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Bill Guerin will NOT be offered a contract


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#21 Hockeytown0001

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 02:26 PM

Look who's unemployed now


:siren:

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#22 EZBAKETHAGANGSTA

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 02:31 PM

Who's basing it on last season? The guy is a perennial 20-25 goal scorer on any team he plays on. Has nothing to do with Malkin or Crosby.

Take a look at his career as a whole.


Yes, because his level of play when he was in his prime is surly a perfect indication of how a player will perform at age 39. :rolleyes:.

He played well over 17 minutes night last season, paired with two of the top 5 centers in the NHL and put up decent points, but in no way would he be an improvement over anyone in our top 6. Even last year with the Islanders he managed to put up 36 points in 61 games despite getting heavy powerplay and ice time.

Guerin isn't a bad player, and I never said he wasn't good in his prime, but to think he is still an effective top 6 forward in the NHL is pushing it, especially on a team like the Wings. Last season's numbers were a product of heavy ice time and line mates, no matter how good his numbers 10 years ago were.
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#23 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 02:42 PM

Yes, because his level of play when he was in his prime is surly a perfect indication of how a player will perform at age 39. :rolleyes:.

He played well over 17 minutes night last season, paired with two of the top 5 centers in the NHL and put up decent points, but in no way would he be an improvement over anyone in our top 6. Even last year with the Islanders he managed to put up 36 points in 61 games despite getting heavy powerplay and ice time.

Guerin isn't a bad player, and I never said he wasn't good in his prime, but to think he is still an effective top 6 forward in the NHL is pushing it, especially on a team like the Wings. Last season's numbers were a product of heavy ice time and line mates, no matter how good his numbers 10 years ago were.

:lol:

Wow, talk about putting words in someone's mouth. Did I ever claim he was a top-6 guy? Did I ever claim his level of play in his prime was an indicator of how he'll play now? Did I ever claim he could crack the Wings' top-6? *All I said* was that Guerin is not a league-minimum player, even at his current age and no matter what team he's on. To assume he is is ridiculous and shows you're not paying attention around the league. Now before you go off again, check out his numbers the year before last or even the year before that if you want a sample of his offensive ability *at this point in his career.*

Instead of being so quick to hit the reply button perhaps you should actually read what was written before going off on your tangent.
It's amazing how much clarity comes when you care more about the Red Wings than any individual player.


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#24 HankthaTank

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 03:20 PM

Got to say if Boogaard is getting 1.625 for 4 years that this guy will find a place and over league minimum without a doubt. Sorry, but I have to base EVERYTHING off that downright insulting contract they gave that guy.
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#25 AARedWingFan

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 04:18 PM

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#26 rage

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 06:57 PM

And they are just NOW telling him this??????

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#27 F2B&G

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 07:05 PM

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The irony of any Pittsburgh player, fan, or resident calling Detroit a craphole is laughable. That city has been just as much of a dour, smog-choked dump since the steel industry packed up and left for China. :rolleyes:

#28 Vladifan

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 07:13 PM

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...Time to throw away the ol' Brownie Reflex and grow a brain, little Billy G. :plain:

(Thanks for putting this on here, McAwesome)

Look who's unemployed now



Pefectly put. What are the chances of getting this framed entitled with the above, and mailed to him. :sly:

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#29 EZBAKETHAGANGSTA

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 07:22 PM

:lol:

Wow, talk about putting words in someone's mouth. Did I ever claim he was a top-6 guy? No, but seeing as you said that any GM would sign him for league minimum, you implied Holland would have done the same. Since you freely admitted that Guerin is lax on the defensive side, and it is known he is a slow skater ineffective at the forecheck at this point of his career, it would be ridiculous to have him on the 3rd/4th line. The only place he could be effective right now is the top 6. Did I ever claim his level of play in his prime was an indicator of how he'll play now?Indirectly, yes. You mentioned his previous success as if it was somehow relevant and a counterpoint to my true statement that his numbers were raised by playing top line minutes/with top quality talent. Did I ever claim he could crack the Wings' top-6? No, nor did I ever said you did, but seeing as his style of play clearly would not fit, and you were citing his production as a major factor to wanting to sign him, It stands relevant. You can't have that production from Guerin on the third line anymore. This is not a subjective or a debatable matter. *All I said* was that Guerin is not a league-minimum player, even at his current age and no matter what team he's onThis brilliant statement also forgot to factor the conditions in which he produced those said points the past two seasons.. To assume he is is ridiculous and shows you're not paying attention around the league. Now before you go off again, check out his numbers the year before last or even the year before that if you want a sample of his offensive ability *at this point in his career.*

Instead of being so quick to hit the reply button perhaps you should actually read what was written before going off on your tangent.


