93 replies to this topic

[SouthernWingsFan]

[mindfly]

Imagine if Tatar plays like a possessed little man in training camp, would he crack the roster? kenny always say "we will put the best team on the ice every night" but i don't think that's the truth, then draper, maltby etc would have been ditched 2 seasons ago...i almost feel sad for the young guns reading how they hope to crack their roster but even if they outplayed some players they would still keep them in the farm team, cause that's what ken holland do, they don't have to go through waivers so just let them get overdone in grand rapids instead, in most cases this is good, but some players just have elite talent that needs to get to the nhl earlier, has there even been a prospect with maximum 1 year in GR that has cracked the detroit line-up after 04-05 lockout? (not counting franzen as he was alot older) Hudler one year? Kronwall one year? hmm is that all? did filppula play 1 or 2 year in ahl?

Edited by mindfly, 31 August 2010 - 07:34 AM.

[mmamolo]

Why would a fan possibly care if it's a two-way deal or not? Do you pay his salary?

A two-way contract is important because of the money that's paid to the player. It's important because of the waiver status of that player throughout the season. A player on a two-way contract only has to clear waivers once and then is free to being called up and being sent down freely as many times as you'd like throughout the season without having to expose him to waivers again and again where as players on one-way contracts would have to clear waivers and re-entry waivers each and every time.

Holland doesn't care about the few hundred k difference in salary he'd have to give Maltby but having to go through the waiver process each time he wants to bring him up or send him down and risk losing him kind of defeats the purpose of the signing.

On top of that a signing like this, where the player is all but guaranteed to start the year in the AHL, is almost always guaranteed to work because almost every single team starts the year off with an abundance of players on their roster. As each team trims their roster down and sends their own players down to the AHL no one really has the room to claim someone on a two-way deal you're sending down (Maltby) which means he's cleared waivers for the one and only time he needs to for the year. Now you can bring him up and send him down a thousand times if you want and no one can touch him.

[eva unit zero]

A two-way contract is important because of the money that's paid to the player. It's important because of the waiver status of that player throughout the season. A player on a two-way contract only has to clear waivers once and then is free to being called up and being sent down freely as many times as you'd like throughout the season without having to expose him to waivers again and again where as players on one-way contracts would have to clear waivers and re-entry waivers each and every time.

Holland doesn't care about the few hundred k difference in salary he'd have to give Maltby but having to go through the waiver process each time he wants to bring him up or send him down and risk losing him kind of defeats the purpose of the signing.

On top of that a signing like this, where the player is all but guaranteed to start the year in the AHL, is almost always guaranteed to work because almost every single team starts the year off with an abundance of players on their roster. As each team trims their roster down and sends their own players down to the AHL no one really has the room to claim someone on a two-way deal you're sending down (Maltby) which means he's cleared waivers for the one and only time he needs to for the year. Now you can bring him up and send him down a thousand times if you want and no one can touch him.

Players on one-way contracts receive their NHL salary no matter what league they are playing in.

Players on two-way contracts receive their NHL salary when playing in the NHL and receive a smaller salary when playing in the AHL or another minor league.

This is the ONLY difference between the two. There is no effect on waiver status whatsoever.

Imagine if Tatar plays like a possessed little man in training camp, would he crack the roster? kenny always say "we will put the best team on the ice every night" but i don't think that's the truth, then draper, maltby etc would have been ditched 2 seasons ago...i almost feel sad for the young guns reading how they hope to crack their roster but even if they outplayed some players they would still keep them in the farm team, cause that's what ken holland do, they don't have to go through waivers so just let them get overdone in grand rapids instead, in most cases this is good, but some players just have elite talent that needs to get to the nhl earlier, has there even been a prospect with maximum 1 year in GR that has cracked the detroit line-up after 04-05 lockout? (not counting franzen as he was alot older) Hudler one year? Kronwall one year? hmm is that all? did filppula play 1 or 2 year in ahl?

Jiri Hudler played 12 games for the Wings in his first pro season in North America in 2003-04. He started the season at 19.

