Wings release Aaron Downey

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Just ask Mike Grier!

esteef

That clip never gets old.

[dobbles 252]

IMO, there is a flaw in the justification that enforcers are needed to prevent opposing players from taking runs at star players. the flaw is that if a player is dirty enough to purposely try to run other teams stars, having to fight someone isn't going to deter him. additionally, most of the time, if a player makes a dirty hit on someone, he doesn't even have to fight an enforcer. why? because if he just took a run at a star player it basically means that the enforcer is currently on the bench. with the instigator penalty and the fact that line matchups are hyper specific, there is just little chance that a player has to even be on the ice against the enforcer.

i think it would be interesting for someone to do an analysis of fights. i think you would find most legitimate enforcers only fight each other. and while that does provide some entertainment for fans, it has little to do with the outcome of the games. however, because teams carry these heavyweights, other teams feel they need to have one of their own to counter them.

[Broken 16 381]

Grossly overstated by every team in the league.

esteef

I'm not anti-fighting, but this comment cracks me up almost as much as the entertainment value comment. If Holland wanted to put together a team like every other team... that's just what they would be, like every other team. Not many teams out there like the Wings and it suits me just fine. Wings don't copy the blueprint, they design it.

Edited September 30, 2010 by Broken 16

[cjm502 165]

Wow, this debate is new.

[Broken 16 381]

Wow, this debate is new.

It's pretty much common knowledge that any thread about a player who has ever been labeled an enforcer will always morph into a mindless enforcer debate. It's good clean fun.

Edited September 30, 2010 by Broken 16

[Konnan511 1,736]

Cups which Detroit won in the past: Rosters from 96-97 and/or 97-98, Shanahan, Lapointe, McCarty, Kocur, Rouse, Jamie Macouin, Bob Rouse, Ward, Konstantinov... That's toughnes and skills my friend...

2002 - We had McCarty, Shanahan...

2008 - Shadow of Mcarty

Holland, GM who is promising every summer that he'l go after enforcer.

Holland, GM who wanted to trade Datsyuk for Luongo (Florida went after Canucks deal).

Holland, GM who offered $6M per season (for 4 or 5 seasons) to Elias.

Sorry but your point is not valid

Holland, three cups. Should have been four. Soon to be four this year.

[Buppy 1,720]

It boggles my mind to see Red Wings fans who still think enforcers are needed. For pretty much the past 20 years, the Wings have been at or near the bottom of the league in fighting majors (dead last every year since the lockout) and still been the most successful team in the league.

Even allowing that fighting is a valuable ability for a team to have, it is painfully obvious that the lack of it can be compensated for in other areas. Instead, the pro-enforcer crowd just overstates the value of whatever 'enforcer' we've had in the past, even though they probably spent the whole year complaining about how soft we were.

People talk about the 96-98 teams like they were some great monument to team toughness, but the reality is they still rarely fought and were considered 'soft' compared to most of the league. McCarty was never so tough that he scared anyone. People who spent all of 08 whining about how soft we were now talk about Drake like he was one of the great all-time fighters.

This year will likely be no different than any other. We'll have a handful of fights. People will cry about how soft we are, blame every minor injury on our lack of fighters. If we aren't successful it will be because we weren't tough enough. But if we happen to win a Cup, it will be because of great enforcing from Bert and Abby or whoever happens to have a couple fights during the year.

The simple fact is that any deficiency can be overcome by enough strength in other areas. A strong defense can make up for a weaker offense or sub-par goaltending. A strong offense can offset a less than stellar defense. Great depth can overcome injuries or below average play from your stars. Dominant stars can compensate for a lack of depth. There isn't any one thing that is an absolute must have.

It's the general level of team talent, coaching and system, great effort, and a bit of luck that wins Cups. We have the talent, coaching, and system, despite any specific weaknesses we might have. All we really need now is the effort and luck.

[WorkingOvertime 536]

It boggles my mind to see Red Wings fans who still think enforcers are needed. For pretty much the past 20 years, the Wings have been at or near the bottom of the league in fighting majors (dead last every year since the lockout) and still been the most successful team in the league.

Even allowing that fighting is a valuable ability for a team to have, it is painfully obvious that the lack of it can be compensated for in other areas. Instead, the pro-enforcer crowd just overstates the value of whatever 'enforcer' we've had in the past, even though they probably spent the whole year complaining about how soft we were.

People talk about the 96-98 teams like they were some great monument to team toughness, but the reality is they still rarely fought and were considered 'soft' compared to most of the league. McCarty was never so tough that he scared anyone. People who spent all of 08 whining about how soft we were now talk about Drake like he was one of the great all-time fighters.

This year will likely be no different than any other. We'll have a handful of fights. People will cry about how soft we are, blame every minor injury on our lack of fighters. If we aren't successful it will be because we weren't tough enough. But if we happen to win a Cup, it will be because of great enforcing from Bert and Abby or whoever happens to have a couple fights during the year.

