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Ritola will be traded or waived


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#181 GoWings1905

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 08:50 PM

Who says Ritola has a higher ceiling then Miller actually?


The 34 points in 133 career games for starters from Miller. That ceiling isn't very high. Is losing Ritola worth it for a career high goal scorer of ten that kills penalties?

Z & D hit it right on. The risk here isn't worth it for a player like Miller, who probably will be closer to the ceiling of the Joe on most nights.
 
 
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#182 Carman

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 09:01 PM

The 34 points in 133 career games for starters from Miller. That ceiling isn't very high. Is losing Ritola worth it for a career high goal scorer of ten that kills penalties?

Z & D hit it right on. The risk here isn't worth it for a player like Miller, who probably will be closer to the ceiling of the Joe on most nights.


Miller put up similar if not better numbers while in the AHL...

#183 esteef

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 09:14 PM

We're keeping Miller to eventually lure his brother here. Think people!

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#184 barabbas16

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 09:22 PM

While I think that the 'Wings are too old' story has been proven to be... old, and not a valid point (since it has been said for... I don't know, at least 10 years now it seems like). ... The Wings aren't young. The time is now. They want to win. It comes down to two guys. They kept the guy who is most likely to help them win. Now. That guy is Drew Miller. Not saying Ritola is awful or anything like that. Maybe he'll turn out great. I'm just saying, tough decisions come up. Sometimes you're the odd man out, not necessarily because you're definitely the poorer option, but because you're definitely the poorer option for a certain situation (this season). Drew Miller was the right call.

#185 newfy

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 09:23 PM

The 34 points in 133 career games for starters from Miller. That ceiling isn't very high. Is losing Ritola worth it for a career high goal scorer of ten that kills penalties?

Z & D hit it right on. The risk here isn't worth it for a player like Miller, who probably will be closer to the ceiling of the Joe on most nights.

Yeah those 42 points in the AHL scream offensive dynamo from Ritola. Miller was over a PPG, 36 points in 31 games his last year in the AHL while splitting time between the Ducks and Portland. Ritola hardly had more then that in 70 something. Ritola has not shown anything to say he'll be a top 6 player and in the bottom 6 I would rather have the guy who is a fairly capable PKer and will play gritty sometimes (even though I wish we had someone else for Miller doing this), then a little skilled Swedish player who can't finish but is a skilled guy who doesn't put up points. Skilled players who don't score or set up goals are useless in a bottom 6 and in a 4th line role

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#186 RedWingsFan13

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 09:42 PM

Uhhh I understood you. But you're making it sound as though because Miller can PK in the NHL right now, Ritola should've been moved. Who says Ritola can't? Who says Ritola doesn't have much higher upside than Miller?

Proof will be in the pudding, and we'll come away looking pretty foolish IMO.


Ritola's potential is trash compared to some of our other prospects. We don't need a "Who's to say" player at this point, we need guys who can get it done for a year or two while we bring up the real deal prospects. I just dont see the big deal. If he scores 149 goals and 633 assists next year for TB, guess what... I dont care. its a different system and style... Ritola has had his chance to prove himself with OUR style and he couldn't, so he got waived. The moral of the story is, "I could make a billion dollars this year but will I".. Get it?

#187 VM1138

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 09:45 PM

Yeah man, with Helm, Abdelkader, Eaves, Filppula, Cleary, Draper, we're so short on PK options!!


You can never have too many PKers. Simply put, Ritola was replaceable. The praise he gets is that basically he doesn't suck. But he'll never be great, and probably will never be good. It was a depth move on the part of Yzerman and it wasn't a great loss for us. As for keeping Miller for one year instead of Ritola for many, why would we want Ritola for many? Our forward spots are locked up for a few years and we have tons of great prospects that easily top out anything Ritola could do about to come up in a year or two.
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#188 Crymson

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 09:51 PM

Agreed. It sounds like Ritola has failed to impress time and time again. But you made the mistake of bringing up Quincey which will lead to what you see below, because Holland couldn't possibly be anything but perfect.


What a dumb comment. I never even mentioned Holland in my post.

Nice revisionist history of your own. Coddled? how exactly do you coddle an NHL defenseman? The Wings tried to keep their bottom pairing and rookie defenseman away from Anaheim's and San Jose's top lines?! Shocking! Unprecedented!


Quincey was limited to ~six minutes per night, he never had to face any challenging situations, and he never did anything significant.

Maybe because for some crazy reason they wanted to have the league's best defenseman on the ice against the other team's top lines.


Quincey was limited to ~six minutes per night, he never had to face any challenging situations, and he never did anything significant.

How exactly did Meech outshine Quincey in every way? This is your biggest revisionist history. Unless you attended every single training camp and practice. Because in the games it wasn't that clear, at least not the ones where Meech was on D. But Meech had the benefit of versatility. If you're going to be a plug, it doesn't hurt to be one who can play wing too.


