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#21 Nightfall

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 06:55 PM

/facepalm

Whatever dude. unmetered bandwidth server packages start at $150 - $395 per month. Hockeystreams is somewhere in the middle. Do you tell a mechanic how to fix your vehicle when you take it into the shop for repairs? Online business is my career, and I am proud to say that I do it legally.

But whatever helps you sleep at night.

Good luck getting unlimited when you have thousands of users pushing that kind of bandwidth. I am also in the online industry, but I contract on the ISP side, and I am smart enough to know that those prices are not accurate. Providers like netelligent oversell their bandwidth all the time. They will not support thousands of users streaming video. If you think they will, then you are dreaming.
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#22 Heaten

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 07:15 PM

Good luck getting unlimited when you have thousands of users pushing that kind of bandwidth. I am also in the online industry, but I contract on the ISP side, and I am smart enough to know that those prices are not accurate. Providers like netelligent oversell their bandwidth all the time. They will not support thousands of users streaming video. If you think they will, then you are dreaming.


And I've built servers from the ground up and sold bandwidth. What's your point? They will support thousands of users. The facts remain the same, that website is selling intellectual property. Are you going to argue that it's not illegal now because you are an FBI agent and a Judge? :blink:

#23 Nightfall

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 07:32 PM

And I've built servers from the ground up and sold bandwidth. What's your point? They will support thousands of users. The facts remain the same, that website is selling intellectual property. Are you going to argue that it's not illegal now because you are an FBI agent and a Judge? :blink:

I am not arguing the intellectual property rights at all. I was merely correcting you in that the bandwidth costs are not a concern. If you want to change the subject in order to make a valid point so it makes you look right, then thats great. You can find someone else to debate with on that topic.
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#24 Heaten

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 07:43 PM

I am not arguing the intellectual property rights at all. I was merely correcting you in that the bandwidth costs are not a concern. If you want to change the subject in order to make a valid point so it makes you look right, then thats great. You can find someone else to debate with on that topic.


I already proved you wrong on the first point. I even sourced it from some random hosting service. One can even build a server in their own home or office if they so desire. It's not that complicating if you possess basic understanding. Not sure why this is so hard for you to understand?

#25 Nightfall

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 09:45 PM

I already proved you wrong on the first point. I even sourced it from some random hosting service. One can even build a server in their own home or office if they so desire. It's not that complicating if you possess basic understanding. Not sure why this is so hard for you to understand?

I can point out a lot of providers who say "unlimited" bandwidth, but when push comes to shove, they will not allow you to push that much. Residential broadband providers and hosted solutions may say "unlimited" but when you start pushing a lot through the provider, you will find your account suspended or canceled. True unlimited bandwidth costs are astronomical. If you knew the industry and how shared hosting works, you would understand that.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I know how the industry works and know companies that have lost hosting privileges because of excessive bandwidth when the provider false advertises, and you can find a lot of providers who say unlimited.

Edited by Nightfall, 29 September 2010 - 09:57 PM.

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#26 Heaten

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 11:43 PM

I can point out a lot of providers who say "unlimited" bandwidth, but when push comes to shove, they will not allow you to push that much. Residential broadband providers and hosted solutions may say "unlimited" but when you start pushing a lot through the provider, you will find your account suspended or canceled. True unlimited bandwidth costs are astronomical. If you knew the industry and how shared hosting works, you would understand that.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I know how the industry works and know companies that have lost hosting privileges because of excessive bandwidth when the provider false advertises, and you can find a lot of providers who say unlimited.


You are confusing shared servers to dedicated servers. But go ahead and keep on thinking that Hockeystreams.com is streaming these videos and spending their time and risking getting caught for $0-dollar profit. They are doing illegal activities to serve you, the viewer, for free. And go ahead and keep on thinking they are only charging you what it costs them in bandwidth. Lol @ how naive people truly are. Just mind-blowing.

And remind me to never do business where you "contract on the ISP side". /facepalm.

Edited by Heaten, 29 September 2010 - 11:44 PM.


#27 JoeBuddy

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 11:57 PM

So I have a question for the people on this forum as well...