The simple fact is that any deficiency can be overcome by enough strength in other areas. A strong defense can make up for a weaker offense or sub-par goaltending. A strong offense can offset a less than stellar defense. Great depth can overcome injuries or below average play from your stars. Dominant stars can compensate for a lack of depth. There isn't any one thing that is an absolute must have.

It's the general level of team talent, coaching and system, great effort, and a bit of luck that wins Cups. We have the talent, coaching, and system, despite any specific weaknesses we might have. All we really need now is the effort and luck.

I can agree with most of this- an enforcer isn't needed to win. However, this doesn't address the real issue. If the Wings had always carried an enforcer as the 13th forward- playing ~50 games a season- would the Wings have been any less successful?

[thedisappearer 291]

So you only complain when the status quo agrees with you? Kind of pointless to post on a message board if you're afraid to share your opinion, even if it conflicts with popular opinion.

I just don't remember any of you guys talking about how useless enforcers are when they were in our lineup. You only do it after the fact, and when others agree with you.

Where did I complain?

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Aaron Downey would kick our asses in a Boggle tournament.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

Hopefully someone gives him a chance. Carolina doesn't really have an "enforcer". The closest they have is Tom Kostopoulos

[The Secret 304]

8 pages on the release of Downey? He was a crappy hockey player and a mediocre enforcer on a puck possession team... We have no need for a player like him. I'm glad he is not wasting valuable ice time that a younger player could use.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

Who needs enforcers? Franzen, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg are completely invincible to cheapshots.

[The Secret 304]

Who needs enforcers? Franzen, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg are completely invincible to cheapshots.

Downey would NEVER be on the ice with either of the above players. Hard to enforce anything for them from the bench! I'm all for a player who can drop the gloves and defend himself and his teammates but has to be able to play some hockey as well.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

When you've got guys like Downey on your team, opposing players think twice about throwing cheapshots. I agree with you in the sense that a guy that can do a little bit of everything would be ideal.

[The Secret 304]

When you've got guys like Downey on your team, opposing players think twice about throwing cheapshots. I agree with you in the sense that a guy that can do a little bit of everything would be ideal.

Giving that ice time to Abbie will be much more effective and beneficial to Abbie and the team... he can skate, likes to hit, will drop the gloves and can add some scoring now and then.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

In my opinion, Abdelkader needs to focus on developing his offensive game. I wouldn't mind seeing him fight here and there, but he's got too much potential to be a career 4th line player. Leave the enforcing to someone else, you know?

[GoWings1905 2,694]

When you've got guys like Downey on your team, opposing players think twice about throwing cheapshots. I agree with you in the sense that a guy that can do a little bit of everything would be ideal.

I'm not arguing that what you are stating is always false, but Brooks Orpik threw a cheapshot at Franzen a week ago and Downey was dressed that night. Sure, Bertuzzi defended Franzen after but having Downey around didn't cause Orpik to think twice. It's like the Laraque on Kronwall argument from last season - Laraque was going to stick his knee out regardless of the consequences to follow. Cheapshots are going to happen in the game.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

I'm not saying Abby's got all star potential, I'm just saying I think he could be a solid 2 way 3rd line center.

[The Secret 304]

In my opinion, Abdelkader needs to focus on developing his offensive game. I wouldn't mind seeing him fight here and there, but he's got too much potential to be a career 4th line player. Leave the enforcing to someone else, you know?

Agree'd Abbie does need some work on his offensive game but his physical game could use some strengthening also... He likes to hit and will fight at times but both of those area's for him could use improvement as well. No better way for that then playing. If Downey is in someone has to be out.... who would you see out over Downey honestly?

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

8 pages on the release of Downey? He was a crappy hockey player and a mediocre enforcer on a puck possession team... We have no need for a player like him. I'm glad he is not wasting valuable ice time that a younger player could use.

Anti-enforcer post alert.

BTW, to add to your list, Downey was a horrible person who punched babies and strangled elderly women.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

I think an "enforcer" (at least for this year) could be sparingly used in games against more physical teams: Anaheim, Vancouver, Calgary, St.Louis, etc. Hopefully in the near future we will have at least one guy that can play some hockey and take on the role of "enforcer", like Mitchell Callahan.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Downey would NEVER be on the ice with either of the above players. Hard to enforce anything for them from the bench! I'm all for a player who can drop the gloves and defend himself and his teammates but has to be able to play some hockey as well.

This is exactly what I mean.

Where were these posts when Downey was in the lineup? Did the cat get your tongue then?

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Part of the issue may lie in the fact that our beloved Red Wings are 1 of the least penalised teams which may boost the bravado in some of our opponents.

Dunno if Oprik would feel as confident running a guy on the Flyers, or Maple Leafs.

Let's not get into silly speculation, now.

[Guest Crymson]

I'm not saying Abby's got all star potential, I'm just saying I think he could be a solid 2 way 3rd line center.

So you're saying that it'd best if he wasn't a solid two-way center who would also fight? Wouldn't you rather have it all in one package, just like we had with McCarty, or would it be better to waste a roster spot on an enforcer who can fight but is unable to contribute anything else? Do you think at all before you post?

Edited October 1, 2010 by Crymson