HF's Red Wings Top 20

[Jesusberg 1,256]

Hey guys,

Just looking to get some feedback on the top 20 Red Wings prospects. I'm posting this to create some healthy, open discussion about the topic. I'd appreciate it if no one bashed me too much, as I didn't post it to be called a "retard". I do appreciate criticism, though, as I'm about a year into writing for them and I think (hope) I'm getting a bit better with how I rank prospects.

Anyway, thanks for any input to anyone who posts

[wings1110 184]

great read! the only thing i would change is not having players such as abby, kindl, and ritola on the list as I would no longer consider them prospects. but overall great read

[Shaman 713]

Hey guys,

Just looking to get some feedback on the top 20 Red Wings prospects. I'm posting this to create some healthy, open discussion about the topic. I'd appreciate it if no one bashed me too much, as I didn't post it to be called a "retard". I do appreciate criticism, though, as I'm about a year into writing for them and I think (hope) I'm getting a bit better with how I rank prospects.

Anyway, thanks for any input to anyone who posts

I don't like the rankings, if youre the one who says one player is a 7.0C and such, you're very conservative... take Pittsburgh for example, they have a very shallow prospect pool but most of their top 20 are 7s or higher (14 of them)... the ranking themselves aren't bad per say, but some are weird, like Larsson still being so high after a bad season in GR and going back to Sweden.

[titanium2 867]

Dick Axelsson shouldn't be anywhere near the top 20.

[WorkingOvertime 536]

Dick Axelsson shouldn't be anywhere near the top 20.

I agree. I also don't know if Emmerton should be included- it doesn't look like he'll ever make the Wings.

What place do you all think Mitchell Callahan ranks? I think he would crack the top-20 if Axelsson and Emmerton are removed, and that he is more likely to make the Wings than many of the top-20 prospects. I would be interested how the ranking would change if they were based on the expected number of NHL games a player will have.

[cjm502 165]

Two obvious changes I made myself.

Pulkkinen - 8.0-8.5D

Callahan - 5.5B

[hillbillywingsfan 792]

They have Kindl ranked 39th in the Top 50 nhl prospects. not bad i guess.

[Jesusberg 1,256]

great read! the only thing i would change is not having players such as abby, kindl, and ritola on the list as I would no longer consider them prospects. but overall great read

HF's general policy on prospects moving on is that a player must...

a) Play 65+ games in the NHL (playoffs not included)

b) Be 24 or older without reaching that games played milestone.

If they meet these, they're off the list. Abdelkader just missed the cut off point (54 games), so he won't be in the next one for sure.

I don't like the rankings, if youre the one who says one player is a 7.0C and such, you're very conservative... take Pittsburgh for example, they have a very shallow prospect pool but most of their top 20 are 7s or higher (14 of them)... the ranking themselves aren't bad per say, but some are weird, like Larsson still being so high after a bad season in GR and going back to Sweden.

I understand the gripe here with Larsson, but he still has the talent, so his number grade stays, while the letter grade drops. I dropped him quite a bit since the last list, primarily because of his move to Sweden.

I'm a very conservative ranker, I guess. I think a lot of the time prospects get shuffled around way too much. Another writer overrating his prospects doesn't really influence me, to be honest. According to HF's ranking system a 7.0-7.5 is a 2nd line player, or 3-4 defenseman. I think right now guys like Sheahan, Pulkkinen, Tatar, etc have a bit more to prove before I call them first line potential. The closest guy to getting bumped up is Tatar. If he plays well again this season I won't hesitate to bump him to an 8.0+ (first liner).

Dick Axelsson shouldn't be anywhere near the top 20.

Same as the Larsson deal. Axelsson still has skill, more than quite a few of the players on that list. His issue is that he has a poor attitude and he doesn't wanna play in North America. HF ranks players on their raw skill above all else. When I first started I factored in NHL readiness quite a bit, but that's not the way they like things done.

Two obvious changes I made myself.

Pulkkinen - 8.0-8.5D

Callahan - 5.5B

I had Pulkkinen at an 8.0D at one point, and then I changed it. To me, he has to prove he can play in the FNL. He tore it up in their Jr. league, and at the U20's, but to me he's gotta show he can hang at the higher level. I do agree he's got lots of skills and raw potential.

Thanks for all the criticism guys.

Edited August 30, 2010 by Jesusberg

[Shaman 713]

HF's general policy on prospects moving on is that a player must...

a) Play 65+ games in the NHL (playoffs not included)

b) Be 24 or older without reaching that games played milestone.

