118 replies to this topic

[Hockeytown0001]

I agree here, again, as I point out a handful of posts above, the average football hit is going to be more solid and happen more frequently than open ice hockey hits. The numbers and tool above are useful for comparing best case scenario hits, however. It's mostly to counter the arguments that the hardest (reasonably clean) hockey hits aren't as hard as the hardest (reasonably clean) football hits based on 'but football players are much larger!'. That's simply a poor understanding of the physics involved.

One thing worth noting is if you watch a highlight reel of the hardest 'clean' hits in the NHL vs hardest 'clean' hits in the NFL, a lot more of the NFL guys get up and walk away from it. NHL guys subjected to a solid open ice hit usually have their day (week/month/season) wrecked.

Hockey players are still tougher than just about anyone else. Ryan Malone takes a slap shot off the nose, he's back the next period. A baseball player hurts his finger, he's out for a month.

[scottj]

While I agree that pro hockey players are tough mofos, baseball players tend to use their fingers a lot more than hockey players use their noses lol

[Datsyerberger]

Here's a couple videos, both best cast scenario, solid contact hits:





Both clean hits, both solid, both involve a moving object and a relatively stationary object. Both Reggie and RJ get their s*** ruined.

However, even given the likely difference in player weight, even a 2mph difference is enough to push the hockey hit over the top in force. At least Reggie was able to get up for a moment. RJ was just destroyed. I wouldn't want to be either of them, mind you.

Also keep in mind that, assuming both players are completely stunned/out of control when they fall, and both fall on their back, RJ is going to have a harder impact on the fall... ice is significantly more solid than any average ground. Though that's relatively inconsequential in context of either of these hits.

[NGKEIB]

Rugby isn't even tough, so that's why they don't need to wear pads.

Football players are superior athletes anyways, and it's a better sport to watch.

Soccer doesn't even count as a physical activity so it doesn't deserve the name.

I assume you're joking. Rugby players actually play more than 10 minutes a night, which is something football players can't say (and I'm not talking about time on the field, I'm talking about the time the ball is actually in play). Furthermore, even the least mobile front-rower in rugby is still far more morbile than the biggest football players. I won't even bother with the statement regarding the toughness of the sport.

Hockey players are still tougher than just about anyone else. Ryan Malone takes a slap shot off the nose, he's back the next period. A baseball player hurts his finger, he's out for a month.

Each sport has its tough guys. Sure, players like Coburn, Duchene and Malone are all warriors - but what about guys like Gaborik? Take rugby for instance - blood replacements happen all of the time (you're bleeding from the head, so you go off for five minutes to get stitched up, and come back on).

Regarding the 'toughness and fitness' of football players, bear statistics like this in mind:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704281204575002852055561406.html

[Vladifan]

Here's a fun little tool to add to this that'll help those of you who are uncertain on physics to see calculations of hits.

http://www.exploratorium.edu/hockey/checking2.html

If you want to set up an example comparison, you can use Lindros (230 lbs) moving 17mph hitting Tkachuk (220 lbs) moving 14mph to simulate a very high speed football hit.

Then, to take into account average weight differential, you can use Leetch (190 lbs) moving 19mph hitting Sakic (185 lbs) moving 16mph to simulate an average speed open ice hockey hit.

The 230 vs 190 and 220 vs 185 is roughly the same percentile difference as the weight of an average NFL player compared to an average NHL player (~250 average for NFL player vs ~205 for NHL player).

To add some numbers used elsewhere (you can easily calculate this on your own with any number of online calculators), a 200lb hockey player moving 24mph has as much force as a 350lb football player moving 18mph. Again, just another example to put in perspective how much more important speed is in a calculation of force than mass.

Might this be the only constant in this whole discussion? Other than equipment?

