Bill Guerin will NOT be offered a contract

[rage 24]

And they are just NOW telling him this??????

[F2B&G 15]

The irony of any Pittsburgh player, fan, or resident calling Detroit a craphole is laughable. That city has been just as much of a dour, smog-choked dump since the steel industry packed up and left for China.

[Vladifan 680]

...Time to throw away the ol' Brownie Reflex and grow a brain, little Billy G.

(Thanks for putting this on here, McAwesome)

Look who's unemployed now

Pefectly put. What are the chances of getting this framed entitled with the above, and mailed to him.

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

Wow, talk about putting words in someone's mouth. Did I ever claim he was a top-6 guy? No, but seeing as you said that any GM would sign him for league minimum, you implied Holland would have done the same. Since you freely admitted that Guerin is lax on the defensive side, and it is known he is a slow skater ineffective at the forecheck at this point of his career, it would be ridiculous to have him on the 3rd/4th line. The only place he could be effective right now is the top 6. Did I ever claim his level of play in his prime was an indicator of how he'll play now?Indirectly, yes. You mentioned his previous success as if it was somehow relevant and a counterpoint to my true statement that his numbers were raised by playing top line minutes/with top quality talent. Did I ever claim he could crack the Wings' top-6? No, nor did I ever said you did, but seeing as his style of play clearly would not fit, and you were citing his production as a major factor to wanting to sign him, It stands relevant. You can't have that production from Guerin on the third line anymore. This is not a subjective or a debatable matter. *All I said* was that Guerin is not a league-minimum player, even at his current age and no matter what team he's onThis brilliant statement also forgot to factor the conditions in which he produced those said points the past two seasons.. To assume he is is ridiculous and shows you're not paying attention around the league. Now before you go off again, check out his numbers the year before last or even the year before that if you want a sample of his offensive ability *at this point in his career.*

Instead of being so quick to hit the reply button perhaps you should actually read what was written before going off on your tangent.

The irony of this post hurts. Please read the bolded, and don't bother replying.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Edited August 27, 2010 by Doc Holliday

[Hank Dats 'N Homer 81]

The irony of this post hurts. Please read the bolded, and don't bother replying.

That whole post hurt my head. Implied this, idirectly that. Regardless of what your feelings are, facts are facts. The guy has scored over 40 points the last 5 seasons and that includes almost 2 full seasons with the islanders, and a season with te blues...so im not really understanding your whole rant. You took every last thing that Mac said and twisted it until you could make some kind of ass backwards response to it. You and my girlfriend would get along pretty well, you are both great at that.

Guerin is a bonafide 40-50 point getter even in his late age PROVEN. Regardless of what team he is on. You can sit there and say he got his stats padded in pitts all you want, but go look at the last 5 season when he was with below par teams. He is worth above league minimum if guys like boogard and lebda are getting 1.5 a year...and i beleive thats ALL Mac was trying to say in his posts.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Hank Dats 'N Homer

[Guest LarryMurphySpecial]

That whole post hurt my head. Implied this, idirectly that. Regardless of what your feelings are, facts are facts. The guy has scored over 40 points the last 5 seasons and that includes almost 2 full seasons with the islanders, and a season with te blues...so im not really understanding your whole rant. You took every last thing that Mac said and twisted it until you could make some kind of ass backwards response to it. You and my girlfriend would get along pretty well, you are both great at that.

Guerin is a bonafide 40-50 point getter even in his late age PROVEN. Regardless of what team he is on. You can sit there and say he got his stats padded in pitts all you want, but go look at the last 5 season when he was with below par teams. He is worth above league minimum if guys like boogard and lebda are getting 1.5 a year...and i beleive thats ALL Mac was trying to say in his posts.

So playing first line minutes with two of the best centers in the league doesn't inflate his stats at all? You're acting as if the ice time (or the line mates he had for the 1.5 in Pittsburgh)he has received in the last few seasons had no effect on his point production. Sorry, but as much as it hurts to admit, I have to side with EZ. What Mac was saying in his 2nd post was ridiculous and had no relevance.There is no proof that he would put up those points regardless of what team he is on. Anything to the contrary is a blatant lie.

Edited August 27, 2010 by LarryMurphySpecial

[SweWings 45]

Maybe a season in Tampa? Or do they have too many forwards already?

[Nev 1,085]

. The Pittsburgh Penguins And The Search For Wingers airs again this October.

