99 replies to this topic

[Aussie_Wing]

Correction: He has played all of 82 NHL games over four seasons, and he has scored all of 11 goals and 13 assists in that period. Two of those 11 goals came in his first game as a Panther, way back in '07-'08.

I very much disapprove of people who, despite having done no research whatsoever on the subject matter, make impassioned claims in discussions.

Yeah man, cause at 22, Matthias certainly has no upside and won't get any better from here on in. 4 points in 7 games, what a dud!

Ritola isn't going to ever be a high octane offensive player. He's an all around solid player that is tenacious to play against. Unfortunately for him, he blew his chance to crack the line up when he was injured (or sick - can't remember the dilemma) during pre-season. He never really had his shot due to an unfortunate chain of events.

This isn't about Leino who is only effective if he's putting up numbers. Ritola isn't that type of player. He's virtually a Filppula 2.0; someone who would help make that 3rd minus's not be so bad. He's strong on the puck and sees the ice well. I was excited to see how well he would have meshed with Cleary and Hudler because the kid has eyes on the back of his head and can hold on to the puck like Flip and Dats for to make a smart pass. Who knows, he 'could' be the missing element on that line. But we'll never know. One thing I do know, that line would be better defensively if he was centering it.

But you are right, Ritola is no Ovechkin or Crosby; he's a Filppula light.

Great post mate, just like your other posts in this thread.

He's locked up for 3 years at virtually league minimum, now that's a bargain. I've been saying he's a poor man's Flip for a while now, they really are similar players. Ritola has good speed, he's got great hands and playmaking abilities, and he's developed his frame which allows him to make a physical impact. He's got that Datsyuk like ability to strip opponents of the puck too. He'll never be a star, and he'll probably never exceed 40 points, but the guy is solid in every aspect and it's a real shame we didn't give him a real shot to stick in Detroit.

[achildr1]

Ok. Sometimes I'm literally shocked by how we get on LGW about certain players. Average, or less than average, 4th liners and 6th d-man get some major love around here.

Modano should have had a spot (at least before we got to see how disinterested he seems) over Ritola, period. His ring, style of play, and experiance made him a better option (even a better gamble, over Ritola's upside) for this years Cup run. This is what the Wings do and we all know it.

Personally, I don't and didn't care that we lost Ritola. Even if hew is V.Flip lite©, which I'm not sure many people would support that comparison, it's not like we have a shortage of those kind of players. In the system we got Joakim Andersson, Riley Sheahan, and Gustav Nyquist (three better than average two-way prospects, the first and last could play as early as next year). The second "tier" (which I would have included Ritola in) would include Corey Emmerton and possibly I.Flip, could play this year.

Ritola, at age 23, never had over 42 pts in GR, although he played less than 82 games in those years. He's straddling the line between prospect and depth player. And on the Wings, he should never play above the fourth line. Emmerton is essentially the same case.

This adds up to: Ritola wasn't special in any way, he could and will be easily replaced, and had no future with this team in any meaningful role. His window with the Wings was this year, a year in which Modano (in theory) is more valuable and has more potential to affect a single Cup run. Next year he probably would have been shipped off anyway.

He'll stand to get a much better chance to succeed in TB.

Edited by achildr1, 01 November 2010 - 09:13 AM.

[stevkrause]

I really hate this board sometimes... you need to break some eggs to make an omelet - we are 6-2-1 and off to a great start, but some posters here just want to look at the negatives... how horrible a life that must be to be such an eternal pessimist...

Would I have liked to keep Ritola and let him develop more? yes, but what needed to be done, was done. period.

Just root for him in TB and accept that Holland and co. made a tough decision that needed to be made.

[Pucks]

Correction: He has played all of 82 NHL games over four seasons, and he has scored all of 11 goals and 13 assists in that period. Two of those 11 goals came in his first game as a Panther, way back in '07-'08.

I very much disapprove of people who, despite having done no research whatsoever on the subject matter, make impassioned claims in discussions.

Wow bro maybe you should use your head before you post again. Lets compare your so called lemon Shawn Matthias with I don't know how about Abdelkader?

Last year in the NHL

Shawn Matthias
Panthers
55 7 9 16 -3 22yrs old

Justin Abdelkader
Red Wings
50 3 3 6 -11 23yrs old

So by your brilliant deduction Abdelkader would also be a Lemon? Neither player has even played a full 82 game season yet.



* Sorry everyone this is off topic but you can blame crysomuch for jumping on the OMGZORZ he doesn't play for the Wings anymore so he must SUCKZOR train!

Edited by Pucks, 01 November 2010 - 10:53 AM.

[Konnan511]

3 pages on some 4th liner how could possible make the jump to the third line? So much man crash in this thread.