[Z Winged Dangler]

Imagine if Tatar plays like a possessed little man in training camp, would he crack the roster? kenny always say "we will put the best team on the ice every night" but i don't think that's the truth, then draper, maltby etc would have been ditched 2 seasons ago...i almost feel sad for the young guns reading how they hope to crack their roster but even if they outplayed some players they would still keep them in the farm team, cause that's what ken holland do, they don't have to go through waivers so just let them get overdone in grand rapids instead, in most cases this is good, but some players just have elite talent that needs to get to the nhl earlier, has there even been a prospect with maximum 1 year in GR that has cracked the detroit line-up after 04-05 lockout? (not counting franzen as he was alot older) Hudler one year? Kronwall one year? hmm is that all? did filppula play 1 or 2 year in ahl?

i'm with you on this. i don't like losing guys like quincey and leino who didn't get any ice time to tap out their real potential. leino was a big player in philly's cup run and in a way it hurt. draper and maltby were done a couple years ago as far as effectiveness goes. if malts signs, he better be a mentor in GR all year. ice time shouldn't be given to him over guys like ritola, miller or even meech if there's injuries. and if there is injuries, i'd rather see tatar if a fwd is needed and smith if a dman is needed to see how they handle "the show" when called up. maltby should work with the likes of andersson as it seems that he will eventually have the same type of role as a grinder with the wings in years to come. after this season there will be a few spots to be taken by the young guys as well. possible retirees are modano, lids, draper, ozzy, maltby. that's atleast a roster spot at F, D and goal. lets hope mccollum doesn't play s***ty this year and howard and the wings brass can be comfortable with the howard/mccollum tandem. forward spot after this season sounds like tatar may be the guy as long as he continues to improve and that other D spot has smith's name all over it. so if someone else wants one of those spots, they better impress like crazy.

all in all, maltby needs to stay in GR ALL year and help out the team that employed him way past when he was useful.

[mindfly]

For sure (holmstrom style), I will get pissed off if i see maltby in the winged wheel this season, thanks for what you did in the late 90s and early 00's but please let's move on and bring in the kids as this team needs to get younger pretty soon.

[Casey]

Players on one-way contracts receive their NHL salary no matter what league they are playing in.

Players on two-way contracts receive their NHL salary when playing in the NHL and receive a smaller salary when playing in the AHL or another minor league.

This is the ONLY difference between the two. There is no effect on waiver status whatsoever.[/font]



Jiri Hudler played 12 games for the Wings in his first pro season in North America in 2003-04. He started the season at 19.[/font]

He gets his NHL salary, yes, but the big club doesn't pay it. That's the key here.

[eva unit zero]

He gets his NHL salary, yes, but the big club doesn't pay it. That's the key here.

Huh?

He still gets paid his contracted salary and is still pid by the Wings no matter where he plays.

I think you are confusing cap and salary.

If he is in the AHL, his CAP HIT is not counted against the team. One-way deal or two-way deal, he's still paid by the Wings regardless of where he plays.

[Barrie]

#8

#3 gives me chills every time!

I'd like to see a list sometime of the most important goals, not just the prettiest. DMac's would be there, along with Kozlov's OT GWG from the 1995 WFC, Yzerman's OT GWG Game 7 1996 vs. St.Louis, Shanny's empty netter Game 6 1997 WFC, Draper's OT winner in the 1998 Final, Larionov's OT GWG Game 3 2002, Shanny's EN Game 5 2002 Final, the Turd Goal (Zetterberg's) in the 2008 Final, and the OT GWG's in the 2009 WCF by Samuelsson and Helm.

There's 10 off the top of my head! Man, we've seen a lot of great moment!

[chrisdetroit]

i'm with you on this. i don't like losing guys like quincey and leino who didn't get any ice time to tap out their real potential. leino was a big player in philly's cup run and in a way it hurt. draper and maltby were done a couple years ago as far as effectiveness goes. if malts signs, he better be a mentor in GR all year. ice time shouldn't be given to him over guys like ritola, miller or even meech if there's injuries. and if there is injuries, i'd rather see tatar if a fwd is needed and smith if a dman is needed to see how they handle "the show" when called up. maltby should work with the likes of andersson as it seems that he will eventually have the same type of role as a grinder with the wings in years to come. after this season there will be a few spots to be taken by the young guys as well. possible retirees are modano, lids, draper, ozzy, maltby. that's atleast a roster spot at F, D and goal. lets hope mccollum doesn't play s***ty this year and howard and the wings brass can be comfortable with the howard/mccollum tandem. forward spot after this season sounds like tatar may be the guy as long as he continues to improve and that other D spot has smith's name all over it. so if someone else wants one of those spots, they better impress like crazy.

all in all, maltby needs to stay in GR ALL year and help out the team that employed him way past when he was useful.

That's not true. Leino was given every possible opportunity and then some. His average TOI per month was:

Oct 14:20
Nov 13:59
Dec 13:16
Jan 9:13

Apr 14:54
May 15:39

He was only playing 34 seconds more per game with Philly in the playoffs than he was averaging with the Wings in October. These are similar numbers to Darren Helm and he seemed to be doing okay with his ice time.

Incidently Leino is cursed. 2 Stanley cup finals losses in 2 years with different teams...

[eva unit zero]

Incidently Leino is cursed. 2 Stanley cup finals losses in 2 years with different teams...