The irony of this post hurts. Please read the bolded, and don't bother replying.
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#30 Doc Holliday

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 07:32 PM

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Edited by Doc Holliday, 27 August 2010 - 10:29 AM.

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#31 Hank Dats 'N Homer

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 08:27 PM

The irony of this post hurts. Please read the bolded, and don't bother replying.


That whole post hurt my head. Implied this, idirectly that. Regardless of what your feelings are, facts are facts. The guy has scored over 40 points the last 5 seasons and that includes almost 2 full seasons with the islanders, and a season with te blues...so im not really understanding your whole rant. You took every last thing that Mac said and twisted it until you could make some kind of ass backwards response to it. You and my girlfriend would get along pretty well, you are both great at that.

Guerin is a bonafide 40-50 point getter even in his late age PROVEN. Regardless of what team he is on. You can sit there and say he got his stats padded in pitts all you want, but go look at the last 5 season when he was with below par teams. He is worth above league minimum if guys like boogard and lebda are getting 1.5 a year...and i beleive thats ALL Mac was trying to say in his posts.

Edited by Hank Dats 'N Homer, 26 August 2010 - 08:29 PM.


#32 LarryMurphySpecial

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 11:32 PM

That whole post hurt my head. Implied this, idirectly that. Regardless of what your feelings are, facts are facts. The guy has scored over 40 points the last 5 seasons and that includes almost 2 full seasons with the islanders, and a season with te blues...so im not really understanding your whole rant. You took every last thing that Mac said and twisted it until you could make some kind of ass backwards response to it. You and my girlfriend would get along pretty well, you are both great at that.

Guerin is a bonafide 40-50 point getter even in his late age PROVEN
. Regardless of what team he is on. You can sit there and say he got his stats padded in pitts all you want, but go look at the last 5 season when he was with below par teams. He is worth above league minimum if guys like boogard and lebda are getting 1.5 a year...and i beleive thats ALL Mac was trying to say in his posts.


So playing first line minutes with two of the best centers in the league doesn't inflate his stats at all? You're acting as if the ice time (or the line mates he had for the 1.5 in Pittsburgh)he has received in the last few seasons had no effect on his point production. Sorry, but as much as it hurts to admit, I have to side with EZ. What Mac was saying in his 2nd post was ridiculous and had no relevance.There is no proof that he would put up those points regardless of what team he is on. Anything to the contrary is a blatant lie.

Edited by LarryMurphySpecial, 26 August 2010 - 11:47 PM.


#33 SweWings

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 11:36 PM

Maybe a season in Tampa? Or do they have too many forwards already?

#34 Nev

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 12:51 AM

. The Pittsburgh Penguins And The Search For Wingers airs again this October.


THere was a great thread on the HF boards last season asking if any team had a worse collection of wingers than Pittsburgh. The only team that even came close was Detroit when we had all out injuries :D
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#35 Hank Dats 'N Homer

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 07:12 AM

So playing first line minutes with two of the best centers in the league doesn't inflate his stats at all? You're acting as if the ice time (or the line mates he had for the 1.5 in Pittsburgh)he has received in the last few seasons had no effect on his point production. Sorry, but as much as it hurts to admit, I have to side with EZ. What Mac was saying in his 2nd post was ridiculous and had no relevance.There is no proof that he would put up those points regardless of what team he is on. Anything to the contrary is a blatant lie.


But there is proof that he would put up those kind of numbers elsewhere. Look at his stats for the past 5 years. Hes put up those kind of numbers regardless of what team he was on. Islanders, blues, sharks, devils he has put up those numbers. Im not saying that he did get help from the penguins top line or ice time, but he had the same kind of numbers while playing on other teams. Thats all i was saying. And i think that is proof that he could continue to do that.

