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#41 Stolberg

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 08:14 PM

if only everyone was as perfect as nightfall



#42 dobbles

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 08:30 PM

I agree with you 100%. As a true fan of the Red Wings, I can tell you that there are parts of me that want to not come back to these forums. Mainly because of the attitude of some of the posters here. I regularly talk with Wings fans at lunch and have better conversations with them than I do with posters here. I guess a lot of it has to do with the fact that many internet posts can be brutal. People speak their minds, and with anonymity, truly nice people can turn into morons quickly.

I lay it out a lot like you do.

1. The management deserves our full support. If not for the consecutive postseason appearances, but for the tradition of winning that has been built.

2. The players deserve our full support. No player is going to be a top line player like Lidstrom for 20 years. Even he is not immune from the negativity, which surprises me. I guess all it took was one non-Norris trophy like season for the commoners to turn on our captain. Anyway, every player deserves to be supported. They all play their hearts out and to chew into them for their mistakes or belittle them is really dumb.

That isn't to say that conversation shouldn't happen. Sure, anyone can ask the question if "player A should be signed" or "player B didn't play well". What is just wrong are the attacks against players, management, and ownership from moronic fans. Case in point, look at the "need a goalie" post. Osgood has sucked the last 3 years? 2008 was one of his best seasons! Talk about uninformed and dumb just because of that fact.

A majority of posters in these forums are not true Wings fans.
They are what I would call bandwagoners. The instant that the team falls on hard times, these posters will be joining up on the Sharks or Hawks forums and claiming that they are fans. Just watch. All it will take is one bad season to make it happen. I certainly hope that doesn't happen, but I suppose there is an advantage if it does happen. Look at the Tampa Bay Lightning. When they won the Stanley Cup, everyone was a Lightning fan. I have a friend who has been a season ticket holder to the Lightning since they started playing. At the start, it was the ticket to have in Tampa Bay, and the general hockey knowledge was pretty low. After the Stanley Cup run, he would describe it as one of the most uninformed hockey fanbase he had ever known. Fans would ride the players and be non-supportive if they weren't doing well. Today, its a great time to be a hockey fan in Tampa Bay because the team is playing well, Yzerman is in charge, and the base of fans is small but they are die hard fans who support the team. That, IMHO, is the best time to be a real fan of the team.

Ah well, I have said enough.


This is very true. Without the common idiots, it really is not entertaining to go to forums and read the posts.


you come off way more 'douchey' than any fan that thinks draper or osgood or anyone else should retire...

I love Maltby, but to say he wasn't a ****** is a dis-service to his career of douchebaggery.


#43 IceMunkee

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 09:19 PM

Great post OP. The wings are far from finished. I agree on with points on both sides of the argument here. I agree that the Wings have only played 4 games thus far and two were fantastic, one rougher for some, and one terrible game. But the real debate surfacing from this topic is the "real fan" debate.

Doc you make some great points. Why do the doom and glooms get pinned as "stupid", "unfaithful", or even "fake"? Why is it that the "homer" fans are the ones doing the pinning? If any fan to me is under the light it would be the homer's. Saying the Wings are perfect and nothing should ever be said differently is just denial. Consider a wife that gets beat or a friend that has a friend with a drug problem but says nothing because neither wants to rock the boat. It is disaster waiting to happen. Any fan that comes on to forum and takes the time to write has got to be a fan. One poster said that the nastiness is not heard at work and the reason is because the are faceless on the Internet. I could not agree more. The two types of people you will talk to about the wings face to face are fans that watch the team and follow it and have intelligent conversations and the ones that listened to their local sports talk radio and the news and just simply regurgitating the venom of headline grabbers. The intelligent ones may be some that come on her and say Ozzy retire because they feel stupid saying it in person.

As far as the Wings and Brass deserving things from us. Doc hits it on the head. The Wings do not wake up at six in the morning after a west coast swing. They do not pay us to come watch our days at work. They don't send money to us when we struggle to pay the bills. The get our hard earned money on apparel, games, center ice packages, and our admiration. They earned those things but the don't deserve them. With out the Wings our life's will start with work in the morning and continue on as normal, we would just find something different to occupy or minds and wallets. Without us, though, the Wings learn what it is like to be normal. The get a 9-5 in ordinary jobs and have a Ford Focus instead of a Benz. If you ask me we deserve to have them play 100% and give us what we love. Skilled, hard-nosed hockey and the Lord Stanley.

