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10/12 GDT: Avalanche 5 at Red Wings 4 (SO)


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#841 Nightfall

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 08:02 AM

Here are my thoughts on this game which I was quite dissappoined to watch, however not surprised.

- Howard looked pretty good, having some difficult saves, however he let in 3 brutal goals that NEEDED to be stopped
- Howard was not the reason the wings lost but he was a larger part of it
- The Wings were slow all night; they seemed to lose most puck battles and be too slow to receive passes
- Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Hank, Mule, Bert and Fil all looked good tonight
- PK was great
- Our 3rd line needs to work on their defensive play they were running around too much in our end
- the refs were very lame with their calls and missed calls
- Pavel made the pass of the year in OT to Nick too bad he hit the post
- faceoffs were simply not good enough tonight as in the last 2 games; historically the wings are ALWAYS very good at faceoffs so Babs needs to fix this

What I would like to see next game:
- I would like to see babs put Kronners back with Lidstrom because I think we need the best possible first d-man pairing to get play going
- Ozzie needs to be in net simply because he was a large factor for the Wings beating the Hawks while Howie was a factor for the loss tonight
- Personally I would like babs to rotate the 2 goalies every game for a while then start giving more starts to whomever is playing best (will motivate them)
- Z needs a bit more shots taken imo
- better outlet passing and puckpossession; more pucks on net

I agree with most of your points, but I will add in a few thoughts of my own.

First off, its easy for many of the members here to call out the goaltending or the refereeing as an excuse as to why we lost the game. Thats really a crappy thing to do being as that the Wings as a whole gave Colorado too much room in the offensive zone. A couple goals Howard should have had, but you could say the same about the Avs goalie as well. Neither goalie played their best game. If they were both on top of their game it would have been a 2-2 or a 3-3 game going into OT.

Blaming the refs is also lame as hell. I saw an obvious high stick that his Flip that wasn't called. At the same time though, I saw a couple tripping calls on the Wings that weren't called as well. The refs are only human, and they are the human element in the game that makes mistakes just like the players do. Trust me, as a ref myself, its impossible to get everything right and catch everything. The NHL refs are at the top of the ref chain for a reason.

The Wings lost that game as a team, pure and simple. Even with a subpar game, they got a shootout loss out of it. That has to count for something.
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#842 Ram

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 09:13 AM

Pick it up, Howie.

We'll be all right.

Go Wings

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#843 Doc Holliday

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 09:23 AM

I'd think the response was ridiculous too if I had absolutely no leg to stand on and was arguing for arguments sake. I know you were going to discuss this further because you cannot let someone else have the last word. You have this overbearing urge to be right and in your mind being right is being the last person to post.


No, I like to discuss things on this board. Strange, isn't it.

I didn't get defensive. Quite the contrary. I simply stated that Janik needed to be blamed for the loss as well, not just Howard. Your initial post solely blamed Howard, which I said was ridiculous. How this fact escapes you, especially since you typed it out, is beyond me. Then you proceeded to break down the game and continued to argue with me over the fact that you didn't just blame Howard but blamed other players/factors as well. While this is true after the fact, it was not true at the time of my initial response. It's easy to say such after the fact though. Then you proceeded to ignore facts and simply taunt by posting "derp derp" several times. That's a real great discussion you had going there.


For starters, I blamed multiple parties other than Howard way before you even came into the mix. Check my edit. Me saying derp derp was meant to highlight the fact you seemed to be missing the post that discussed how multiple players were at fault. And just because I gave Howard s*** in a post doesn't mean I think Howard is the only one at fault. I never once said he was.

It is really disingenuous of you to act as if you were merely expressing your opinion and were hounded by me without cause. Way to play the victim. To claim this as a matter of simply discussing the game and being blindsided by some nut case over semantics is how you would love for everyone to view this. We both know this to be patently false. The facts are simple: you posted about how Howard was solely at fault, I said this was untrue and that Janik deserved blame, you added/edited your post after I had already commented on it to discuss further blame and then chose to attack me and point out how you did not solely blame Howard. The result of that has led us here.


Read the edit times. I elaborated before you quoted me. And the bolded is blatantly false.

