63 replies to this topic

[Heaten]

This has nothing to do with evaluating the kids, (cause that's what GR is for), and everything to do with you not liking enforcers. Plain and simple. As much as you complain about them being useless, enforcers are still on every team in the league (there's my old material Doc! ). I guess you're just smarter than every GM and coach in the NHL then right? Maybe Babs knows something you don't?

esteef

Who's Red Wings enforcer to start this season? Who was Red Wings enforcer when they won the cup in 2008? I guess enforces really aren't "on every team" after all. Imagine that...

Red Wings enforcer:

/insert Red Wings 2008 championship photo here

[Broken 16]

...

Edit:

Go Downey. More power to ya.

Edited by Broken 16, 26 September 2010 - 03:26 PM.

[esteef]

Who's Red Wings enforcer to start this season? Who was Red Wings enforcer when they won the cup in 2008? I guess enforces really aren't "on every team" after all. Imagine that...

Red Wings enforcer:

/insert Red Wings 2008 championship photo here

Edited by esteef, 26 September 2010 - 07:18 PM.

[Heaten]

Oh right, he played a whopping 0 playoff games. How could one ever forget the significance of his great playoff performance, seriously?.

Yet you still failed to answer the question... who's Red Wings enforcer for 2011 going to be? I'm all for a McCarty type guy, just not a useless goon. Big difference. I'll take Owens over Downey. But I'll take Miller over both.

Let me repeat, he played 0 playoff games in 2008

Edited by Heaten, 26 September 2010 - 07:25 PM.

[WorkingOvertime]

Oh right, he played a whopping 0 playoff games. How could one ever forget the significance of his great playoff performance, seriously?.

Yet you still failed to answer the question... who's Red Wings enforcer for 2011 going to be? I'm all for a McCarty type guy, just not a useless goon. Big difference. I'll take Owens over Downey. But I'll take Miller over both.

Let me repeat, he played 0 playoff games in 2008

Who here is arguing that Downey should play in any playoffs games should he make the team? That isn't the argument. The argument is whether or not Downey should be playing the the preseason games and (extending this) if he should be signed.

In my last post I outlined my argument for Downey this season. While I won't be too upset if he isn't signed (since he would be in the press box a lot), I think there is a logical and valid argument for signing him.

[esteef]

Oh right, he played a whopping 0 playoff games. How could one ever forget the significance of his great playoff performance, seriously?.

Yet you still failed to answer the question... who's Red Wings enforcer for 2011 going to be? I'm all for a McCarty type guy, just not a useless goon. Big difference. I'll take Owens over Downey. But I'll take Miller over both.

Let me repeat, he played 0 playoff games in 2008

Back peddling already eh? Can't win the Cup if you don't make the playoffs first. Something Downey helped us do.

P.S. Big fonts are fun.

esteef

Edited by esteef, 27 September 2010 - 12:00 AM.

[Heaten]

Back peddling already eh? Can't win the Cup if you don't make the playoffs first. Something Downey helped us do.

P.S. Big fonts are fun.

esteef

Yes, Downey was the savior of the team in 2007/08. Wings had 115 points, 257 Goals For, and Downey scored 0 of those goals. Shew, good thing Downey played those incredible regular season games, because Red Wings would never have scored 257 goals and closed the season with 115 points and made the playoffs without him. Wings would have been the 2010 Oilers if not for Downey's whopping 3 assists that year.

Your ingenious logic is something very.... special.

I like comedians cause they make me laugh!

[WorkingOvertime]

Yes, Downey was the savior of the team in 2007/08. Wings had 115 points, 257 Goals For, and Downey scored 0 of those goals. Shew, good thing Downey played those incredible regular season games, because Red Wings would never have scored 257 goals and closed the season with 115 points and made the playoffs without him. Wings would have been the 2010 Oilers if not for Downey's whopping 3 assists that year.

Your ingenious logic is something very.... special.

I like comedians cause they make me laugh!

Conversely, was Downey the reason that the Wings didn't have 120 points in 2008? It's fine to argue that he didn't add much offense, but he wasn't the only player not scoring 20+ points. The fourth line isn't supposed to have three 20+ point scorers- that's why they're paid 500k-1m.

I'll paste my last post here again since you seem to be dodging it.

Downey is on a tryout with the Wings. Would it be responsible for the Wings to invite him and then not let him play? That is not how this organization works.