No matter what, Go Wings! Keep supporting the Red and White because we are few.
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#44 SweWings

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 09:40 PM

I agree with you 100%. As a true fan of the Red Wings, I can tell you that there are parts of me that want to not come back to these forums. Mainly because of the attitude of some of the posters here. I regularly talk with Wings fans at lunch and have better conversations with them than I do with posters here. I guess a lot of it has to do with the fact that many internet posts can be brutal. People speak their minds, and with anonymity, truly nice people can turn into morons quickly.

I lay it out a lot like you do.

1. The management deserves our full support. If not for the consecutive postseason appearances, but for the tradition of winning that has been built.

2. The players deserve our full support. No player is going to be a top line player like Lidstrom for 20 years. Even he is not immune from the negativity, which surprises me. I guess all it took was one non-Norris trophy like season for the commoners to turn on our captain. Anyway, every player deserves to be supported. They all play their hearts out and to chew into them for their mistakes or belittle them is really dumb.

That isn't to say that conversation shouldn't happen. Sure, anyone can ask the question if "player A should be signed" or "player B didn't play well". What is just wrong are the attacks against players, management, and ownership from moronic fans. Case in point, look at the "need a goalie" post. Osgood has sucked the last 3 years? 2008 was one of his best seasons! Talk about uninformed and dumb just because of that fact.

A majority of posters in these forums are not true Wings fans. They are what I would call bandwagoners. The instant that the team falls on hard times, these posters will be joining up on the Sharks or Hawks forums and claiming that they are fans. Just watch. All it will take is one bad season to make it happen. I certainly hope that doesn't happen, but I suppose there is an advantage if it does happen. Look at the Tampa Bay Lightning. When they won the Stanley Cup, everyone was a Lightning fan. I have a friend who has been a season ticket holder to the Lightning since they started playing. At the start, it was the ticket to have in Tampa Bay, and the general hockey knowledge was pretty low. After the Stanley Cup run, he would describe it as one of the most uninformed hockey fanbase he had ever known. Fans would ride the players and be non-supportive if they weren't doing well. Today, its a great time to be a hockey fan in Tampa Bay because the team is playing well, Yzerman is in charge, and the base of fans is small but they are die hard fans who support the team. That, IMHO, is the best time to be a real fan of the team.

Ah well, I have said enough.


This is very true. Without the common idiots, it really is not entertaining to go to forums and read the posts.

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#45 GMRwings1983

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 09:51 PM

Someone should start a thread titled "We Need Better Team"

:D
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#46 Shoreline

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Posted 17 October 2010 - 12:25 AM

I agree with you 100%. As a true fan of the Red Wings, I can tell you that there are parts of me that want to not come back to these forums. Mainly because of the attitude of some of the posters here. I regularly talk with Wings fans at lunch and have better conversations with them than I do with posters here. I guess a lot of it has to do with the fact that many internet posts can be brutal. People speak their minds, and with anonymity, truly nice people can turn into morons quickly.

I lay it out a lot like you do.

1. The management deserves our full support. If not for the consecutive postseason appearances, but for the tradition of winning that has been built.

2. The players deserve our full support. No player is going to be a top line player like Lidstrom for 20 years. Even he is not immune from the negativity, which surprises me. I guess all it took was one non-Norris trophy like season for the commoners to turn on our captain. Anyway, every player deserves to be supported. They all play their hearts out and to chew into them for their mistakes or belittle them is really dumb.

That isn't to say that conversation shouldn't happen. Sure, anyone can ask the question if "player A should be signed" or "player B didn't play well". What is just wrong are the attacks against players, management, and ownership from moronic fans. Case in point, look at the "need a goalie" post. Osgood has sucked the last 3 years? 2008 was one of his best seasons! Talk about uninformed and dumb just because of that fact.