Makes you wonder why better players didn't sign with Philly on the cheap then, since they're clearly winning the Cup in 2011...

Hossa was cursed in 08 and 09. Won the Cup in 2010.

I'm sure other players have fallen under this curse as well and then broken it.

And it's "Incidentally" just for reference. Sorry, spelling and grammar mistakes are a pet peeve, as I used to get paid to correct them.

[Doggy]

A two-way contract is important because of the money that's paid to the player. It's important because of the waiver status of that player throughout the season. A player on a two-way contract only has to clear waivers once and then is free to being called up and being sent down freely as many times as you'd like throughout the season without having to expose him to waivers again and again where as players on one-way contracts would have to clear waivers and re-entry waivers each and every time.

Holland doesn't care about the few hundred k difference in salary he'd have to give Maltby but having to go through the waiver process each time he wants to bring him up or send him down and risk losing him kind of defeats the purpose of the signing.

On top of that a signing like this, where the player is all but guaranteed to start the year in the AHL, is almost always guaranteed to work because almost every single team starts the year off with an abundance of players on their roster. As each team trims their roster down and sends their own players down to the AHL no one really has the room to claim someone on a two-way deal you're sending down (Maltby) which means he's cleared waivers for the one and only time he needs to for the year. Now you can bring him up and send him down a thousand times if you want and no one can touch him.

I've never read anything at all that even slightly resembles this within the CBA, and I feel I know it pretty well. Where do you have this information from?

My understanding of it is this: the only difference between a one- and two-way contract, is the money that comes out of Mike Ilitch's bank account. So why would a fan care?

[Datsyerberger]

I've never read anything at all that even slightly resembles this within the CBA, and I feel I know it pretty well. Where do you have this information from?

My understanding of it is this: the only difference between a one- and two-way contract, is the money that comes out of Mike Ilitch's bank account. So why would a fan care?

Sorta a repost from earlier in the thread, but with some rephrasing:

I think more than anything, from a fan perspective, it shows that the player knows he might or is going to play in the minors, and is willing to take a pay cut in doing so. This means that A: he's going to have to bust his ass off to make and stay on the roster, and/or B: he's dedicated enough to the team to stick around in the minors for another chance at making the roster/coming in during the playoffs/getting a chance at the cup. The fan cares because (especially in the case of an older player who could just retire) it's a demonstration of dedication to more than just another paycheck. What does, say, a 110k paycheck at a 20% (rather generous by 2-way standards) really mean to Malts at this point? He's still around because he still wants to play hockey and maybe still has the drive to win. It'd be harder to say the same (more in regards to the latter) if he rejected the two-way clause.

Edited by Datsyerberger, 01 September 2010 - 06:06 AM.

[Z and D for the C]

I think it shows intent of the Wings' front office. Everyone knows that Maltby is probably never going to play in a Wings uniform again. Even on injury call ups, we'd have to lose half our team for him to even be on the scratched roster up with the wings. What I think they're going to do is, on the NHl salary, give him an outrageous amount like 1-1.5m and then a "normal" AHL salary. This way the Wings organization is still great to Maltby, what with paying him, but he's pretty much sure to clear waivers because no one would pick him up at that NHL salary. Because as far as I know he still has to clear waivers to go to GR, but I might be wrong.

[mindfly]

No one would pick up maltby even if he had a league minimum contract, that's why he ain't got a contract at the moment.

Edited by mindfly, 01 September 2010 - 09:04 AM.

[Hank Dats 'N Homer]

i was hoping to see him get an offer somewhere. I thought Stevie was ganna give him a cheap contract in Tampa for some depth and veteran leadership. I hate to see guys retire in the minors. He probably wont be getting alot of NHL playing time on this years wings team unless injury (and even then hes not the first call up im sure). Just wish he would go out atleast still being a pro player ya know?

[Hatethedrake!]

If anything, this will create a competitive atmosphere at Wings Training Camp. Guys like Miller and Ritola know they have to work their asses off to make the team because Maltby is there. As others have said, when injuries hit it will be nice to have the option of calling Maltby up. I'd sooner give a young guy like Tatar or Mursak the call up instead to give them a taste of what the NHL is like. No matter what happens we can all be thankful that Jason Williams is no longer a Detroit Red Wing. I just love saying those words.

[Electrophile]

Excellent news. Welcome back, Malts.

[brett]

#8

lids goal impressed the s*** out of me. that was awesome

[55fan]

Bring him up as a black ace and let him skate once more with the Cup, even if he doesn't get his name on it again. Then let him and Drapes ride off into the sunset together, with the love and good wishes of many a Red Wings fan.

If this comes true, I'm a happy camper.