THere was a great thread on the HF boards last season asking if any team had a worse collection of wingers than Pittsburgh. The only team that even came close was Detroit when we had all out injuries

[Hank Dats 'N Homer 81]

So playing first line minutes with two of the best centers in the league doesn't inflate his stats at all? You're acting as if the ice time (or the line mates he had for the 1.5 in Pittsburgh)he has received in the last few seasons had no effect on his point production. Sorry, but as much as it hurts to admit, I have to side with EZ. What Mac was saying in his 2nd post was ridiculous and had no relevance.There is no proof that he would put up those points regardless of what team he is on. Anything to the contrary is a blatant lie.

But there is proof that he would put up those kind of numbers elsewhere. Look at his stats for the past 5 years. Hes put up those kind of numbers regardless of what team he was on. Islanders, blues, sharks, devils he has put up those numbers. Im not saying that he did get help from the penguins top line or ice time, but he had the same kind of numbers while playing on other teams. Thats all i was saying. And i think that is proof that he could continue to do that.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

No, but seeing as you said that any GM would sign him for league minimum, you implied Holland would have done the same. Since you freely admitted that Guerin is lax on the defensive side, and it is known he is a slow skater ineffective at the forecheck at this point of his career, it would be ridiculous to have him on the 3rd/4th line. The only place he could be effective right now is the top 6.

Yeah, because Hudler who's currently sitting on our 3rd line is known for his skating prowess, defense and forecheck. Guys like Guerin round out rosters all the time and it gives those teams massive advantages over less skilled bottom line grinders.

Did I ever claim his level of play in his prime was an indicator of how he'll play now? Indirectly, yes. You mentioned his previous success as if it was somehow relevant and a counterpoint to my true statement that his numbers were raised by playing top line minutes/with top quality talent.

That's a pretty dumb argument given you "won't" let me base it on any other portion of his career. The fact of the matter is Guerin was playing on s***ty Islanders teams before he went to Pittsburgh, which is the sample I've used for his current level of play not including Pittsburgh since you whined about his career numbers. Given those numbers Guerin is still putting the puck in the net and setting up goals at a pace that no league minimum player is.

No, nor did I ever said you did, but seeing as his style of play clearly would not fit, and you were citing his production as a major factor to wanting to sign him, It stands relevant. You can't have that production from Guerin on the third line anymore. This is not a subjective or a debatable matter.

How convenient for you. Because you think its not subjective or debatable it clearly must not be. That's just stupid.

Why don't you wait and see where he ends up (as long as he doesn't retire), see what that GM gives him and then watch his production and then we'll talk.

This brilliant statement also forgot to factor the conditions in which he produced those said points the past two seasons.

Again, how convenient to take away credit when it strengthens your argument and then give to others for the same thing. The big difference is that Guerin has produced regardless of what team he's ever been on. Does it mean I like him, no...but anyone with half a brain can see the guy can produce, especially for a league minimum salary.

The irony of this post hurts. Please read the bolded, and don't bother replying.

Nice way of trying to "win" the debate. Just tell someone not to reply to you....that for sure means you're right.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

So playing first line minutes with two of the best centers in the league doesn't inflate his stats at all? You're acting as if the ice time (or the line mates he had for the 1.5 in Pittsburgh)he has received in the last few seasons had no effect on his point production. Sorry, but as much as it hurts to admit, I have to side with EZ. What Mac was saying in his 2nd post was ridiculous and had no relevance.There is no proof that he would put up those points regardless of what team he is on. Anything to the contrary is a blatant lie.

How the hell can you say this? We have absolutely zero way of proving it one way or the other. All we can do is use his stats from a season-and-a-half ago as the most recent sample and go from there. The numbers prove you wrong.

Until he signs on with someone else anything else is speculation on your part, but atleast his career numbers and especially the one's leading up to his time with Pittsburgh prove he can still score at a pace better than the league minimum (which BTW, is my one and olny f'ing argument).

[ShanahanMan 473]

You guys really confuse the hell out of me sometimes. So signing a guy like Mike Modano who had 30 points last season for 1.5 mil is an awesome idea but signing Guerin, a player who had more goals and points, for one third the price is stupid. I just don't get the logic.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

You guys really confuse the hell out of me sometimes. So signing a guy like Mike Modano who had 30 points last season for 1.5 mil is an awesome idea but signing Guerin, a player who had more goals and points, for one third the price is stupid. I just don't get the logic.

Because playing with superstar centers doesn't have a factor in how you get those points?