A majority of posters in these forums are not true Wings fans. They are what I would call bandwagoners. The instant that the team falls on hard times, these posters will be joining up on the Sharks or Hawks forums and claiming that they are fans. Just watch. All it will take is one bad season to make it happen. I certainly hope that doesn't happen, but I suppose there is an advantage if it does happen. Look at the Tampa Bay Lightning. When they won the Stanley Cup, everyone was a Lightning fan. I have a friend who has been a season ticket holder to the Lightning since they started playing. At the start, it was the ticket to have in Tampa Bay, and the general hockey knowledge was pretty low. After the Stanley Cup run, he would describe it as one of the most uninformed hockey fanbase he had ever known. Fans would ride the players and be non-supportive if they weren't doing well. Today, its a great time to be a hockey fan in Tampa Bay because the team is playing well, Yzerman is in charge, and the base of fans is small but they are die hard fans who support the team. That, IMHO, is the best time to be a real fan of the team.

Ah well, I have said enough.

This is very true. Without the common idiots, it really is not entertaining to go to forums and read the posts.

What you say is true, especially about bandwagoning, but it's not going to get a good reception since it's a rather inconvenient truth and aimed at a good part of the populace that won't receive it well. It wouldn't surprise me if Wings easily have the largest fan base in the world of any hockey team. Gotta expect with larger numbers, it means more stupid people, more twitchy neurotic bandwagon fans ready to call off the season after a few games, seem to confuse criticism and anger over one game for endless pessimism and negativity, and so on -- so much for cheering for your team and enjoying watching hockey. Rather than get pissed at most of the crap you read here that you'd never hear aloud at a sports bar without that person getting their ass chewed out, just mock and make fun of them. They likely won't like this idea either but oh well, who cares. Though I have to admit, last season I had more than enough of how much the Wings suck balls and won't make the playoffs, only to do that and better. It's likely why I kinda stick to other forum parts, because even arguments and debates and pointless spam there, it doesn't quite reach the stupidity of neurotic bandwagoners.

Edited by Shoreline, 17 October 2010 - 12:26 AM.


#47 Booster313

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Posted 17 October 2010 - 12:33 AM

Someone should start a thread titled "We Need Better Team"

:D


Really???

Or do I detect sarcasm? In the NHL it doesn't get any better...unless you happen to live in Chicago, or Anaheim, or Pittsburgh, or Colorado in the late 90's

:)

What kind of color is red? Red is a warning, a declaration, a color that says I'm ready to do what it takes. Red is focused and driven because red doesn't like second place. So what kind of color is red? Their kind.

#48 titanium2

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Posted 17 October 2010 - 12:36 AM

Or how about...

We need more shoot.

Like Pavel says sometimes.

#49 Nightfall

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Posted 17 October 2010 - 01:17 PM

This board represents like 1% of wings fans, I wouldn't take anything anyone says on this board seriously anyways. most of the "fans" on here became fans in the late 90's, 2002, 2008, if you know what I mean. I just have a blast reading some of the comments on here by the people who think they know hockey but have never even laced up the skates.

I 100% agree with this. The best move I ever made was to actually play hockey. I started playing about 10 years ago and I have never given it up. Its the best sport out there and one I am glad I play. That being said, there are a lot of fans on this forum who criticize the goaltending or players who really don't know the game of hockey and how forgiving or unforgiving it can be.
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#50 Nightfall

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Posted 17 October 2010 - 01:23 PM

if only everyone was as perfect as nightfall



you come off way more 'douchey' than any fan that thinks draper or osgood or anyone else should retire...


Hey, I call it like I see it. A true fan stands behind his/her team. A true fan discusses what is going on with the team and supports the management. A true fan doesn't throw the players on their team under a bus. A true fan doesn't bad mouth the management or players when they make a mistake. IMHO, we have a lot of fickle fairweather fans on this forum. We need more supportive fans instead of fans that are all "Debbie Downers" and looking to insult the team, players, or management. Thats my stance.
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#51 dobbles

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Posted 17 October 2010 - 09:25 PM

Hey, I call it like I see it. A true fan stands behind his/her team. A true fan discusses what is going on with the team and supports the management. A true fan doesn't throw the players on their team under a bus. A true fan doesn't bad mouth the management or players when they make a mistake. IMHO, we have a lot of fickle fairweather fans on this forum. We need more supportive fans instead of fans that are all "Debbie Downers" and looking to insult the team, players, or management. Thats my stance.


