The Third Line

[Guest Stolberg]

http://deanjackson.d...r+modano+cleary

LECHERY AND MALODOUR

Edited October 24, 2010 by Stolberg

[egroen 384]

They had one great shift with sustained pressure and about 4 quality chances tonight... but no one is burying it (which just seems crazy as all 3 are legit 20 goal scorers)!

Other than that either invisible to noticeably bad.

Looks like Babcock is decreasing their minutes as well (outside of Cleary, who gets time on the 1st line on the odd shift).

I'd give it another 5 games max, as it is so enticing on paper, before completely mixing up the 3rd and 4th lines... maybe returning to it later in the season.

[crotty99 302]

It seemed that way whenever Sammy was next to him along the point too. Smart guy I guess.

Maybe he'll only decide to pass it to him if he's got good space for a shot.

I actually Like Modano on the PP. Wish he would shoot more though.

Once again the third line looked rough tonight. They had one really good play with several scoring oppurtunites, no one would shoot the puck!

[dobbles 252]

They had one great shift with sustained pressure and about 4 quality chances tonight... but no one is burying it (which just seems crazy as all 3 are legit 20 goal scorers)!

Other than that either invisible to noticeably bad.

Looks like Babcock is decreasing their minutes as well (outside of Cleary, who gets time on the 1st line on the odd shift).

I'd give it another 5 games max, as it is so enticing on paper, before completely mixing up the 3rd and 4th lines... maybe returning to it later in the season.

personally, the reason i want to see some tweaks made now is so they can get guys going and then get back to this as their 3rd line. i think its the best combo of guys. but for whatever reason it isn't working now. if you can change it up for a few games and get some guys playing better, then all of a sudden this line can be more effective.

i would just rather see the changes sooner than later; because if you let it go and there is no confidence in that line working together, then it pretty much goes out the window the rest of the season.

obviously getting abdelkader back gives more flexibility in the bottom 6, but i just think waiting will do no good. start changing the bottom 6 around to see if anything sparks.

[Buppy 1,720]

While I don't think anything necessarily has to be done, I think a change might be good. The biggest problem is that the other three lines have all looked really good.

If Happy or Modano would just shoot the damn puck the line would be fine. Probably 3 or 4 more goals. Give both of them extra shooting drills in practice all week, and tell them that whichever one gets fewer shots next Thursday is getting benched for Abby.

[rick zombo 3,739]

All stupid fantasy league stuff aside, I actually think Cleary is the worst part about that line right now. Hudler and Modano may be a bit slow to adjust or whatever, but Selanne's goal was Cleary's fault. I think he still has injury issues.

[Guest Stolberg]

yeah that goal was all on cleary

he shouldn't have used his powers of combination to become both kronwall and howard

[Buppy 1,720]

yeah that goal was all on cleary

he shouldn't have used his powers of combination to become both kronwall and howard

It was a bad turnover by Cleary. Can't blame Kronwall for not being as fast as Selanne, and even though it was 5-hole, you can't really blame Jimmy either. Selanne is a 600+ goal scorer.

That said, Rick is out of his mind. Cleary hasn't been spectacular, but he's been the best player on that line.

[dragonballgtz 273]

All stupid fantasy league stuff aside, I actually think Cleary is the worst part about that line right now. Hudler and Modano may be a bit slow to adjust or whatever, but Selanne's goal was Cleary's fault. I think he still has injury issues.

All three have been their own faults but mixed together they become even more apparent.

[Guest mjtm77]

We are 5-1-1 anyone els say we leave the lines the way they are?

[Reilly 24]

We are 5-1-1 anyone els say we leave the lines the way they are?

Well you have to because lines 1,2, and 4 are playing well. When Abdelkader comes back, however, I'd be in favor of sitting one of Hudler, Modano, and Cleary for a couple games just to see what happens.

[Joseph Franks 17]

All stupid fantasy league stuff aside, I actually think Cleary is the worst part about that line right now. Hudler and Modano may be a bit slow to adjust or whatever, but Selanne's goal was Cleary's fault. I think he still has injury issues.

Cleary has been working harder than the rest of that line. If you're the only guy out there really trying, you burn yourself out a bit faster. I agree, it was mainly Cleary's fault, but overall he's the only one on the third line that is actually playing like a 3rd liner should play.

The line is a bit of a disappointment so far. But then again, when your top 6 is producing, it buys time for your third line to click or not.

If our top 6 were slumping, we'd be bitching about them. Since they're not, we just move onto the next target. I'm just surprised we haven't blamed Jimmy yet....since typically it goes Blame the Goaltender, then the top line, then the depth lines. Fortunately in Detroit, nobody is dumb enough to blame the coaching lol.

