ice contributions might not be missed. Nor, I think, would our reputation for treating our players well have suffered had we not resigned Draper (or given him less money, or term). Oh well. No roster in any sport has ever been perfect. Unless you can point out some example that would make us a notably better team without Draper's contract, then it's pointless to complain about it. But I don't think you can get a difference-maker with his salary. At best you're looking at a marginal improvement in the bottom lines. Wow.

Draper has been a valuable member of this franchise for many years, we wouldn't be that much better off without him, so why complain? It's not like we spent $5.6M on a FA goalie whose resume was basically one good 13 game stretch (and we're now risking our reputation by ungraciously disposing of him).

#136 Shaman

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 11:38 PM

Are you aware that there are people in this world that have a severe medical condition which causes them to be that way? My mother for instance is one of those people. She is a truck driver that has bad knees and a bad back from driving the truck but you probably do not care about that case either. Oh well I am not one of those people I am 6'4" 245lbs and I exercise every day. I would love to see you say something like to my mother in front of me. Probably never happen though you are probably just an internet tough guy. I doubt very seriously you would say that to someones face. Just my thought.What do you think. Oh I am sorry you probably do not have a brain. I on the other hand will be happy to buy you a plane ticket to come here and see if you have the nerve to say that to someone I know.

Your mother is lazy and she sucks.

If you can't tell this is a jab at the whole 'you are internet kid i kick your ass trolling' that has no place in this thread, by me cleverly using a LGW meme.

As for Asham, I don't see how what he adds is so prolific it would be better than what would be lost. Hitting/fight ≠ scoring. Sorry, but at the end of the night its about who scored more goals, not who won more fights or had more big hits.

Edited by Shaman464, 21 August 2010 - 11:42 PM.

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#137 Tommy_Like_Wingy

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Posted 22 August 2010 - 12:23 AM

Are you aware that there are people in this world that have a severe medical condition which causes them to be that way? My mother for instance is one of those people. She is a truck driver that has bad knees and a bad back from driving the truck but you probably do not care about that case either. Oh well I am not one of those people I am 6'4" 245lbs and I exercise every day. I would love to see you say something like to my mother in front of me. Probably never happen though you are probably just an internet tough guy. I doubt very seriously you would say that to someones face. Just my thought.What do you think. Oh I am sorry you probably do not have a brain. I on the other hand will be happy to buy you a plane ticket to come here and see if you have the nerve to say that to someone I know.


lol aware

Miscers are everywhere.

#138 EZBAKETHAGANGSTA

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Posted 22 August 2010 - 12:27 AM

lol aware

Miscers are everywhere.


Come at me bro.
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#139 Tommy_Like_Wingy

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Posted 22 August 2010 - 12:47 AM

Come at me bro.


What the...I don't even...

#140 Heaten

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Posted 22 August 2010 - 01:42 AM

The Wings don't need a vocal leader who doesn't contribute much on the ice. That's called the coaching staff.

yes, I think Draper's 4 points in the 08 playoffs are what put us over the top. He certainly contributed more then than he does now. But I'm not quickly forgetting. If you read my post, I said his contract fit his contributions in 08. But you're trying to justify his current pay for things he's done in the past. That's a pretty good example of why it's a bad contract. They signed him for too much or too long.


You're grasping at straws now with nonsensical arguments. Did his contract keep the Wings from making it to the SCF? who knows? how could you ever prove that? Maybe it kept them from winning their second Cup? prove it didn't. The point isn't to pick specific players that his contract has prevented us from getting. That's all speculation. I don't see how you can look at his role on the team these last few seasons and think he's worth that money.

But god forbid someone criticize Red Wings management. This thread started not even so much as criticism, but more, "would've been nice to have him" until all the cheerleaders jumped in.


Seriously? When the team wins the Stanley Cup, every player is an important piece to that victory. Surprised you can't understand that. /facepalm

With that kind of logic, what are you going to say if Red Wings win the cup next year? "erm...gee wiz, Modano only scored 4 goals, Holland made a bad decision signing him instead of Asham", [...] "Slappies are always here cheerleading Holland after he builds cup winning championship teams, they don't understand that Holland should have signed 'Asham instead'" :unsure:

btw, Dallas Drake only scored 4 points, guess he wasn't a piece of the 08 cup victory either? (by your logic)

I don't see how you can look at his role on the team these last few seasons and think he's worth that money.


I said that? Really? Lets dig back to.... page 5:

Yes Draper's contract is bad now. He's overpaid by $600-$700 yr. However, in 2007/08 his contract was brilliant. Same thing will be said about Zetterberg and Franzen in 5-6 years.


:blink:

The Wings don't need a vocal leader who doesn't contribute much on the ice. That's called the coaching staff.


"Draper's a leader for us with his energy level and his commitment," Red Wings coach Mike Babcock said. - But let me guess, Babcock doesn't have the hockey intelligence as you? Can't wait to read the excuses trying to discredit this one... ;)

You're grasping at straws now with nonsensical arguments.


Says the guy with poor reading comprehension skills. Says the guy who discredits Draper 3 goals and 4 points in the 08 playoffs (despite lifting the cup), while Drake had the same number of points that same run, Gasp! I'll say it again so maybe it'll sink in... When the team wins the Stanley Cup, every player is an important part to that victory.

Edited by Heaten, 22 August 2010 - 01:43 AM.






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