We can continue this argument, discussion as you say, or we cannot. That is not up to me. In my case, simply not replying would be much easier and less time consuming and would most certainly be in your best interest. This I will not do. I will not back down to some anonymous person at their computer who thinks they are superior to other posters and claim to be only wanting to discuss hockey. I will not let the facts be misconstrued and lost in a sea of words in an effort to discredit myself. I will readily admit that you did eventual spread the blame for the loss but the initial post is unavoidable. The facts speak for themselves and they do not speak in favor of you.


That is a boldfaced lie. Also getting angry at one player in one post does not mean I believed at the time he was the only one at fault. I just got angry at him first.

But of course this is all moot because I ELABORATED BEFORE YOU INITIATED CONVERSATION WITH ME.

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Edited by Doc Holliday, 13 October 2010 - 09:29 AM.

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#844 GoWings1905

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 09:40 AM

I'll just say this: If Ozzie had let in that second and fourth goal last night, this thread would be twice as long. Those were bad goals. I thought the third was stoppable too considering Jimmy got beat on the short-side. I'm not clamoring already for Ozzie to start, but we need Jimmy to be stronger on nights when the team in front of him is clearly off their game.

I thought the whole team looked like garbage last night besides a handful of players. Colorado had the puck way too much outside of a few spurts from the Red Wings. We had no answer to their forecheck, got trapped in our zone for extended stretches and took penalties because of it. The Avalanche outworked the Red Wings plain and simple.
 
 
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#845 VM1138

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 10:13 AM

I'll just say this: If Ozzie had let in that second and fourth goal last night, this thread would be twice as long. Those were bad goals. I thought the third was stoppable too considering Jimmy got beat on the short-side. I'm not clamoring already for Ozzie to start, but we need Jimmy to be stronger on nights when the team in front of him is clearly off their game.

I thought the whole team looked like garbage last night besides a handful of players. Colorado had the puck way too much outside of a few spurts from the Red Wings. We had no answer to their forecheck, got trapped in our zone for extended stretches and took penalties because of it. The Avalanche outworked the Red Wings plain and simple.


Even so, Osgood should get the next start. I'd rather have two ready goalies than a repeat of last year's debacle.
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#846 Howard He Do It?!

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 11:18 AM

I'll just say this: If Ozzie had let in that second and fourth goal last night, this thread would be twice as long. Those were bad goals. I thought the third was stoppable too considering Jimmy got beat on the short-side. I'm not clamoring already for Ozzie to start, but we need Jimmy to be stronger on nights when the team in front of him is clearly off their game.

I thought the whole team looked like garbage last night besides a handful of players. Colorado had the puck way too much outside of a few spurts from the Red Wings. We had no answer to their forecheck, got trapped in our zone for extended stretches and took penalties because of it. The Avalanche outworked the Red Wings plain and simple.

And those people would be wrong for blaming Ozzie. I don't understand why it is difficult for people to understand that the second goal was deflected off of Salei's stick and that Howard was screened by the pylon known as Janik on the fourth.

The only bad goal was the third one. No one was between Jimmy and the shooter and Jimmy got a piece of it but not enough. You cannot get beat short side under those circumstances especially in a game where your defense has shown that they are taking the night off.

Edited by Howard He Do It?!, 13 October 2010 - 11:22 AM.

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#847 Heaten

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 11:50 AM

Lol @ the bickering in this thread. It's one game (3rd in the season) and a SO loss. Who cares....

Furthermore, Avs are a good young hockey club that showed tons a resilience and wanted the win more.

Edited by Heaten, 13 October 2010 - 11:50 AM.


#848 Doc Holliday

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 12:00 PM

Even so, Osgood should get the next start. I'd rather have two ready goalies than a repeat of last year's debacle.


I think Osgood can still do fine without starting every other game.

Howard should start next. Bouncing back with a shutout in Dallas would be good for him.

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#849 GMRwings1983

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 12:18 PM

This is the best thread of the season so far.

:D

I can't wait for the Dallas game now. We had so many controversial games against them last year.

Edited by GMRwings1983, 13 October 2010 - 12:18 PM.

According to my profile, my reputation is excellent. LOL.

#850 Doc Holliday

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 12:26 PM

This is the best thread of the season so far.

:D

I can't wait for the Dallas game now. We had so many controversial games against them last year.


It's okay because Brad May won't be playing.

No more #1 fights for you. :hehe:

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#851 Nightfall

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 12:30 PM

Lol @ the bickering in this thread. It's one game (3rd in the season) and a SO loss. Who cares....