If the Wings carry 14 forwards I think there is a place for him on the team. If the 14th is only going to play ~30 games, would it make sense to have one of our younger prospects sitting out for ~50 games a season? The younger (more skilled) players need playing time to develop. With Draper as the 13th, the 14th will not play (unless there are a lot of injuries) much. In the case of injuries, the young players can be called-up. I think it would be a waste for I. Flip, Mursak, Tatar, etc. to be off the ice for a large amount of time. You could argue that Miller or Ritola are better options than Downey, but I am not sure they would want to be in the press-box that often.

[Heaten]

Conversely, was Downey the reason that the Wings didn't have 120 points in 2008? It's fine to argue that he didn't add much offense, but he wasn't the only player not scoring 20+ points. The fourth line isn't supposed to have three 20+ point scorers- that's why they're paid 500k-1m.

I'll paste my last post here again since you seem to be dodging it.

Downey is on a tryout with the Wings. Would it be responsible for the Wings to invite him and then not let him play? That is not how this organization works.

If the Wings carry 14 forwards I think there is a place for him on the team. If the 14th is only going to play ~30 games, would it make sense to have one of our younger prospects sitting out for ~50 games a season? The younger (more skilled) players need playing time to develop. With Draper as the 13th, the 14th will not play (unless there are a lot of injuries) much. In the case of injuries, the young players can be called-up. I think it would be a waste for I. Flip, Mursak, Tatar, etc. to be off the ice for a large amount of time. You could argue that Miller or Ritola are better options than Downey, but I am not sure they would want to be in the press-box that often.

I'd go:

12th spot Eaves
13th spot Miller
14th spot Ritola
15th spot Draper
16th spot Maltby

Wings are more than good on depth. If injuries happen like last year, Wings have Mursak, Owens, Emmerton and Tatar.... all of them showed so much more during preseason than Downey.

Good on depth... Check

Edited by Heaten, 27 September 2010 - 10:19 AM.

[esteef]

Yes, Downey was the savior of the team in 2007/08. Wings had 115 points, 257 Goals For, and Downey scored 0 of those goals. Shew, good thing Downey played those incredible regular season games, because Red Wings would never have scored 257 goals and closed the season with 115 points and made the playoffs without him. Wings would have been the 2010 Oilers if not for Downey's whopping 3 assists that year.

Your ingenious logic is something very.... special.

I like comedians cause they make me laugh!

Your boy Ritola had a whopping 0 goals as well. Was he our savior then? Was his contribution any more or less than Downey's? In fact, why was Downey called up over him if Ritola's so awesome? Please impart this keen knowledge you seem to posses that the rest of the hockey world does not.

esteef

Edited by esteef, 27 September 2010 - 10:49 AM.

[Heaten]

Your boy Ritola had a whopping 0 goals as well, but he damned sure got his name on the Cup. Was he our savior then? Was his contribution any more or less than Downey's? In fact, why was Downey called up over him if Ritola's so awesome? Please impart this keen knowledge you seem to posses that the rest of the hockey world does not.

esteef

In 2007? Ritola was 19- 20 yrs of age and just begun the early stages of training and development while Downey was 34yrs old. 2007/08 was Ritola's first year to play North American Hockey after coming from Sweden in 2006/07. And despite all that, Ritola was called up in 2007/08 to play two games in the big league. In those two games that he played in, he scored 1 point; he played the same number of games Justin Abdelkader did that year and out-scored Abdelkader (Abby and Ritola are the same age).

Is there anything else that'd like to know about hockey?

Edit, more on Ritola's 2007/08 first year of in North American hockey

2007/08:

• Surprised at Red Wings' training camp and appeared in five NHL exhibition games (5-2-0-2-4).
• One of Detroit's last cuts along with Jonathan Ericsson and Jimmy Howard.
• Saw regular ice time and was a two-way presence, although production was minimal (72-7-15-22).
• Posted a team-best plus-10 on a squad cluttered with minuses and had 117 shots.
• Earned two-game call-up to Detroit in March, recording an assist and averaging 5:46 of ice time.
• Called up to Detroit to serve as Black Ace (spare who doesn't play) during NHL playoffs.

Edited by Heaten, 27 September 2010 - 10:57 AM.

[esteef]

In 2007? Ritola was 19- 20 yrs of age and just begun the early stages of training and development while Downey was 34yrs old. 2007/08 was Ritola's first year to play North American Hockey after coming from Sweden in 2006/07. And despite all that, Ritola was called up in 2007/08 to play two games in the big league. In those two games he played, he scored 1 point; he played the same number of games Justin Abdelkader did that year and out-scored Abdelkader (Abby and Ritola are the same age).

Is there anything else that'd like to know about hockey?