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Because playing with superstar centers doesn't have a factor in how you get those points?

It doesn't when he's been putting up the types of numbers his entire career on a multitude of teams.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

It doesn't when he's been putting up the types of numbers his entire career on a multitude of teams.

Wrong. The guy was not good last year. His offensive numbers were almost directly based on the skills of his centermen (primarily Crosby). If you watch the guy play consistently (which Pens fans did) you will agree with that assessment.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

Maybe a season in Tampa? Or do they have too many forwards already?

Tampa's got a plethora of forwards.

St.Louis-Stamkos-Malone

Gagne-Lecavalier-Downie

Durno-Moore-Purcell

Fritz-Thompson-B.Jones

Bergenheim/M.Pouliot

Guerin will have to look elsewhere.

[egroen 384]

Guerin's game has hit a brick wall, especially last year. Penguins' fans do not want him back at league minimum... he has utterly destroyed so many golden opportunities created by Malkin and Crosby it is amazing. Though Crosby does have Guerin to partially thank for his Rocket Richard trophy, since Guerin's ineptitude forced Crosby to finish his own opportunities more.

I'll go ahead and state Kopecky could have 20 goals with 1st line and PP minutes playing with Crosby and Malkin.

Edited August 27, 2010 by egroen

[McAwesome 754]

Tampa's got a plethora of forwards.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

+1

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Wrong. The guy was not good last year. His offensive numbers were almost directly based on the skills of his centermen (primarily Crosby). If you watch the guy play consistently (which Pens fans did) you will agree with that assessment.

Did you just completely ignore what I wrote to make your argument?

A perennial scorer with one "bad" season (in which he still put up 46 points) is not enough to say the guy is now garbage and only worth the league minimum. Again, the key word here is "league minimum!"

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Did you just completely ignore what I wrote to make your argument?

A perennial scorer with one "bad" season (in which he still put up 46 points) is not enough to say the guy is now garbage and only worth the league minimum. Again, the key word here is "league minimum!"

When did I say he was only worth league minimum?

Edited August 27, 2010 by Doc Holliday

[Broken 16 381]

Wow, talk about putting words in someone's mouth. Did I ever claim he was a top-6 guy? Did I ever claim his level of play in his prime was an indicator of how he'll play now? Did I ever claim he could crack the Wings' top-6? *All I said* was that Guerin is not a league-minimum player, even at his current age and no matter what team he's on. To assume he is is ridiculous and shows you're not paying attention around the league. Now before you go off again, check out his numbers the year before last or even the year before that if you want a sample of his offensive ability *at this point in his career.*

Instead of being so quick to hit the reply button perhaps you should actually read what was written before going off on your tangent.

You might be one of the most argumentative mods I have ever come across. Not sure if it's refreshing or annoying.

First off... numbers from two and three years ago are not numbers from *this point*. They are from a couple years ago.

Secondly, it wouldn't be out of the realm to see him accept league minimum. Especially because if he laces them up again, he will not want to play for anybody but a contender. How many contenders have an extra 1+ million laying around?

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

Who's basing it on last season? The guy is a perennial 20-25 goal scorer on any team he plays on. Has nothing to do with Malkin or Crosby.

Take a look at his career as a whole.

the age guerin's at with his totals going down annually since his 36 goal campaign in STL in 06-07, without playing on a 1st line with crosby or malkin, he'll get 15 goals tops on some teams 2nd line if he gets 2nd line mins. if on 3rd line, pencil him in for 10 and 35 pts.

[Broken 16 381]

Why, because I actively post on this forum? My stance hasn't changed in here and all I've done is defend my original comment. If people challenge me, why wouldn't I respond back?

It's all good. I decided that it was refreshing.

:facepalm: I had to use those numbers because EZ "wasn't allowing" me to use the previous season's total given he was centered by Crosby and Malkin. Since he wasn't playing for any other team that had less talented centers, how can anyone state with any precise accuracy how he would finished?

Nobody can, obviously, but you seem to be automatically assuming that he will score 20 goals no matter where he plays... what's the difference between auto-assuming he will and auto-assuming he wont? You are just going the opposite way that most everyone else is going.

Not a ton, but there are a couple out there (I.E. WSH, SJS).

I'd actually like to see him land in San Jose if anywhere. I feel like he would drop off big time in Washington for some reason. I see him ending the season in obscurity there. San Jose seems like a much better fit for him.

Wonder what the odds are that he signs in Chicago for the league minimum.