If they meet these, they're off the list. Abdelkader just missed the cut off point (54 games), so he won't be in the next one for sure.

I understand the gripe here with Larsson, but he still has the talent, so his number grade stays, while the letter grade drops. I dropped him quite a bit since the last list, primarily because of his move to Sweden.

I'm a very conservative ranker, I guess. I think a lot of the time prospects get shuffled around way too much. Another writer overrating his prospects doesn't really influence me, to be honest. According to HF's ranking system a 7.0-7.5 is a 2nd line player, or 3-4 defenseman. I think right now guys like Sheahan, Pulkkinen, Tatar, etc have a bit more to prove before I call them first line potential. The closest guy to getting bumped up is Tatar. If he plays well again this season I won't hesitate to bump him to an 8.0+ (first liner).

Same as the Larsson deal. Axelsson still has skill, more than quite a few of the players on that list. His issue is that he has a poor attitude and he doesn't wanna play in North America. HF ranks players on their raw skill above all else. When I first started I factored in NHL readiness quite a bit, but that's not the way they like things done.

I had Pulkkinen at an 8.0D at one point, and then I changed it. To me, he has to prove he can play in the FNL. He tore it up in their Jr. league, and at the U20's, but to me he's gotta show he can hang at the higher level. I do agree he's got lots of skills and raw potential.

Thanks for all the criticism guys.

There really should be a more standardized way to rank them... as it looks like the wings aren't that deep in prospects when Id rank their pool top ten in the league.

[Jesusberg 1,256]

There really should be a more standardized way to rank them... as it looks like the wings aren't that deep in prospects when Id rank their pool top ten in the league.

There's a process where we submit our proposed Top 20 for the entire writing team to view. They then comment on any changes that they think might need to be made, but really it's up to the team's writer to decide. I personally feel that Detroit is somewhere in the middle of the pack right now, but if guys like Tatar, Nyquist, Sheahan, Pulkkinen and Jarnkrok have solid seasons, they could break through into the top 10 for sure.

Edited August 30, 2010 by Jesusberg

[newfy 695]

There's a process where we submit our proposed Top 20 for the entire writing team to view. They then comment on any changes that they think might need to be made, but really it's up to the team's writer to decide. I personally feel that Detroit is somewhere in the middle of the pack right now, but if guys like Tatar, Nyquist, Sheahan, Pulkkinen and Jarnkrok have solid seasons, they could break through into the top 10 for sure.

Okay so in these write ups it always talks about Sheahan being a possible power forward. So what I would like ot know is does this guy throw his weight around a lot and ever make big hits?

[Jesusberg 1,256]

Okay so in these write ups it always talks about Sheahan being a possible power forward. So what I would like ot know is does this guy throw his weight around a lot and ever make big hits?

He's certainly capable of it. He's not the biggest or meanest hitter on the ice, but he can throw his weight around if the need occurs. He's only 18 now and weighs 202 pounds, a lot of it being muscle. Say he gets up to 215-220 and retains his skill level... that's one scary dude.

Sheahan has gotten favorable comparisons to Rick Nash, who still hits a respectable amount. So I guess right now he's more of a protect the puck with his size guy... a "new age" power forward if you will. He's more Rick Nash than he is Dustin Brown.

I was really down on this pick when Detroit first made it. I'm a little embarrassed about how I was harping on the guy, when in reality he could turn out to be a complete beast for the team. I have really high hopes for this him.

Edited August 30, 2010 by Jesusberg

[WorkingOvertime 536]

He's certainly capable of it. He's not the biggest or meanest hitter on the ice, but he can throw his weight around if the need occurs. He's only 18 now and weighs 202 pounds, a lot of it being muscle. Say he gets up to 215-220 and retains his skill level... that's one scary dude.

Sheahan has gotten favorable comparisons to Rick Nash, who still hits a respectable amount. So I guess right now he's more of a protect the puck with his size guy... a "new age" power forward if you will. He's more Rick Nash than he is Dustin Brown.

I was really down on this pick when Detroit first made it. I'm a little embarrassed about how I was harping on the guy, when in reality he could turn out to be a complete beast for the team. I have really high hopes for this him.

Have the Wings put forth a possible time-line for his development? It seems like Notre Dame might hinder his offensive development compared to the OHL or AHL if he stays for a few more seasons. Is it possible that he joins the Griffins next year, or will he likely play 3 to 4 years in the NCAA?