I also want to purchase Center Ice from Comcast.. but after reading this forum, someone just said that they can purchase Game Center Live and stream through my PS3..? My PS3 is connected to the same TV as my cable box... so what would you recommend for me? Also, what are the pros and cons for Game Center Live vs. Center Ice?
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#28 Nightfall

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 12:30 AM

You are confusing shared servers to dedicated servers. But go ahead and keep on thinking that Hockeystreams.com is streaming these videos and spending their time and risking getting caught for $0-dollar profit. They are doing illegal activities to serve you, the viewer, for free. And go ahead and keep on thinking they are only charging you what it costs them in bandwidth. Lol @ how naive people truly are. Just mind-blowing.

And remind me to never do business where you "contract on the ISP side". /facepalm.

Dedicated servers and shared servers have nothing to do with the conversation. Its all about the ISP. Who says I am thinking that they are only charging for bandwidth or that he is only doing it for free? I don't think anyone is that dumb, and since I never said that, you can stop drawing conclusions to try to make yourself look righteous. As for you doing business where I work on the ISP side, you are probably safe there unless you do business in MI and stream a ton of video. From your knowledge and experience, you obviously don't do that. Otherwise, you would have been down that road as I have with many customers.

I would like to have a good natured conversation with you about this if you are interested. Lets take it to PM though. The conversation is way off topic.
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#29 Nightfall

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 12:43 AM

So I have a question for the people on this forum as well...

I also want to purchase Center Ice from Comcast.. but after reading this forum, someone just said that they can purchase Game Center Live and stream through my PS3..? My PS3 is connected to the same TV as my cable box... so what would you recommend for me? Also, what are the pros and cons for Game Center Live vs. Center Ice?

I would only recommend it if you live outside of MI. There are local blackouts on NHL Center Ice and Gamecenter. So if you want to watch the Wings, NHL Game Center may have it blacked out in MI.
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#30 McAwesome

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 01:09 AM

I would only recommend it if you live outside of MI. There are local blackouts on NHL Center Ice and Gamecenter. So if you want to watch the Wings, NHL Game Center may have it blacked out in MI.


The way I understand it, when you buy Center Ice you have to have a premium sports package already, so you would have all the RSNs that show NHL games (Fox Sports, Comcast Sportsnet, MSG, etc) plus the dedicated "Center Ice" channels for just the hockey games. You also get Versus and the NHL Network, which anytime those channels are showing a game there is no "Center Ice" channel for that game, you have to watch it on the regular network's channel.

With GameCenter, you are blacked out for your local team, markets are based on the network's distribution territory not whether you actually have the network, and any nationally televised game on NBC, Versus, or NHL Network is blacked out live.

One of the main reasons that people tell me they prefer GameCenter to Center Ice is the archives, if you miss a game on Center Ice you just miss out on that game (unless you set your DVR), but with GameCenter every game is archived 48 hours after the live broadcast, and for games that are not blacked out you can start them over for 24 hours, even while the game is in progress, with no additional hardware or software. Also, GameCenter includes access to the NHL Vault, which is archives for every game since 2007-08 and several classic games from the 60's-90's, and by the end of October there are supposed to be as many as 500 classic games.

Not trying to sound like a salesperson for Gamecenter, just giving you more information so you can make an informed decision.

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#31 OzWing19

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 05:23 AM

FYI, I work in tech support for Gamecenter Live, feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

Here is a link to the Gamecenter Live FAQs for those interested, new features for this season are home and away video, the ability to stream directly to your PS3, Roku, or Boxee. NHL Vault (archives and classic games, included with GCL subscription) will be available on Sony Bravia Blu-Ray players and the iPad.

Also, for those making mention of hockeystreams.net, don't be surprised if that site gets shut down if it hasn't already been, the NHL is severly cracking down on unauthorized streaming sites charging money for hockey, (don't worry, I haven't told them about Drumnj, he doesn't charge)


I've also being tossing up whether I should get Gamecenter for this season too and I think you may have just sold me with the PS3 feature. What software do you need to stream it to a PS3 though? Through the media server thing or?



#32 JoeBuddy

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 06:42 AM

I appreciate the response but now realize my question wasn't specific enough to express my needs for either service.