Downey brought something to the team that Ritola (or anyone else in GR) did not. That's why he was called up over others and played fifty some odd games. Simply stating he didn't score goals therefore he's useless is idiotic.

esteef

[Heaten]

Downey brought something to the team that Ritola (or anyone else in GR) did not. That's why he was called up over others and played fifty some odd games. Simply stating he didn't score goals therefore he's useless is idiotic.

esteef

Or lack of depth...

Again, Ritola was 19 years old and never played North American hockey before. Why is that so hard to understand? Ritola is now 23 and had a chance to learn/develop NA style hockey, do you still think Downey is a better hockey player? Or are you going to argue that is not a fair comparison because Downey is much older now?

I'm not even sure why I am wasting my time debating this with you, you clearly value fighting over winning and like to compare oranges and apples.

[esteef]

Or lack of depth...

Again, Ritola was 19 years old and never played North American hockey before. Why is that so hard to understand? Ritola is now 23 and had a chance to learn/develop NA style hockey, do you still think Downey is a better hockey player? Or are you going to argue that is not a fair comparison because Downey is much older now?

I'm not even sure why I am wasting my time debating this with you, you clearly value fighting over winning and like to compare oranges and apples.

You slippery slope every one of your arguments. I don't value fighting over winning, because the two are not mutually exclusive. You seem to represent the current fantasy sport mentality in that if someone does not score a point they in turn provide nothing to the team. That's where you are mistaken but you're just too hell bent on attacking enforcers and their role in hockey to admit that. Good day.

esteef

Edited by esteef, 27 September 2010 - 11:26 AM.

[CaliWingsNut]

Oh right, he played a whopping 0 playoff games. How could one ever forget the significance of his great playoff performance, seriously?.

Yet you still failed to answer the question... who's Red Wings enforcer for 2011 going to be? I'm all for a McCarty type guy, just not a useless goon. Big difference. I'll take Owens over Downey. But I'll take Miller over both.

Let me repeat, he played 0 playoff games in 2008

[dobbles]

Your boy Ritola had a whopping 0 goals as well. Was he our savior then? Was his contribution any more or less than Downey's? In fact, why was Downey called up over him if Ritola's so awesome? Please impart this keen knowledge you seem to posses that the rest of the hockey world does not.

esteef

you know whats awesome though? ritola averaged more TOI in his games than downey did! so obviously mike babcock thought ritola was a better player by giving him more time out there. i guess his hockey knowledge trumps yours.

also, why the f*** do you have to put your name in all your posts? the forum shows who posts everything. why waste your time typing it? and before anyone asks why i care, its because i find it annoying. it causes extra line breaks which makes scrolling take longer. especially on a mobile device.

[dobbles]

you know the best thing about that fight? that it did NOTHING to make lidstrom heal faster. just like the game against the penguins the other night, it doesn't matter if you have a worthless goon on the bench, players will still be aggressive and people will get hurt.

i am all for fighting in hockey. i really am. but what is the point of a goon? they aren't a deterrent to dirty play. the only people goons fight are other goons. maltby has spent years being a ****** and never fights; because players can just skate away. guys like avery can go out there and be asshats all they want. because 55 minutes a game, the other teams goon is on the bench. and for the 5 minutes they happen to be out there, its against the other teams line of goons.

Edited by dobbles, 27 September 2010 - 11:44 AM.

[newfy]

Who's Red Wings enforcer to start this season? Who was Red Wings enforcer when they won the cup in 2008? I guess enforces really aren't "on every team" after all. Imagine that...

Red Wings enforcer:

/insert Red Wings 2008 championship photo here

Oh I remember why Downey didn't play any playoff games that year, because we had 2 other guys who could fight playing for us that playoff with Drake and Macarty. An old washed up Mac that played 18 games that playoff I beleive.


Are you going to argue Mac was good at hockey at that point in the 2008 playoffs?

[puckloo39]

sounds like he's gonna need to steal games in the preseason to get any in the reg season...

I thought Ozzie played well the other night, despite the brain farts in front of him. The goalies surely expect this, when they have babies out there. No big deal to Ozzie, I am sure, or Babs, if they louse up.

I have liked what I've seen of the kids so far. That's the whole point of pre-season, to me.

[Heaten]

Oh I remember why Downey didn't play any playoff games that year, because we had 2 other guys who could fight playing for us that playoff with Drake and Macarty. An old washed up Mac that played 18 games that playoff I beleive.


Are you going to argue Mac was good at hockey at that point in the 2008 playoffs?

Not really sure if that comment is there to help my argument or yours? But I'd definitely take a McCarty type player in his prime on this team any day of the week, he could actually play hockey. I never considered Drake an enforcer.

Edited by Heaten, 27 September 2010 - 11:57 AM.