[Jesusberg 1,256]

Have the Wings put forth a possible time-line for his development? It seems like Notre Dame might hinder his offensive development compared to the OHL or AHL if he stays for a few more seasons. Is it possible that he joins the Griffins next year, or will he likely play 3 to 4 years in the NCAA?

My best guess is that they'll at least let him ride it out for three years. Generally, guys in college play for three seasons, and then if they feel their development is far enough along they'll allow them to jump into the AHL or even NHL. It could also depend on what Sheahan wants for himself in terms of an education. He could want to finalize his degree in the four years. Abdelkader spent three years at MSU if I remember correctly, and then decided to take summer classes after he left to finish his degree, so anything is possible.

I definitely agree that ND could hinder his offensive growth though. They're such a defensive school that it might be hard for him to branch out. They even had him play defense last season when the injury bug hit them hard.

[titanium2 867]

Thanks for all the criticism guys.

I didn't read your OP very carefully and so I didn't notice when you said it was you who wrote that. It wouldn't be my top 20 list (I should really come up with one) but I understand if you have to follow guidelines to keep the job. Great work! I envy you big time.

Are you allowed to post on here your own ranking if you went by your own, but wisely guided, rules?

Edited August 30, 2010 by titanium2

[Jesusberg 1,256]

I didn't read your OP very carefully and so I didn't notice when you said it was you who wrote that. It wouldn't be my top 20 list (I should really come up with one) but I understand if you have to follow guidelines to keep the job. Great work! I envy you big time.

Are you allowed to post on here your own ranking if you went by your own, but wisely guided, rules?

I'm not 100% on what I'm allowed, or not allowed to do on here, but if I wanted to post my own rankings I probably just would. It wouldn't be a slight against them at all, and actually my rankings would be similar to what I have now, save a few tweaks.

The whole thing is I've posted on these boards quite a bit lately, and so I figured it'd be nice to get some feedback. There's always healthy debate about... everything on the boards. Prospect ranking isn't the easiest thing in the world, as it can be pretty subjective at times.

[titanium2 867]

I'm not 100% on what I'm allowed, or not allowed to do on here, but if I wanted to post my own rankings I probably just would. It wouldn't be a slight against them at all, and actually my rankings would be similar to what I have now, save a few tweaks.

The whole thing is I've posted on these boards quite a bit lately, and so I figured it'd be nice to get some feedback. There's always healthy debate about... everything on the boards. Prospect ranking isn't the easiest thing in the world, as it can be pretty subjective at times.

Every time I try to make up my own prospect ranking I usually stick to some general principles.

Tatar is imo the undisputed #1 simply because I haven't seen a Red Wings prospect like him on such fast track. Datsyuk and Zetterberg weren't even on such a fast track. He was the youngest player in the AHL (I think) who wanted to play in a man's league and succeeded even though many thought he shouldn't, including the Red Wings brass.

When it comes to Jan Mursak I'd actually rather go with the safe route in ranking him. Right now, for some reason, I can't help but think of Patrick Eaves when I try to think of how well he'll do in the NHL if he makes it. I'd rather classify him as a tweener right now instead of a sure lock for top six forward, which generally bumps him down a little because as you know, players who project to be top six receive higher rankings.

Even though McCollum has a much higher upside than Larsson I feel like those two should be right next to each other. For the most part Larsson played pretty well here in NA to the point in which he should be pretty close to McCollum in any ranking.

I also feel as if Lashoff and Nicastro shouldn't be too far apart either. About 2-3 spots at most. I think they both have similar strengths and NHL upside (4-6) along with the fact that I think they've both shown that they're just as likely to reach that potential relative to each other. It's just that Lashoff is ahead of Nicastro in terms of years because he chose CHL and not the NCAA route.

Another pair who I think shouldn't be too far apart because of upside is Ritola and Andersson, both of which have drawn comparisons to Filppula. Andersson is much younger but I think his size and international achievements pull him close to Ritola in any ranking.

[redwingfan19 293]

redwings 2015 top line

tatar/sheahan/pulkinen

[Datsyerberger 279]

Some thoughts from me:

McCollum feels underrated, I think of him more as a 7.5-8C then a 7.5D. Despite that, though, I agree with whoever it was that said he and Larsson should be close, probably separated by no more than 2 rankings.

Pulkkinen, as one person noted, has more of an 8-8.5 potential, but is definitely a D rather than the C given to him on there. He could be awesome, or his injuries could ruin him.

