Wings release Aaron Downey

[Carman 387]

Fighting falls under the intangible category. Some people value it more then others. I just fail to see the benefits of having one of your players in the box for 5 minutes.

[Dominator2005 558]

Interesting. Last year, Eaves, Helm, Abdelkader and Miller replaced 2008-2009's Samuelsson, Hossa and Hudler. How, pray tell, was that a decrease in toughness?

Look, dude---just give up. Your attack on Carman's credibility was a clear sign of your knowledge that your argument was weak. Now you've resorted to making silly, hyperbolic claims.

You had McCarty, Downey, Lilja (healthy) - replaced by May... in my mind that's pretty obvious

Fighting falls under the intangible category. Some people value it more then others. I just fail to see the benefits of having one of your players in the box for 5 minutes.

Well I would rather have "enforcer" in penalty box for 5 minutes than risking of losing (exemple) Ericsson or Abdelkader to injury (à la Lilja) or having one of them in PK box. That'S my point and I might be wrong. Then again, there are 27-28 teams in NHL with at least ONE enforcer.

[Guest Crymson]

You had McCarty, Downey, Lilja (healthy) - replaced by May... in my mind that's pretty obvious

McCarty was not a consistent fixture in the lineup in that season; he played in only 13 games. Downey played in all of four games, and he had a whopping one fight. Lilja had three fights before getting his face pounded in.

And yes, thank you for reminding me that May---who played 40 games and had more fights than Downey, Lilja and McCarty had combined for in the previous season---also joined the team last season. That really does support my point, as it, too, was an increase in toughness from the previous season.

Seriously... give up.

Edited September 30, 2010 by Crymson

[Dominator2005 558]

McCarty was not a consistent fixture in the lineup in that season; he only played 13 games. Downey played all of four games, and he had a whopping one fight. Lilja had three fights before getting his face pounded in.

And yes, thank you for reminding me that May---who played 40 games last season and had one more fight than Downey, Lilja and McCarty had combined for in the previous season---also joined the team last season. That really does support my point.

Seriously... give up.

Crymson theory: In NHL, let's use words instead of violence. You are right, There are 28 GM's which are stupid and everyone else...

McCarty was not a consistent fixture in the lineup in that season; he only played 13 games. Downey played all of four games, and he had a whopping one fight. Lilja had three fights before getting his face pounded in.

And yes, thank you for reminding me that May---who played 40 games and had more fights than Downey, Lilja and McCarty had combined for in the previous season---also joined the team last season. That really does support my point, as it, too, was an increase in toughness from the previous season.

Seriously... give up.

McCarty played only 13 games - because he was signed at the end of the season...

[Guest Crymson]

Crymson theory: In NHL, let's use words instead of violence. You are right, There are 28 GM's which are stupid and everyone else...

And there, again, you ignore responses to your arguments and instead resort to attempts to undermine credibility.

Thank you for your de facto concession of defeat.

Edited September 30, 2010 by Crymson

[Dominator2005 558]

And there, again, you ignore responses to your arguments and instead resort to attempts to undermine credibility.

Thank you for your de-facto concession of defeat.

Which defeat are you talking about???

Who said that many players (which are not tough) are acting TOUGH against Detroit???

[Guest Crymson]

Which defeat are you talking about???

Who said that many players (which are not tough) are acting TOUGH against Detroit???

Your behavior constitutes a tacit admission that your argument is full of holes.

Edited September 30, 2010 by Crymson

[Dominator2005 558]

Your behavior constitutes a tacit admission that your argument is full of holes.

What arguments are you talking about?! Your own perceptions? I'm gonna ask you again, why 28 GM have at least 1 enforcer?!?! There are 30 teams in NHL, 28 of them have at least 1 enforcer. After that, we are going to talk about grit.

[Guest Crymson]

What arguments are you talking about?! Your own perceptions? I'm gonna ask you again, why 28 GM have at least 1 enforcer?!?! There are 30 teams in NHL, 28 of them have at least 1 enforcer. After that, we are going to talk about grit.

I made a reference to last year's Capitals roster and their level of success. You responded with holed arguments, then changed the subject when I refuted those arguments.

I made a counter-argument to your implication that this year's Red Wings team will be the "weakest ever." After I refuted yet another round of flawed arguments, you resorted to attempts to undermine my credibility.

I'm not going to respond to your argument in this particular post, as you'll just use that to change the subject or to say "OMFG YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, SO WHAT YOU SAID EARLIER IS SO DUMB OMG."

Edited September 30, 2010 by Crymson

[Dominator2005 558]

I made a reference to last year's Capitals roster and their level of success. You responded with holed arguments, then changed the subject when I refuted those arguments.

I made a counter-argument to your implication that this year's Red Wings team will be the "weakest ever." After I refuted yet another round of flawed arguments, you resorted to attempts to undermine my credibility.

I'm not going to respond to your argument in this particular post, as you'll just use that to change the subject or to say "OMFG YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, SO WHAT YOU SAID EARLIER IS SO DUMB OMG."