Well, let's see. He played much better during the defensive injury spell of '08, when both of them had the chance to really show what they had. In fact, he played so well and was so involved that the Wings petitioned (successfully) to have his name added to the Cup that year. Quincey, meanwhile, was nearly invisible. He was badly outplayed by both Ericsson and Meech. By all accounts, Meech also had a far better training camp the next summer than Quincey did.

I fail to see

But no, I know, Holland can't make mistakes. It was all Quincey's fault.


What a dumb comment. I never even mentioned Holland in my post.

And yes, the fact that Quincey did not make the team was indeed his own fault. That's pretty much exactly what I said.

You whine about us fixating on Quincey, but jeez. Holland thought Quincey would never make a quality NHL defenseman. Turns out he was wrong. Get over it.


Yeah, and you use hindsight to whine about Holland releasing him. That very senseless. I imagine that your very weak arguments about Quincey's supposed quality play back then are only intended to give you some base on which to whine.

Edited by Crymson, 05 October 2010 - 09:52 PM.


#189 eva unit zero

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 09:52 PM

I do. I don't see Miller getting much better than he already is, while Ritola hasn't had a full year in the NHL and was a highly touted prospect. I'm not saying Ritola will be better than Miller, but he is worth the risk over losing Miller, the type of player we already have tons of, IMO.


Miller is 26. Ritola is 23. Miller is a better offensive player than Ritola, and was at age 23 as well. Miller is light years ahead of Ritola on defense. Ritola does have skill, but he has spent five years in the Wings' organization and has been repeatedly passed up on the depth chart by new prospects. Choosing Miller over Ritola is the correct decision.
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#190 GoWings1905

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 09:54 PM

While I think that the 'Wings are too old' story has been proven to be... old, and not a valid point (since it has been said for... I don't know, at least 10 years now it seems like). ... The Wings aren't young. The time is now. They want to win. It comes down to two guys. They kept the guy who is most likely to help them win. Now. That guy is Drew Miller. Not saying Ritola is awful or anything like that. Maybe he'll turn out great. I'm just saying, tough decisions come up. Sometimes you're the odd man out, not necessarily because you're definitely the poorer option, but because you're definitely the poorer option for a certain situation (this season). Drew Miller was the right call.


Fair points, but having Drew Miller here or not isn't going to affect the Red Wings chances of winning right now whatsoever. He'll have very little impact this season. Sacrificing a potential piece of the future for years to come for a guy that may not even be on the ice most nights isn't very sensible in my opinion.
 
 
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#191 Crymson

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 09:56 PM

While being overly sarcastic, you are actually proving the point of all of us that wanted to keep Ritola over Miller. Just because Meech outplayed Quincey doesn't mean it was the right decision. It clearly wasn't.


I really don't get the point of your argument. Are you claiming that Quincey's rise to success after leaving this team somehow provides a 100% chance that Ritola will do the same? That doesn't make any sense.

This is even more frustrating because we kept a player that probably won't dress most nights when everyone is healthy and has likely already reached his ceiling as a solid, 4th line defensive forward. Ritola may never even turn into more than that, but the potential for him to be greater is still there. I appreciate Drew Miller, but it seems truly silly to keep him on this team with what the Red Wings have in place over a 23-year-old that could be a productive forward for years to come.


There's no guarantee that Ritola will be good. He would have been sitting most of the season, in any event. Holland took the chance that nobody would pick him up. Had he cleared, he could have spent the year playing in GR rather than riding the pine in Detroit. This wasn't a case of Holland knowing Ritola would be lost.

I do. I don't see Miller getting much better than he already is, while Ritola hasn't had a full year in the NHL and was a highly touted prospect. I'm not saying Ritola will be better than Miller, but he is worth the risk over losing Miller, the type of player we already have tons of, IMO.


Ritola was never, EVER a highly-touted prospect.

#192 RedWingsFan13

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 09:58 PM

Fair points, but having Drew Miller here or not isn't going to affect the Red Wings chances of winning right now whatsoever. He'll have very little impact this season. Sacrificing a potential piece of the future for years to come for a guy that may not even be on the ice most nights isn't very sensible in my opinion.


Man, Ritola is not a franchise player. If he was we would have been watching him play between mule and fil instead of bert.

People, face it... Ritola is not Crosby 2.0, but reading some of this thread you'd think he was.

#193 Aussie_Wing

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 10:01 PM

Ritola's potential is trash compared to some of our other prospects. We don't need a "Who's to say" player at this point, we need guys who can get it done for a year or two while we bring up the real deal prospects. I just dont see the big deal. If he scores 149 goals and 633 assists next year for TB, guess what... I dont care. its a different system and style... Ritola has had his chance to prove himself with OUR style and he couldn't, so he got waived. The moral of the story is, "I could make a billion dollars this year but will I".. Get it?

See, showing you're true colours there. I mean seriously. :rolleyes:

He puts up those kinds of numbers and you'd still be saying we made no mistake. :lol: I love it how in the eyes of some NOTHIING Holland and co. will ever be a mistake.