Almqvist could be more of a 7.5D

Ritola is more of a 6.5B then a 6.5C. And if nothing else, should be ahead of Axelsson at this point.

I like Nyqvist, but feel he's a touch overrated. I'm thinking 7.0C

Abdelkader is maybe more of a 7.0B then a 7.5C.

Smith could be an 8.0C if Kindl is.

On the whole, though, fairly solid list.

Edited August 31, 2010 by Datsyerberger

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

redwings 2015 top line

tatar/sheahan/pulkinen

that's a great 2nd line...dats and Z should still be around in 2015.

i like the 1st line of:

dats - Z - nyquist

a third line of flip - helm - andersson sounds nice too rounded out with sheahan - abby - ferraro

that's a while away though...

i'm also very interested to see how the D situation works itself out when lids retires. with smith, almqvist, lashoff, nicastro, etc the wings should have young depth to fill spots with. kindl will hopefully pan out this year and by the sounds of it, it smith has a strong year in GR, he should have a good chance to make the 2011-12 wings team. almqvist shouldn't be too far behind smith as soon as he adds some more muscle.

[Jesusberg 1,256]

Every time I try to make up my own prospect ranking I usually stick to some general principles.

Tatar is imo the undisputed #1 simply because I haven't seen a Red Wings prospect like him on such fast track. Datsyuk and Zetterberg weren't even on such a fast track. He was the youngest player in the AHL (I think) who wanted to play in a man's league and succeeded even though many thought he shouldn't, including the Red Wings brass.

When it comes to Jan Mursak I'd actually rather go with the safe route in ranking him. Right now, for some reason, I can't help but think of Patrick Eaves when I try to think of how well he'll do in the NHL if he makes it. I'd rather classify him as a tweener right now instead of a sure lock for top six forward, which generally bumps him down a little because as you know, players who project to be top six receive higher rankings.

Even though McCollum has a much higher upside than Larsson I feel like those two should be right next to each other. For the most part Larsson played pretty well here in NA to the point in which he should be pretty close to McCollum in any ranking.

I also feel as if Lashoff and Nicastro shouldn't be too far apart either. About 2-3 spots at most. I think they both have similar strengths and NHL upside (4-6) along with the fact that I think they've both shown that they're just as likely to reach that potential relative to each other. It's just that Lashoff is ahead of Nicastro in terms of years because he chose CHL and not the NCAA route.

Another pair who I think shouldn't be too far apart because of upside is Ritola and Andersson, both of which have drawn comparisons to Filppula. Andersson is much younger but I think his size and international achievements pull him close to Ritola in any ranking.

I agree with the McCollum (#8) and Larsson (#9) closeness. I also agree with Lashoff and Nicastro being close, and both are just outside the Top 20... somewhere from 21-23. Ritola (#17) and Andersson (#20) are also close, and I would give the edge physically to Andersson here. I hope he can add a little offense to his game and become the third line center in the future.

While I do agree that Tatar is on the fast track, I also feel as if he slowed down at the end of last season quite a bit. After his play at the World Juniors, he really stopped putting up the points. Don't get me wrong though, if he bursts out of the gates next season I won't hesitate to make him an 8.0+. It all depends on how well Smith plays as well, as I think those two will battle it out for #1.

As far as Mursak is concerned, I may have a bit of a soft spot for the guy. I kept him ranked fairly high during and after his dismal rookie season, something I caught a lot of flack for. He's got speed that's comparable to Helm's with the hands to match it. He's also a very strong puck handler, zipping through the defense with ease at times. I believe he'll be a 30+ goal scorer next season.

Some thoughts from me:

McCollum feels underrated, I think of him more as a 7.5-8C then a 7.5D. Despite that, though, I agree with whoever it was that said he and Larsson should be close, probably separated by no more than 2 rankings.

Pulkkinen, as one person noted, has more of an 8-8.5 potential, but is definitely a D rather than the C given to him on there. He could be awesome, or his injuries could ruin him.

Almqvist could be more of a 7.5D

Ritola is more of a 6.5B then a 6.5C. And if nothing else, should be ahead of Axelsson at this point.

I like Nyqvist, but feel he's a touch overrated. I'm thinking 7.0C

Abdelkader is maybe more of a 7.0B then a 7.5C.

Smith could be an 8.0C if Kindl is.

On the whole, though, fairly solid list.