#36 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 08:04 AM

No, but seeing as you said that any GM would sign him for league minimum, you implied Holland would have done the same. Since you freely admitted that Guerin is lax on the defensive side, and it is known he is a slow skater ineffective at the forecheck at this point of his career, it would be ridiculous to have him on the 3rd/4th line. The only place he could be effective right now is the top 6.

Yeah, because Hudler who's currently sitting on our 3rd line is known for his skating prowess, defense and forecheck. Guys like Guerin round out rosters all the time and it gives those teams massive advantages over less skilled bottom line grinders.

Did I ever claim his level of play in his prime was an indicator of how he'll play now? Indirectly, yes. You mentioned his previous success as if it was somehow relevant and a counterpoint to my true statement that his numbers were raised by playing top line minutes/with top quality talent.

That's a pretty dumb argument given you "won't" let me base it on any other portion of his career. The fact of the matter is Guerin was playing on s***ty Islanders teams before he went to Pittsburgh, which is the sample I've used for his current level of play not including Pittsburgh since you whined about his career numbers. Given those numbers Guerin is still putting the puck in the net and setting up goals at a pace that no league minimum player is.

No, nor did I ever said you did, but seeing as his style of play clearly would not fit, and you were citing his production as a major factor to wanting to sign him, It stands relevant. You can't have that production from Guerin on the third line anymore. This is not a subjective or a debatable matter.

:lol:

How convenient for you. Because you think its not subjective or debatable it clearly must not be. That's just stupid.

Why don't you wait and see where he ends up (as long as he doesn't retire), see what that GM gives him and then watch his production and then we'll talk.

This brilliant statement also forgot to factor the conditions in which he produced those said points the past two seasons.

Again, how convenient to take away credit when it strengthens your argument and then give to others for the same thing. The big difference is that Guerin has produced regardless of what team he's ever been on. Does it mean I like him, no...but anyone with half a brain can see the guy can produce, especially for a league minimum salary.

The irony of this post hurts. Please read the bolded, and don't bother replying.

Nice way of trying to "win" the debate. Just tell someone not to reply to you....that for sure means you're right. :lol:
It's amazing how much clarity comes when you care more about the Red Wings than any individual player.


"They are the best team in the world. They are a team that can just take over when they want to," Chicago's Patrick Kane said (of the Detroit Red Wings).

#37 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 08:10 AM

So playing first line minutes with two of the best centers in the league doesn't inflate his stats at all? You're acting as if the ice time (or the line mates he had for the 1.5 in Pittsburgh)he has received in the last few seasons had no effect on his point production. Sorry, but as much as it hurts to admit, I have to side with EZ. What Mac was saying in his 2nd post was ridiculous and had no relevance.There is no proof that he would put up those points regardless of what team he is on. Anything to the contrary is a blatant lie.

How the hell can you say this? We have absolutely zero way of proving it one way or the other. All we can do is use his stats from a season-and-a-half ago as the most recent sample and go from there. The numbers prove you wrong.

Until he signs on with someone else anything else is speculation on your part, but atleast his career numbers and especially the one's leading up to his time with Pittsburgh prove he can still score at a pace better than the league minimum (which BTW, is my one and olny f'ing argument).
It's amazing how much clarity comes when you care more about the Red Wings than any individual player.


"They are the best team in the world. They are a team that can just take over when they want to," Chicago's Patrick Kane said (of the Detroit Red Wings).

#38 ShanahanMan

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 08:20 AM

You guys really confuse the hell out of me sometimes. So signing a guy like Mike Modano who had 30 points last season for 1.5 mil is an awesome idea but signing Guerin, a player who had more goals and points, for one third the price is stupid. I just don't get the logic.


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#39 Doc Holliday

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 10:22 AM

You guys really confuse the hell out of me sometimes. So signing a guy like Mike Modano who had 30 points last season for 1.5 mil is an awesome idea but signing Guerin, a player who had more goals and points, for one third the price is stupid. I just don't get the logic.


Because playing with superstar centers doesn't have a factor in how you get those points?

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#40 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 10:25 AM

Because playing with superstar centers doesn't have a factor in how you get those points?

It doesn't when he's been putting up the types of numbers his entire career on a multitude of teams.
It's amazing how much clarity comes when you care more about the Red Wings than any individual player.


"They are the best team in the world. They are a team that can just take over when they want to," Chicago's Patrick Kane said (of the Detroit Red Wings).





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