Edited by Aussie_Wing, 05 October 2010 - 10:02 PM.

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#194 GoWings1905

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 10:03 PM

Man, Ritola is not a franchise player. If he was we would have been watching him play between mule and fil instead of bert.

People, face it... Ritola is not Crosby 2.0, but reading some of this thread you'd think he was.


Wow, accusing people of exaggeration and then you make a complete leap like that. Show me where anyone said Ritola was a franchise player. We're comparing him to Drew Miller not Sidney Crosby.

I clearly said potential in the post you quoted in reference to Ritola's prospects. I and many others feel Ritola's potential is higher than Drew Miller's. I have no idea where you got franchise player or Sidney Crosby from.
 
 
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#195 10 Minute Misconduct

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 10:07 PM

People love their own prospects and definatly over-value them.

Ritola isnt anything special, and never will be.

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#196 eva unit zero

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 10:07 PM

Holland thought Quincey would never make a quality NHL defenseman.


If I have 10 good defensemen, but I only get to keep 8, does that mean I only think those 8 are good?
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#197 Z and D for the C

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 10:08 PM

People, face it... Ritola is not Crosby 2.0, but reading some of this thread you'd think he was.


Right, because if you would choose Ritola over Miller that means you MUST think he is the next Crosby. There is no way around it. You have revealed us all for what we are.

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#198 RedWingsFan13

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 10:10 PM

See, showing you're true colours there. I mean seriously. :rolleyes:


I fail to grasp your attempt at an explanation. What am I showing by stating my opinion?
Perhaps you could be more detailed as apposed to highlighting my statement and trying to pass it off as a rebuttal.
If by showing my true colors you mean >> I think different systems produce different results. you are correct and I NEVER ONCE stated any differently.

You're using deflection to advert the conversation away from a valid point I have made, most likely due to an inability to counter it with any logical reprimand.


Nice edit by the way... ever hear of EXAGGERATION... you fail my friend... you fail.

Edited by RedWingsFan13, 05 October 2010 - 10:17 PM.


#199 10 Minute Misconduct

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 10:10 PM

I do. I don't see Miller getting much better than he already is, while Ritola hasn't had a full year in the NHL and was a highly touted prospect. I'm not saying Ritola will be better than Miller, but he is worth the risk over losing Miller, the type of player we already have tons of, IMO.


Wait, huh. Ritola was a highly touted prospect? @_@

What planet are u living on bro. Will he better then Miller? Who knows. But it was the right decision going forward for a team trying to win now not 5 years from now.

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#200 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 10:16 PM

What a dumb comment. I never even mentioned Holland in my post.

Even though you behave as if someone has, you actually haven't been given the position of judging all posts here at LGW.

Quincey was limited to ~six minutes per night, he never had to face any challenging situations, and he never did anything significant.

Nice delusional post. He never faced any challenging situations? do you realize how ridiculous of a statement that is? how could a defenseman in a playoff game never face a challenging situation. It just demonstrates how far gone you are when it comes to this subject. Inventing some version of the games where Quincey apparently just got to skate around there with no worries because he was coddled.

And he played 8 minutes a game in the postseason we're talking about. If you're going to be a condescending ass, at least get your facts right.

Quincey was limited to ~six minutes per night, he never had to face any challenging situations, and he never did anything significant.

Again, he played more than six minutes per night. But don't let the facts get in the way of your condescension and revisionist history.

Well, let's see. He played much better during the defensive injury spell of '08, when both of them had the chance to really show what they had. In fact, he played so well and was so involved that the Wings petitioned (successfully) to have his name added to the Cup that year. Quincey, meanwhile, was nearly invisible. He was badly outplayed by both Ericsson and Meech. By all accounts, Meech also had a far better training camp the next summer than Quincey did.

By the accounts that he didn't make the team. That's kind of circular reasoning.

Meech is waived, Quincey is an NHL defenseman. It's hilarious you don't think maybe holland missed something there.

And yes, the fact that Quincey did not make the team was indeed his own fault. That's pretty much exactly what I said.

I realize it's what you said. Because you can't fathom that holland made a mistake. His job is to recognize latent talent in players. Of course a lot of the fault goes with Quincey, but it's Holland's too.

Yeah, and you use hindsight to whine about Holland releasing him. That very senseless. I imagine that your very weak arguments about Quincey's supposed quality play back then are only intended to give you some base on which to whine.

I don't really understand your point here, but you're the one who has revised Quincey's play. He didn't win a spot, but you make it sound like he was a disaster out there and the Wings had to hide him on the bench.

Funny how you didn't address that pretty much any good coach would try to keep their bottom pairing away from the other team's top line, especially a rookie. That has nothing to do with Quincey's play.

Hopefully Ritola won't become another Quincey. If he does though, I'm sure you'll have plenty of posts about how it was all Ritola's fault.





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