It's just like the Quincey thing all over again. They are gone because they couldn't beat out our scrubs. Why would you even second guess Ken Holland and Babcock on this one?

[Crymson]

Aussie, you're really off your rocker on this issue. Just look at your post: "RITOLA NOW HAS ONE GOAL AND ONE ASSIST WITH THE LIGHTNING!!!!!!! HOLLAND, YOU'RE A MORON FOR PICKING MODANO OVER THIS GUY!!!!" Do you see anything wrong with that?

Wow bro maybe you should use your head before you post again. Lets compare your so called lemon Shawn Matthias with I don't know how about Abdelkader?

Last year in the NHL

Shawn Matthias
Panthers
55 7 9 16 -3 22yrs old

Justin Abdelkader
Red Wings
50 3 3 6 -11 23yrs old

So by your brilliant deduction Abdelkader would also be a Lemon? Neither player has even played a full 82 game season yet.

Ah, yes. Was Abdelkader meant to be a scorer? Nope. He was projected to be a grinder who would chip in some goals. This fits with his stats last year: he had 152 hits, good for 66th in the league, in only 50 games. Matthias was projected to be a legitimate scoring power forward. His scoring stats were hardly leagues above those of Abdelkader, and he racked up only 57 hits.

My point is that many threw a fit when he scored his first two goals, too; that was three seasons ago, he hasn't shown any significant development since, and he'd sure as hell not have been playing on the Wings` roster in these last three seasons.

I maintain that your description of Matthias as a "6'3, blazing-fast power forward who is scoring goals for his team as we speak" is hyperbole.

* Sorry everyone this is off topic but you can blame crysomuch for jumping on the OMGZORZ he doesn't play for the Wings anymore so he must SUCKZOR train!

I sense some anger. What's wrong?

Edited by Crymson, 01 November 2010 - 11:57 AM.

[The Secret]

What makes you think Miller has less upside than Ritola?

What evidence makes you think Ritola is a better pker/4th line than Miller?

Miller has been floating around the NHL for the last 5 years for 3 different teams and Ritola hasn't even been given a fair shake as far as I see. Sometimes you have to roll the dice and gamble a bit, in this instance I would have done it by keeping Ritola and cutting Miller loose and I would done so with the confidence that at the very least Ritola would have been an equal replacement and could be more... It would have been a very safe bet and could produce some surprising rewards.

[Crymson]

Miller has been floating around the NHL for the last 5 years for 3 different teams and Ritola hasn't even been given a fair shake as far as I see. Sometimes you have to roll the dice and gamble a bit, in this instance I would have done it by keeping Ritola and cutting Miller loose and I would done so with the confidence that at the very least Ritola would have been an equal replacement and could be more... It would have been a very safe bet and could produce some surprising rewards.

And people are acting as if this matters with this 4th-liner are vital. It makes me laugh to see the outright perfectionism that so many years of success and competent GMing have made of so many people on these boards. Holland may make mistakes, sure; but he makes less of them than any other GM in the league, and that still doesn't stop a lot of people here from self-righteously crying bloody murder every time a minor one is made. And in this instance, there's no way at this stage telling if keeping Ritola would have been the better bet. Further, we know nothing of the factors that went on behind the scenes.

Edited by Crymson, 01 November 2010 - 12:14 PM.

[Carman]

Miller has been floating around the NHL for the last 5 years for 3 different teams and Ritola hasn't even been given a fair shake as far as I see. Sometimes you have to roll the dice and gamble a bit, in this instance I would have done it by keeping Ritola and cutting Miller loose and I would done so with the confidence that at the very least Ritola would have been an equal replacement and could be more... It would have been a very safe bet and could produce some surprising rewards.

But Miller has proven at the very least he's been a contributer on a Stanley Cup contending team. And he outworked Ritola in training camp.

Ritola would have an incredibly hard time trying to secure a scoring future for the Red Wings, he was battling for a pk role and Miller was better. Ritola might turn out to be a better scorer, but I really doubt he will be a better pker/4th liner this year.

It's the salary cap era, you are going to lose decent players, especially when the Wings are as deep as they are.

I just don't see how Ritola's offensive upside is more important than Miller's defensive upside that's he already proven many times at the NHL level.
Not to mention Miller had comparable numbers to Ritola in the AHL, I don't get why you think Ritola has a higher upside offensively than Miller anyways.

[stevkrause]

But Miller has proven at the very least he's been a contributer on a Stanley Cup contending team. And he outworked Ritola in training camp.

Ritola would have an incredibly hard time trying to secure a scoring future for the Red Wings, he was battling for a pk role and Miller was better. Ritola might turn out to be a better scorer, but I really doubt he will be a better pker/4th liner this year.

It's the salary cap era, you are going to lose decent players, especially when the Wings are as deep as they are.