McCollum was a toughie for me. He's got that blue chip potential, but he just couldn't seem to put it together last season. He didn't play well at all for Team USA, in Grands Rapids or even for Toledo when he was sent down to the ECHL. That being said, I think he'll bounce back this year, and he has the safety of a veteran goalie partner with Joey MacDonald there.

Pulkkinen was kind of tough for me as well. I had him at a 7.5D initially if I remember right, but a 7.0C is pretty similar when it comes down to it. If/when he shows he can play in the higher leagues, and not just the Jr. FNL, he could see his stock rise on the list.

The same situation applies to Almqvist too. Once he proves he can play steady in the regular season with HV 71 he'll move up. He's already received a pretty big jump from #20 to #14, and I expect big things out of him.

Ritola could be a 6.5B, I guess that remains to be seen. Like I said in a previous post, though, Axelsson is still on their because of his raw skill.

I think Nyquist is where he should be. He had such a strong season for Maine... doubling his point totals, being a top 3 finalist for the Hobey Baker and still maintaining his excellent two-way play. I'm very high on Nyquist at this point.

Agreed with Abdelkader, as he could very well be a 7.0B. Some of the other writers on HF told me about a certain scout raving about Abdelkader, discussing his potential to be a power forward in the future. When it comes down to it though, he'll be off the next list anyway as he only has to play 11 games to "graduate".

Once Smith shows he can play well in the AHL, he'll likely get that C letter grade.

Thank-you for complimenting the list and giving some feedback. I really appreciate it.

EDIT: As a side note, can anyone tell me how long it takes for the "Booster" logo to show up under my name. I contributed some money the other day and I'm just wondering when it should appear.

Edited September 1, 2010 by Jesusberg

[cjm502 165]

I had Pulkkinen at an 8.0D at one point, and then I changed it. To me, he has to prove he can play in the FNL. He tore it up in their Jr. league, and at the U20's, but to me he's gotta show he can hang at the higher level. I do agree he's got lots of skills and raw potential.

Check out his stats from this year, I cant find them right now but im pretty sure he is at over a ppg. Can someone help me out?

[Jusek 437]

Check out his stats from this year, I cant find them right now but im pretty sure he is at over a ppg. Can someone help me out?

4 games, 2+4=6 in European Trophy. Finnish Elite League has not started yet. I'm eager to see what he can do in FEL...

Edited September 2, 2010 by Jusek

[eva unit zero 271]

I've rated all of the HF-eligible Wings prospects I am aware of (number and letter), and ranked them according to the HF ranking method based on the given ratings. My list of 39 prospects is as follows:

1) 8.0B D Jakub Kindl

2) 8.0B D Brendan Smith

3) 8.0B F Tomas Tatar

4) 8.0B G Thomas McCollum

5) 7.5B F Gustav Nyqvist

6) 7.5B F Justin Abdelkader

7) 7.5B F Jan Mursak

8) 7.5B F Landon Ferraro

9) 7.5B F Calle Jarnkrok

10) 7.5B D Logan Pyett

11) 7.5B F Louis-Marc Aubry

12) 8.0C F Teemu Pulkkinen

13) 8.0C F Riley Sheahan

14) 7.0B D Adam Almqvist

15) 7.0B D Sergei Kolosov

16) 7.0B D Max Nicastro

17) 7.5C G Daniel Larsson

18) 7.5C D Brian Lashoff

19) 7.5C F Andrej Nestrasil

20) 7.5C D Benjamin Marshall

21) 6.5B D Gleason Fournier

22) 6.5B F Joakim Andersson

23) 6.5B F Mattias Ritola

24) 6.5B G Petr Mrazek

25) 8.0D F Gennady Stolyarov

26) 7.0C F Brooks Macek

27) 7.0C G Jordan Pearce

28) 7.0C F Willie Coetzee

29) 6.0B F Anton Axelsson

30) 6.5C F Cory Emmerton

31) 6.5C F Francis Pare

32) 6.5C D Sebastien Piche

33) 7.5D F Dick Axelsson

34) 5.5B F Mitchell Callahan

35) 6.0C F Brent Raedeke

36) 6.0C F Julien Cayer

37) 5.0B D Travis Ehrhardt

38) 6.5D F Jesper Samuelsson

39) 5.5C F Nick Oslund

Edited September 3, 2010 by eva unit zero

[titanium2 867]

RWC's ratings are supposedly very close to the way Kenny and Co. would rank them.

Not sure how much I believe that personally. Daniel Larsson somehow is not even good enough for the top 25 anymore? Just because he wanted to develop in Sweden? That doesn't make much sense to me.