[Carman]

I assume you're joking. Rugby players actually play more than 10 minutes a night, which is something football players can't say (and I'm not talking about time on the field, I'm talking about the time the ball is actually in play). Furthermore, even the least mobile front-rower in rugby is still far more morbile than the biggest football players. I won't even bother with the statement regarding the toughness of the sport.

yeah that was a sarcastic response to a guy just bashing "American football"

That said when you get into the discussion of athleticism, it's very hard to compare the sports. They play a completely different game that's focused around a Anaerobic exercise with an quick spurt of physical exertion, compared to a more aerobic exercise which has moderate energy exertion throughout a lengthy period of time. It's two different kind's of fitness that I have a hard time comparing.

I'm willing to bet a Rugby player can run a lot longer, but I also would bet a offensive line man will bench more etc.

[Hey man nice shot!]

i just read topic didnt see if anyone posted this yet...but it has already been presented on sport science. Football by alot.

[Carman]

i just read topic didnt see if anyone posted this yet...but it has already been presented on sport science. Football by alot.

Here is part of it.

I don't know if that's fair, considering they are giving him ample room to gain speed though.

[LarryMurphySpecial]

i just read topic didnt see if anyone posted this yet...but it has already been presented on sport science. Football by alot.

But... but... but Datsyerberger and TommylikeWingy had already made up statistics and facts, and Eva played both of them in highschool! Take that scientific s*** out of here, half of these fans have watched every Wing's game the past 5 years, which we all know is better than actually playing a sport.

[Hockeytown0001]

[eva unit zero]

I agree here, again, as I point out a handful of posts above, the average football hit is going to be more solid and happen more frequently than open ice hockey hits. The numbers and tool above are useful for comparing best case scenario hits, however. It's mostly to counter the arguments that the hardest (reasonably clean) hockey hits aren't as hard as the hardest (reasonably clean) football hits based on 'but football players are much larger!'. That's simply a poor understanding of the physics involved.

One thing worth noting is if you watch a highlight reel of the hardest 'clean' hits in the NHL vs hardest 'clean' hits in the NFL, a lot more of the NFL guys get up and walk away from it. NHL guys subjected to a solid open ice hit usually have their day (week/month/season) wrecked.

More solid? Most hits in football are a guy blocking off and then grabbing the ball carrier while leading with a bit of force. Far weaker than the kind of hits we've been talking about.

[Hockeytown0001]

I wouldn't say that those are the kind of hits mostly found in football.

[Hockeytown0001]

Any major NFL hits yesterday?

[Doc Holliday]

Any major NFL hits yesterday?

Miami U's QB got leveled on Saturday.

Edited by Doc Holliday, 01 November 2010 - 10:33 AM.

[Hockeytown0001]

I still think this is easily one of the hardest hits I've ever seen, regardless of sport.

[55fan]

Any major NFL hits yesterday?

Favre got knocked out of the game. He had to get 8 or 10 (depending on whether you listen to him or Childress) stitches in his chin. Of course, he's a 41-year-old playing with 2 broken bones in his foot/ankle, so I'm not going to hold being shaken up against him.

[henrik40]

I can't remember who it was that said "what's a 300 lb. lineman going to do? Push me, that's it". No, he would kick your ass. Lineman (offensive and defensive) have the highest rate of concussions because the majority of the time, they are open fist punching each other in the head. I'd love to see whoever said that take a shot from Jake Long. He'd knock you into next week. Now whether or not hockey hits are harder than football, who knows. There are huge hits in both, and I wouldn't want to get hit by either.

[Doc Holliday]

Favre got knocked out of the game. He had to get 8 or 10 (depending on whether you listen to him or Childress) stitches in his chin. Of course, he's a 41-year-old playing with 2 broken bones in his foot/ankle, so I'm not going to hold being shaken up against him.

Ah yes, the whole "I'm Favre I play injured all the time look how much of a warrior I am" schtick he puts on.

[Hockeytown0001]

He plays because he's an attention *****. I've gotten tired of his act, and dare I say so have most football fans, other than the ones of whatever team he decides to play for.