An intangible that goes unnoticed, is that the third line is really running people up and down the ice, and wearing out the depth of other teams. Unfortunately, they're also letting in more goals than they are scoring......

I don't follow the mentality of many fans on this forum. I mean.....for gods sakes we had "Is Zetterberg slowing down" threads 5 games into the season......... While there's a lot of great fans on this forum, and admittedly when I get drunk I'm as much a retard fan as any.....I don't think it's time to give up on line 3 quite yet.

There's three primary factors that the third line needs to work on. 1) Chemistry within the line. I honestly believe Cleary is the most important person on the line right now, because he works the hardest. They need to find a solution where Modano and Hudler can get room to move, instead of having our third line run breakout plays over and over, that typically get shut down in the neutral zone, or end up with a puck dump. Your third line in hockey is a grinder line, with occasional scoring. But in this third line you got Modano, who wants a solid close out year. You got Hudler who wants a solid come-back year, And you got cleary who wants to be ready to break the top six.

All individual goals, and it is showing in their play-styles

2) The matchups. Playing a line of individuals against lines that are specifically put together to be "Shut down" lines (Aka the opponents third lines). This one is on Babcock. Our third line playing against other third lines, is leading to their third lines scoring more than ours is. The dilema here is that you can't move any guys upward, since the top 2 lines are clicking. But you can't move them down either. Perhaps just changing some pairings (Not within the lines, but in which lines they play against) will spark something.

3) Again, overpowered by the top lines, the third line gets less and less opportunity to produce in the game. This, unfortunately, is a spiral downward for a non-productive line.

You go back five years, and you won't find any debates about the third lines production, because it wasn't expected. Now we expect it, and are being highly critical.

I mean we're 5-1-1. We have a 3 game win streak (Longest current in the NHL). We're winning games like last night, that we could have easily lost.

Franzen is scoring. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, are both scoring. Even Bertuzzi is doing well.

What the HELL do you people want?

Edited October 24, 2010 by Joseph Franks

[pucktividi 472]

this is just hilarious.we've been all complaining about depth scoring and now it seems we don't need it with 1,2 and 4th line playing like this.

I'd just call our 3rd line "the Sleepers",cause once when they wake up,this team would be even more scary

[HOCKEY MATTERS 167]

this is just hilarious.we've been all complaining about depth scoring and now it seems we don't need it with 1,2 and 4th line playing like this.

I'd just call our 3rd line "the Sleepers",cause once when they wake up,this team would be even more scary

plus 1 muchacho. And they will wake up.

[titanium2 867]

I'm starting to wonder if there really is such a thing as a team "firing on all cylinders" so to speak.

In all honesty and realism, what would that even look like for this team?

[esteef 2,679]

Cleary has been working harder than the rest of that line...

...What the HELL do you people want?

Shorter posts!

esteef

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

All stupid fantasy league stuff aside, I actually think Cleary is the worst part about that line right now. Hudler and Modano may be a bit slow to adjust or whatever, but Selanne's goal was Cleary's fault. I think he still has injury issues.

I strongly disagree. Other than the bad turnover that led to the Selanne goal, Cleary has been the best thing about that line. Which is why he was out on the ice with Datsyuk and Zetterberg in the game's final minutes.

They could put together a highlight reel of Modano's half-assed puck pursuit. He takes a couple whacks at it, then sort of stands there as he watched the guy skate away from him. And Hudler's just so damn small and not strong on his skates he's not going to be that great battling defensively.

[Datsyuk Fan 14]

I'm starting to wonder if there really is such a thing as a team "firing on all cylinders" so to speak.

In all honesty and realism, what would that even look like for this team?

Game 7 against Phoenix?

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

Game 7 against Phoenix?

Not to mention Game 4 against San Jose, Detroit's opener against Anaheim, and countless other games.

[eva unit zero 271]

1) Chemistry within the line. I honestly believe Cleary is the most important person on the line right now, because he works the hardest. They need to find a solution where Modano and Hudler can get room to move, instead of having our third line run breakout plays over and over, that typically get shut down in the neutral zone, or end up with a puck dump. Your third line in hockey is a grinder line, with occasional scoring. But in this third line you got Modano, who wants a solid close out year. You got Hudler who wants a solid come-back year, And you got cleary who wants to be ready to break the top six.

All individual goals, and it is showing in their play-styles

2) The matchups. Playing a line of individuals against lines that are specifically put together to be "Shut down" lines (Aka the opponents third lines). This one is on Babcock. Our third line playing against other third lines, is leading to their third lines scoring more than ours is. The dilema here is that you can't move any guys upward, since the top 2 lines are clicking. But you can't move them down either. Perhaps just changing some pairings (Not within the lines, but in which lines they play against) will spark something.