Well the reason for me wanting to buy Center Ice was because I just love the game and want to watch as many games as possible this season. I live in Michigan so I already have FSD, Versus, and FSN+.

My concern really is quality of the games. I have no interest in watching the games on my computer. If I purchased Game Center, I would most likely stream it to my TV 99% of the time. So also in that regard, how is Game Center better or perhaps not better at all than Center Ice.
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#33 jmad

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 10:57 AM

That's great news that it's available on PS3 this year. No more hooking the laptop up to the tv. The PS3 player worked great for the similar MLB package.

Another nice thing about gamecenter is that you can log in from any computer. So if you're traveling and at a hotel or something you can still watch the wings.

#34 Nightfall

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 10:58 AM

I appreciate the response but now realize my question wasn't specific enough to express my needs for either service.

Well the reason for me wanting to buy Center Ice was because I just love the game and want to watch as many games as possible this season. I live in Michigan so I already have FSD, Versus, and FSN+.

My concern really is quality of the games. I have no interest in watching the games on my computer. If I purchased Game Center, I would most likely stream it to my TV 99% of the time. So also in that regard, how is Game Center better or perhaps not better at all than Center Ice.

I have had Center Ice and Gamecenter live. Since they are almost priced the same here is my rundown of both services.

Since you already live in MI and have all channels they will show locally, then you are all set on that end and have your Wings covered. I am a hockey nut as well, and I love watching the game. I enjoyed NHL Center Ice because you get HD streams on Directv. If I had Comcast, Dish Network, or Uverse, I probably wouldn't get the NHL Center Ice package because all the games are in standard definition.

I feel the NHL Gamecenter Live is what you want if...

1. You travel and like watching the games on your computer while you are away.
2. You have a nice HDTV and don't have Directv. Almost all NHL Center Ice package games on Directv are in HD. One or two are in HD on Dish while none are available on Comcast or Uverse.

The service works well. Yes, there are hiccups every now and again, but I feel it is worth it.
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#35 Kamakazi010654

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 11:16 AM

FYI, I work in tech support for Gamecenter Live, feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

Here is a link to the Gamecenter Live FAQs for those interested, new features for this season are home and away video, the ability to stream directly to your PS3, Roku, or Boxee. NHL Vault (archives and classic games, included with GCL subscription) will be available on Sony Bravia Blu-Ray players and the iPad.

Also, for those making mention of hockeystreams.net, don't be surprised if that site gets shut down if it hasn't already been, the NHL is severly cracking down on unauthorized streaming sites charging money for hockey, (don't worry, I haven't told them about Drumnj, he doesn't charge)


Any more information about the PS3 streaming?

The only reason I haven't re-upped for this year is I want to take advantage of the massive TV I bought in the off season instead of watching it on my computer monitors.

#36 McAwesome

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 01:27 PM

Any more information about the PS3 streaming?

The only reason I haven't re-upped for this year is I want to take advantage of the massive TV I bought in the off season instead of watching it on my computer monitors.


We actually haven't had a chance to look at the PS3 app yet, so I can't give many specifics, but the way it is supposed to work is you will download the app from the PSN store (they will charge you $10 for it) and once you have downloaded the app you will have to register it, there will be a validation code that you enter through the app to link it to your Gamecenter account for the computer, then you will be able to stream live games through your console directly to your TV, and since the video hardware on the PS3 is far superior to any media center PC, you should have a much better picture through the PS3 than you will by hooking your computer up to your big screen.

We should be getting a production app and a console to test it on early next week, so I will post more details in this thread then. Also, for those of you that have the Roku box for Netflix, there will be an app for your box that will do the same thing.

I've also being tossing up whether I should get Gamecenter for this season too and I think you may have just sold me with the PS3 feature. What software do you need to stream it to a PS3 though? Through the media server thing or?


The only software you will need is the app itself, and of course a Gamecenter account for the computer. Another bonus of the PS3 app is that you can actually be signed in on a computer and also be streaming through the PS3 at the same time, whereas if you try to sign on to more than one computer at a time it will boot one computer off.

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#37 best poster in LGW history

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 04:59 PM

center ice is so much better on satellite vs cable. tons of HD games every night on dish network.