I just don't see how Ritola's offensive upside is more important than Miller's defensive upside that's he already proven many times at the NHL level.
Not to mention Miller had comparable numbers to Ritola in the AHL, I don't get why you think Ritola has a higher upside offensively than Miller anyways.

ex-freaking-actly!

[The Secret]

I to the above 3 posters... I just have a different opinion. I didn't slam Holland for this, I didn't say I hated Miller and I sure didn't say that keeping Ritola was the answer to all our problems. Whats wrong with wanting to see a home grown kid get a chance? Its like you can even have a different view on this board with out getting the gears for one thing or another. I just would have liked to see what he could have done and it would have had to come at someone's expense...that someone for me would have been Miller. Its my opinion, I'm not asking you to like it.

[Pucks]

Aussie, you're really off your rocker on this issue. Just look at your post: "RITOLA NOW HAS ONE GOAL AND ONE ASSIST WITH THE LIGHTNING!!!!!!! HOLLAND, YOU'RE A MORON FOR PICKING MODANO OVER THIS GUY!!!!" Do you see anything wrong with that?



Ah, yes. Was Abdelkader meant to be a scorer? Nope. He was projected to be a grinder who would chip in some goals. This fits with his stats last year: he had 152 hits, good for 66th in the league, in only 50 games. Matthias was projected to be a legitimate scoring power forward. His scoring stats were hardly leagues above those of Abdelkader, and he racked up only 57 hits.

He was taken in the second round, actually later in the draft then Abdelkader, obviously not the same one. He was not supposed to be some big scorer, if that's what your maintaining?

My point is that many threw a fit when he scored his first two goals, too; that was three seasons ago, he hasn't shown any significant development since, and he'd sure as hell not have been playing on the Wings` roster in these last three seasons.

Abdelkader and Helm played on the Wings last year so I'd say Matthias would have been above them on the centers depth list. I'd say right behind Fil.

I maintain that your description of Matthias as a "6'3, blazing-fast power forward who is scoring goals for his team as we speak" is hyperbole.

How is it hyperbole? It's facts. Throw out the power forward bit if you like?


I sense some anger. What's wrong?

Having to state the obvious over and over get's old.

Sorry man but your posts just continue to fail. I can't even figure out what your trying to argue? You said Shawn Matthias is a lemon? Your just flat out wrong, he's a fine young player learning his way in this league. He's currently centering the 2nd line on his team. What you or anyone think he was supposed to be matters not. I'm not discussing that trade or the Ritola waiver, I'm saying the guy is NOT A LEMON

Edited by Pucks, 01 November 2010 - 03:07 PM.

[titanium2]

Hahahahahaha... Lemon.

[Doc Holliday]

Sorry man but your posts just continue to fail. I can't even figure out what your trying to argue? You said Shawn Matthias is a lemon? Your just flat out wrong, he's a fine young player learning his way in this league. He's currently centering the 2nd line on his team. What you or anyone think he was supposed to be matters not. I'm not discussing that trade or the Ritola waiver, I'm saying the guy is NOT A LEMON

He is a lemon.

Look at him play, and look at his stats. Nothing about him is "good".

[Pucks]

He is a lemon.

Look at him play, and look at his stats. Nothing about him is "good".

More pearls of wisdom from Doc...lmao! How's that discussion going we had last year regarding the goalies? You were wrong then, like usual. You ran off to HFboards for a while to escape. Now your back, good luck.

Edited by Pucks, 01 November 2010 - 05:21 PM.

[Doc Holliday]

More pearls of wisdom from Doc...lmao! How's that discussion going we had last year regarding the goalies? You were wrong then, like usual. You ran off to HFboards for a while to escape. Now your back, good luck.

Is this a joke?

I haven't left at all. Your attention to me is cute, though.

[Pucks]

Is this a joke?

I haven't left at all. Your attention to me is cute, though.

My attention to you? My only attention was to your moronic Osgood posts. You got so unraveled you had to leave. That was cute. I love when people get things wrong they never bother to come back and say, "Hey I was wrong or whatever", they just jump on the wrong side of the next debate...classic.

[Doc Holliday]

My attention to you? My only attention was to your moronic Osgood posts. You got so unraveled you had to leave. That was cute. I love when people get things wrong they never bother to come back and say, "Hey I was wrong or whatever", they just jump on the wrong side of the next debate...classic.

Can I ask where you get the idea I ran off?

[Pucks]

Can I ask where you get the idea I ran off?

You going to admit you were way off on the Osgood debate?

[Doc Holliday]

You going to admit you were way off on the Osgood debate?

I asked you a question.

You made the claim I ran away to HF and suddenly now I'm back, despite being active here during the playoffs and offseason, not to mention the entirety of the regular season.

And I don't even remember what we were arguing about last season.