Furthermore, Avs are a good young hockey club that showed tons a resilience and wanted the win more.

100% correct.

A vast majority of Wings fans in here are very fickle. If the team wins, all is good with most people here. If the team loses, the refs, Bettman, Howard, Ozzie, Bert, 3rd liners, and everyone else under the sun is singled out. Its just tiring to hear over and over again. I swear that I get more intelligent hockey posts from the Wings fans on the HFBoards following a loss.
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#852 GMRwings1983

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 12:33 PM

It's okay because Brad May won't be playing.

No more #1 fights for you. :hehe:


Actuall, we're averaging a fight per game this season.

When Ericsson and Abby come back, we'll hopefully have a few more. Janik will do the fighting now, even though he's not great at it.

BTW, me and Mindfly want to welcome you to the club. ;) You'll be a valuable addition to our group with your argumentative skills and relentless energy.

Edited by GMRwings1983, 13 October 2010 - 12:34 PM.

According to my profile, my reputation is excellent. LOL.

#853 Howard He Do It?!

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 12:35 PM

"They competed for the whole 65 minutes. I was impressed with their group, I was less impressed with ours. We had tons of opportunity in overtime, but anytime you get outworked in your own building, that's unacceptable."
óRed Wings coach Mike Babcock.

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#854 Doc Holliday

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 12:38 PM

Actuall, we're averaging a fight per game this season.

When Ericsson and Abby come back, we'll hopefully have a few more. Janik will do the fighting now, even though he's not great at it.

BTW, me and Mindfly want to welcome you to the club. ;) You'll be a valuable addition to our group with your argumentative skills and relentless energy.


Psh. You wish.

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#855 mindfly

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 01:47 PM

This quote by babcock sums up Howard's performance:
"Asked about Howard's performance, Babcock said, "I thought Jimmy had a good shootout.''

#856 GoWings1905

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 02:00 PM

This quote by babcock sums up Howard's performance:
"Asked about Howard's performance, Babcock said, "I thought Jimmy had a good shootout.''


Ouch. You know it was a rough night when even Babs talks bad about his favorite goalie ever.

And those people would be wrong for blaming Ozzie. I don't understand why it is difficult for people to understand that the second goal was deflected off of Salei's stick and that Howard was screened by the pylon known as Janik on the fourth.

The only bad goal was the third one. No one was between Jimmy and the shooter and Jimmy got a piece of it but not enough. You cannot get beat short side under those circumstances especially in a game where your defense has shown that they are taking the night off.


The tying goal to Jones was awful. It went between Howard's legs - Janik being in front of him doesn't excuse a goal like that. I'm sure Jimmy himself would admit he has to stop that puck.

Edited by GoWings1905, 13 October 2010 - 02:01 PM.

 
 
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#857 Heaten

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 02:03 PM

Ouch. You know it was a bad night when even Babs talks bad about his favorite goalie ever.


Huh? :blink: I don't read "Babs talking bad" about Howard in that statement. What I am reading is he's trying to point out the positive and avoiding the negatives. You can't pin the loss on one single player.

Jesus H. Christ people, Wings have 5 points of a possible 6. Why is this GDT 43 pages?

#858 best poster in LGW history

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 02:13 PM

Huh? :blink: I don't read "Babs talking bad" about Howard in that statement. What I am reading is he's trying to point out the positive and avoiding the negatives. You can't pin the loss on one single player.


that is babcocks way of saying he was bad in the game.

babcock didn't work in sports psychology for nothing.

#859 GoWings1905

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 02:16 PM

Huh? :blink: I don't read "Babs talking bad" about Howard in that statement. What I am reading is he's trying to point out the positive and avoiding the negatives. You can't pin the loss on one single player.

Jesus H. Christ people, Wings have 5 points of a possible 6. Why is this GDT 43 pages?


If the positive was those six shooters then I think it's fair to assume the 65 previous minutes weren't so strong. I never blamed the entire loss on Jimmy - a few posts earlier I stated the entire team played like garbage. My point was Jimmy played a role with a couple of soft goals and obviously Babcock felt the same way although he said it more in an indirect manner. I'm sure Jimmy will be fine, but last night definitely wasn't a solid peformance in net.
 
 
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#860 pucktividi

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 02:17 PM

At least Jimmy admits he has to be better :clap:

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