Two very good and accurate reasons, and basically explainable. Babcock had the personnel to create three solid scoring lines with defensive ability, and he basically took his top twelve forwards and did this:

Decided on top line.

Decided on second line.

Figured out who was better suited to scoring line (third) or checking line (fourth) and decided on those.

Hudler, Modano, and Cleary basically were 'left over' from Babcock's line creation process for his top two lines. While the top two lines are working well, would they not be working as well with Hudler and Bertuzzi switched? Or Cleary/Bertuzzi? Or Modano/Bertuzzi? Babcock's "plan for each line was to have one big body with net presence, one shooter, and one grinder. Who's the net presence on the third line? Cleary? Hudler? Modano? All are capable of playing in front of the net, but you can't seriously claim any of them to be a Holmstrom, Franzen, Bertuzzi, etc. type and use the description "big body with net presence" on them. The third line is missing a key element of Babcock's "plan" and it's because Babcock was not really concerned about what it looked like.

[Carman 387]

Two very good and accurate reasons, and basically explainable. Babcock had the personnel to create three solid scoring lines with defensive ability, and he basically took his top twelve forwards and did this:

Decided on top line.

Decided on second line.

Figured out who was better suited to scoring line (third) or checking line (fourth) and decided on those.

Hudler, Modano, and Cleary basically were 'left over' from Babcock's line creation process for his top two lines. While the top two lines are working well, would they not be working as well with Hudler and Bertuzzi switched? Or Cleary/Bertuzzi? Or Modano/Bertuzzi? Babcock's "plan for each line was to have one big body with net presence, one shooter, and one grinder. Who's the net presence on the third line? Cleary? Hudler? Modano? All are capable of playing in front of the net, but you can't seriously claim any of them to be a Holmstrom, Franzen, Bertuzzi, etc. type and use the description "big body with net presence" on them. The third line is missing a key element of Babcock's "plan" and it's because Babcock was not really concerned about what it looked like.

Cleary should be able to play a net front role just fine. For example on the Datsyuk game winner yesterday.

The line is just not skating and winning battles. They aren't finding each other in space with passes, they aren't forechecking well, and defensively they've been weak.

Edited October 24, 2010 by Carman

[chrisdetroit 189]

Cleary should be able to play a net front role just fine. For example on the Datsyuk game winner yesterday.

The line is just not skating and winning battles. They aren't finding each other in space with passes, they aren't forechecking well, and defensively they've been weak.

7 games in and it starts....

[Carman 387]

7 games in and it starts....

Sorry I guess I should wait until 8 then.

I'm not saying we need to do anything drastic, but I really wouldn't mind seeing a little mix up on the bottom lines to hopefully get them going Babcock usually mixes the lines up anyways. It should have no effect on our top 2 lines... I don't see what's so horrible about pointing out that a line is under performing right now?

Modano/Cleary/Hudler have not been good, and have actually hurt us. We are going to need all of those players to produce at one point or another this season...

[Buppy 1,720]

Two very good and accurate reasons, and basically explainable. Babcock had the personnel to create three solid scoring lines with defensive ability, and he basically took his top twelve forwards and did this:

Decided on top line.

Decided on second line.

Figured out who was better suited to scoring line (third) or checking line (fourth) and decided on those.

Hudler, Modano, and Cleary basically were 'left over' from Babcock's line creation process for his top two lines. While the top two lines are working well, would they not be working as well with Hudler and Bertuzzi switched? Or Cleary/Bertuzzi? Or Modano/Bertuzzi? Babcock's "plan for each line was to have one big body with net presence, one shooter, and one grinder. Who's the net presence on the third line? Cleary? Hudler? Modano? All are capable of playing in front of the net, but you can't seriously claim any of them to be a Holmstrom, Franzen, Bertuzzi, etc. type and use the description "big body with net presence" on them. The third line is missing a key element of Babcock's "plan" and it's because Babcock was not really concerned about what it looked like.

You're high. Cleary is better in front of the net than either Bert or Mule. Aside from Homer, he's really the only one any good at it. Bert probably could be, but he doesn't seem to want to. Franzen isn't very good at taking punishment, and even if he was he's too valuable away from the net to limit him to that role.

Aside from the s***ty defense, the biggest problem on that line is terrible shot selection. Seems every game either Hudler or Modano passes up a great scoring chance in favor of some fancy pass through heavy traffic. None of them are great with the puck, but with better shot selection, a lot of the turnovers would go away.

[Grim 5]

Kenny should move Happy to Atlanta and somehow rescue Dustin Byfuglien. Having said that, the Wings are right up against the cap... not sure if there is sufficient wiggle room for any moves.