Still no answer to my question...

Capitals are pretty much tougher than Red Wings. They have Erskine, Bradley, Steckell, Chimera, KING...

Their level of succes - lost in 1st round... what's your point?!

I'm going to ask you again for 10th times - WHY 28 GM'S HAVE AT LEAST ONE ENFORCER?! Those are facts and not OWN PERCEPTION.

"Holed arguments" (I really see no holes) are better than using my own perception as arguments...

Edited September 30, 2010 by Dominator2005

[dobbles 252]

dominator, you are making yourself look really stupid. you should walk away man. you may think you are fighting the good fight (pun intended) but its just not happening for you today.

[Dominator2005 558]

dominator, you are making yourself look really stupid. you should walk away man. you may think you are fighting the good fight (pun intended) but its just not happening for you today.

I thought that saying that Franzen is ENFORCER was stupid.

I thought that saying that Salei and Stuart are fighters was stupid.

If it's stupid to say that Detroit 2010/2011 edition is the softest ever (so far) well yes, I must be stupid. But go to all other forums and read comments about this edition of Detroit - and you will see that there are more "stupid" people out there than you think.

Edited September 30, 2010 by Dominator2005

[Guest Crymson]

I'll just step away now. I've done what I came here to do.

[Dominator2005 558]

I'll just step away now. I've done what I came here to do.

Still no answer... good night Crymson!!!

[Broken 16 381]

Having players on your team that other players are afraid of is ALWAYS a plus and will contribute towards wins. Saying that fighting is good for "entertainment value" understates it's importance quite a bit. Yes, a powerplay can be an enforcer on some level, but a human being will always be more afraid of a fist to the face.

Having said that, Holland has proven that he will always pick skill over fighting and unless a player possesses both, he won't see much ice time. Not enough for him to have a real impact.

Edited September 30, 2010 by Broken 16

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Welcome to another year of cheapshots on Franzen, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg. The Brooks Orpik hit is only the beginning of what we're gonna see.

Glad Downey was there to prevent that.

[dragonballgtz 273]

Having said that, Holland has proven that he will always pick skill over fighting and unless a player possesses both, he won't see much ice time. Not enough for him to have a real impact.

Having just a pure enforcer for the sake of just having one is no bueno. If our "enforcer" was a McCarty or Lucic type then I would be all for that person, like everyone else would be.

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

How come when we had enforcers on our team, no one was starting threads like "OMG, we need to get rid of Downey and May because they can't score"?

Now that we don't have any tough guys, everyone raves about how insignificant those players are to the team. At least be consistent people, instead of resorting to hypocrisy.

[esteef 2,679]

I love the "entertainment value" argument. Talk about f***in' hilarious! The Wings are super deep every year to the point that they have to let good players leave yet we reserve spots on the team for Downey and May type players just for "entertainment".

This bulls*** gets funnier every time it's argued about!

esteef

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

That's a shame. An absolute class act, good luck with everything Downs.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Woooooo enforcers!

We've never talked about those kinda people in here before!!!!

[thedisappearer 291]

Capitals are pretty much tougher than Red Wings. They have Erskine, Bradley, Steckell, Chimera, KING...

Their level of succes - lost in 1st round... what's your point?!

That we got farther with a "weaker" team"?

How come when we had enforcers on our team, no one was starting threads like "OMG, we need to get rid of Downey and May because they can't score"?

Now that we don't have any tough guys, everyone raves about how insignificant those players are to the team. At least be consistent people, instead of resorting to hypocrisy.

Or, the people who don't care about the enforcer issue don't whine like a 7 year old girl with a skinned knee about it? personally, i don't get worked up over 4th liners, especially when we're not talking about developing young talent.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

If I remember correctly, Bertuzzi proceeded to pound Orpik after the hit. That's what we need more of. If Bertuzzi could deter some of the cheap s*** other teams are gonna do, that would be great. Someone's gotta do it. Its gonna have to take Zetterberg's head getting knocked off by Matt Cooke to make Detroit realize "hey, maybe some beef would prevent that". Seriously. I'm not saying we need a team stacked with Belaks and Boogaards, but we need the balance of skill and grit. We don't have that right now, in my opinion. The way its looking, our enforcer is gonna be Jimmy Howard. Nobody ever clears the crease(cough, Ericsson and Rafalski), so he'll have to do it.

Your team isn't going deep into the playoffs unless you have a balanced combination of skill, grit, and veteran experience. Bottom line.

[Guest Crymson]

Your team isn't going deep into the playoffs unless you have a balanced combination of skill, grit, and veteran experience. Bottom line.

2008-2009. Bottom line incorrect.

[Dominator2005 558]

That we got farther with a "weaker" team"?

Or, the people who don't care about the enforcer issue don't whine like a 7 year old girl with a skinned knee about it? personally, i don't get worked up over 4th liners, especially when we're not talking about developing young talent.

Funny part is that the Flyers went to the finals, farther then Detroit...