i agree to an extent. the point of a forum is constructive discussion and debate. and all teams do have bad fans on both ends of the spectrum.

to me, the biggest problem you see on the message board is that due to the variety of opinions, it appears as if the fans are way more negative than they are. for example, my pet peeve might be ericsson. so i might complain about him regularly. your pet peeve might be bertuzzi. another person might have a problem with hudler. and once you add up all the different folks complaints, half the team is on the list! so even if a player has 95% popularity, there will still be a fair amount of people out there complaining. so since the forum is a repository for all complaints, it can look worse than it is.


to me though, and the reason i made my initial comment, it too many people come off all pious telling others how to be a fan. there seems to be the same set of posters that come into any thread that has a negative comment saying that the red wings never make a mistake and holland is perfect and that the wings wouldnt have all these cups and all these playoff appearences if they were wrong. and to me its just gross hyperbole. obviously the wings are a great organization because they have good overall decision making. they have great scouting. great player relations. etc... but that doesn't mean that drafting yuri butsayev was the best decision in 97. they have done things wrong. thankfully they were often minor and insignificant. but it is ok to question moves.

I love Maltby, but to say he wasn't a ****** is a dis-service to his career of douchebaggery.


#52 Broken 16

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Posted 17 October 2010 - 09:46 PM

All the really successful sports teams have the most neurotic fans.

Fans have the right to think what they want. They don't "owe" the team anything really. The team provides fans with entertainment, while fans provide teams and owners with actual revenue, which goes into player salaries.

LGW is actually more fun with neurotic threads. Go to a Panthers or Thrashers board, and see how many people give a damn there. Not many, hence not as interesting a discussion board.



This. The more silliness, the better. The silly threads are easy to spot and easily avoided if one is so inclined. :)

Edited by Broken 16, 17 October 2010 - 09:47 PM.


#53 Hockeytown0001

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Posted 17 October 2010 - 10:58 PM

We needs more goalz.

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#54 miller76

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Posted 17 October 2010 - 11:16 PM

we need better posters on lgw
lighten up people, it's the internet!

#55 55fan

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 01:05 AM

we need better posters on lgw

Maybe you could find one here.

#56 SouthernWingsFan

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 05:41 AM

We need more cookies in this thread.

And an enforcer.

:ph34r:



Give me some slack, I'm not funny to begin with and it's 5:40am at present.

#57 Nightfall

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 08:45 AM

i agree to an extent. the point of a forum is constructive discussion and debate. and all teams do have bad fans on both ends of the spectrum.

to me, the biggest problem you see on the message board is that due to the variety of opinions, it appears as if the fans are way more negative than they are. for example, my pet peeve might be ericsson. so i might complain about him regularly. your pet peeve might be bertuzzi. another person might have a problem with hudler. and once you add up all the different folks complaints, half the team is on the list! so even if a player has 95% popularity, there will still be a fair amount of people out there complaining. so since the forum is a repository for all complaints, it can look worse than it is.


to me though, and the reason i made my initial comment, it too many people come off all pious telling others how to be a fan. there seems to be the same set of posters that come into any thread that has a negative comment saying that the red wings never make a mistake and holland is perfect and that the wings wouldnt have all these cups and all these playoff appearences if they were wrong. and to me its just gross hyperbole. obviously the wings are a great organization because they have good overall decision making. they have great scouting. great player relations. etc... but that doesn't mean that drafting yuri butsayev was the best decision in 97. they have done things wrong. thankfully they were often minor and insignificant. but it is ok to question moves.

IMHO, there is a big difference between questioning a move and saying Holland is an idiot. There is a big difference between being peeved off that Lidstrom made a bad pass that gave up a goal and calling him old and he should retire because he has lost it. Its the difference between being discussing what happened in the course of a game, and bashing a player and an organization.