#38 Shoreline

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 11:36 AM

Hog wash. They are charging to profit on illegal pirated content. I run 11 successful (legal) websites and know how much dedicated servers cost. Two yearly subscriptions pay for the bandwidth... any other subscriptions they get is 100% profit; these guys are making a business stealing content. Not sure how anyone can defend them.

So how much active bandwidth does each consumer streaming their video use, per second? Hockey streams on their main page claims 1.8mb/s feeds. Your dedicated server link claims up to 10mb/s. If my math isn't wrong (if it is, show how), that means the 6th person who tries to stream a hockey game on that dedicated server's data pipe gets screwed. The "unmetered" part is how much bandwidth is consumed over the span of a billing cycle (1 month), and nothing to do with real time bandwidth usage. $16/mo for Hockeystreams @ 1.8mb/s for live feeds, $165/mo for 5.5 1.8 mb/s connections. $165/mo / $16/mo = 10.3 customers. 10.3 (round to 10) customers paying versus 5.5 (round to 5) customers being served. I don't see the profit generated on 2 customers. In fact, all this shows is they need something along the lines of a 1GB/s or more dedicated server and, if the math is similar to this website in terms of hosting, can only feasibly allow for streams at half the actual data rate before they even start to make a profit. Because I'm more willing to believe that the higher the bandwidth plan the dedicated server has (the layman's "buy in bulk" price saving theory), the more they will save on per/second bandwidth, it would be slightly over half the actual data rate, or less, shifting up and down on a supply curve entirely depending upon how much data consumers actually use per second versus what is advertised.

I'm more than willing to believe you run 11 websites, but I'm skeptical you actually know much about bandwidth and the economics of bandwidth/cost just because you run websites.

#39 Heaten

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 12:33 PM

So how much active bandwidth does each consumer streaming their video use, per second? Hockey streams on their main page claims 1.8mb/s feeds. Your dedicated server link claims up to 10mb/s. If my math isn't wrong (if it is, show how), that means the 6th person who tries to stream a hockey game on that dedicated server's data pipe gets screwed. The "unmetered" part is how much bandwidth is consumed over the span of a billing cycle (1 month), and nothing to do with real time bandwidth usage. $16/mo for Hockeystreams @ 1.8mb/s for live feeds, $165/mo for 5.5 1.8 mb/s connections. $165/mo / $16/mo = 10.3 customers. 10.3 (round to 10) customers paying versus 5.5 (round to 5) customers being served. I don't see the profit generated on 2 customers. In fact, all this shows is they need something along the lines of a 1GB/s or more dedicated server and, if the math is similar to this website in terms of hosting, can only feasibly allow for streams at half the actual data rate before they even start to make a profit. Because I'm more willing to believe that the higher the bandwidth plan the dedicated server has (the layman's "buy in bulk" price saving theory), the more they will save on per/second bandwidth, it would be slightly over half the actual data rate, or less, shifting up and down on a supply curve entirely depending upon how much data consumers actually use per second versus what is advertised.

I'm more than willing to believe you run 11 websites, but I'm skeptical you actually know much about bandwidth and the economics of bandwidth/cost just because you run websites.


I don't have the time to explain all the nuts and bolts aspects about servers unless you would like to pay me for my time (if so, shoot me a PM and we'll get started with training over SKYPE).

In laymen's terms:
Because something is posted on the front page of Hockeystreams.com doesn't means it's true. Use common sense... they are not streaming hockey games for virtually free. They are profiting from illegal pirated content. Robbers don't heist a bank only to steal enough money to pay for the gas in the get-away car. C'mon man, use common sense.

#40 dobbles

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 01:23 PM

heaten, as someone who also works in the web industry, you really are missing the point here. you seem to have your niche of knowledge and are not understanding at all what others are saying. its great you have 11 sites, i am sure your mom is proud, but thats not exactly something that is hard to do. sorry for the condescending attitude, its just getting really frustrating seeing you argue your point which makes no sense at all.

also, we get it; they are still streaming illegal content. no one is disputing that. people are just disputing your understanding of how much bandwidth costs.

Edited by dobbles, 01 October 2010 - 01:24 PM.

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