I am not above saying that the Wings management doesn't make errors. Same with the players. That being said, its always easy to look at moves in hindsight and belittle an organization years later. Its also easy to say a move should have been made instead of waiting to see the results of the seeds that you plant today. I guess the thing to realize here is that fans are not patient (except if you live in Minnesota and cheer for the Wild). :D

I do have to agree with you that the negative comments are quite frequent in here, and that sometimes it can be a bit overwhelming. I am a very positive person, and these forums really don't do much when it comes to keeping things on the positive. For an organization as great as the Red Wings, it surprises me just how many Debbie Downers there are on this forum. It really makes me wonder how so many "Red Wing Fans" can be against the team, players, management, and ownership. It really does remind me of these steps in the process.....

1. Team plays well
2. The bandwagon fans roll in expecting perfection
3. Fans and Bandwagon Fans enjoy the team, and find a middle ground.
4. Team falls on hard times
5. Bandwagoners roll out leaving the true fans to enjoy the team.
6. Go to step 1

We have been in step 3 for the last 17 years.

Ah well, I guess the bottom line for me is that it grates my gears to see so many fans against so many of the players, management, and ownership. I will try to temper my expectations and be a little more forgiving. Its just hard for me to do.
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#58 Hatethedrake!

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 09:36 AM

We need the Wings to play exactly like Babs wants them to. Outwork their opponent and come after them wave after wave. When the Wings are ON it's great to watch. There will be some nights where they just don't have it. That I can live with. But not each game, being outworked by the other team. 3-1-1 is not bad for a team which has basically half assed it so far. Hopefully they can sweep this 4 game homestand and get some momentum going.
Jordan Tootoo will wreck shop.

We need someone like Parise that can penetrate the box.-blueadams

#59 Konnan511

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 03:15 PM

Successful teams have a high majority of Bandwagon fans. Letsgowings has a high concentration of these people. Look at the post count and join join date and their rep to see if they are bandwagon fans or simpleton.
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#60 SouthernWingsFan

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 04:03 PM

It's a what have you done for me lately business, no matter if it's just the 2nd game of the season or the 200th, fair or unfair. And fans in general, while a game is being played or immediately before or after it, rarely think big picture I think - whether it is understanding that your team is rebuilding and probably won't make the post sesason, whether your team is consistently good and shouldn't have trouble making the postseason, whether the season is young and there is a long time to fix any consistent mistakes, whatever.

I think you can call a spade a spade whenever you want to whether it's just 1 game into a season or 50, and nobody is off limits to criticism, but it helps to not be closed-minded IMO and just focus on the current game itself whether a team or somebody stinks up the joint and think that is how the rest of the season will go for that team or player. Pretty much any team and any player will go hot and cold in a lengthy season.

And, as the original poster mentioned earlier, I do not question the fan status either of people that act like idiots (to me) saying so-and-so should retire or are just way too knee-jerkish, even though I'd like to punch them half the time for not using their brains. As much as I think the knee-jerk reaction is stupid, I don't like getting into the real vs. fake fan b.s. because of whether you are knee-jerkish or a puckbunny or whatever because that's all it is, b.s. If you watch the games and have an interest in the team doing well, you're a fan.

However, a lot of these people get butthurt if they get called out, they might yell that others are homers or can't question the team or whatever. I'm certainly not implying that and I'm sorry, but I have just as much right as you do to state my case and say that you are acting obnoxious if you think the sky is falling or stuff like so and so should retire after just 1 or 2 games in a season or any other player is useless when it obviously won't happen and these players are certainly capable professionals, or else they wouldn't be here. Again, everybody will ebb/flow from time to time and pinning losses or singling out one player to blame for a loss by the team is incredibly stupid unless it is dead obvious. For one person's lack of production in a game, I can probably give you several of other examples that were major factors in a loss (i.e. in Dallas loss - Osgood getting a s**tload of blame letting in 4 goals that he pretty much had little/no chance on all of them even though Dallas had limited opps. - what about lack of power play production, Stuart being lackadasial on one of the 3rd or 4th goals, etc.).

Basically, to me it's all about the tone. Don't being so knee-jerkish in a panic or pissed off mode and you'll be taken a bit more seriously. Example - "Player x is a weak puckhandler or not aggressive enough". Good tone even though I might not like it and might not agree with you. "THIS DUDE IS USELESS AND NEEDS TO BE TRADED FOR A BAG OF PUCKS OR SHOULD RETIRE!!!", bad tone.





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