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Hudler + Helm


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#1 egroen

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 10:14 PM

I think these two are a match made in heaven and compliment each other extremely well.

Helm has speed, tenacity, great puck-moving, defense and the ability to make things happen. What he lacks are finishing skills, offensive positioning and vision.

Hudler has vision, finishing and passing skills and the ability to find open ice, lacking speed and grit.

Right now Helm is creating all sorts of chances, but on the 4th line, neither he nor his linemates are able to do much with it.

Hudler is a proven offensive player but is clearly not meshing well with Modano (Lang .50) and Cleary (who has the effort but is never open and looks a little like a chicken with his head cut off). Hudler did, however, find a spark playing with Helm (and washed up McCarty of all people) playing on the 4th line in the 08 playoffs - outscoring everyone but Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Franzen - with far less minutes.

Hudler can actually make something of the chances Helm creates (unlike Helm's current linemates), and can actually utilize his speed with a perfect pass for a no-brainer goal (which really for Helm is the only goal he is capable of).

So how does it happen? I would prefer a 3rd line of Helm/Hudler/Cleary in all honesty. Babcock should have the balls to put Modano on the 4th line, IMO, but I'm curious as to other thoughts.

The other player who has proven chemistry with Hudler is Filpulla, for similar reasons, but I am not for messing with the 2nd line.

Edited by egroen, 02 November 2010 - 10:21 PM.

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#2 Sprsquirt7

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 10:21 PM

Modano can't be put on the fourth line. The fourth line is typically and most effectively used as energy and defensive responsibility. While i agree with your assessment of helm and hudler possibly meshing well, that fourth line doesn't need to be messed with. They aren't there to have 30 goal seasons, they are doing their job extremely well and I don't see a point in messing with the lines beyond the third line. When you have 3/4 of your lines clicking and playing very good hockey, you wait it out with minimal adjustments, which it seems is the route babcock will be going.

#3 egroen

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 10:26 PM

Modano can't be put on the fourth line. The fourth line is typically and most effectively used as energy and defensive responsibility. While i agree with your assessment of helm and hudler possibly meshing well, that fourth line doesn't need to be messed with. They aren't there to have 30 goal seasons, they are doing their job extremely well and I don't see a point in messing with the lines beyond the third line. When you have 3/4 of your lines clicking and playing very good hockey, you wait it out with minimal adjustments, which it seems is the route babcock will be going.

I actually agree, and admit I am jumping the gun a bit prematurely. 3 out 4 lines performing well is about all you can ask for realistically, but if this continues I'm sure many of us would like to see some juggling of the bottom lines.

Fact is, these guys need to start producing like they are paid to do. But I'm fine with giving it more time to mesh - just thinking of a plan B.
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#4 Konnan511

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 10:45 PM

That third line sure is eating a lot of cap doing absolutely nothing.
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#5 VM1138

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 10:58 PM

Just throwing a radical mixup out there, but what about:

Hudler-Helm-Modano (yes, I know, but maybe throwing Modano on a wing will mix things up a bit, and like people said, he can't go down to the fourth)

Miller-Abdelkader-Cleary? That way the fourth maintains energy.

It's not an ideal situation but it might jump start the 3rd line so we can put Hudler-Modano-Cleary back together after a few games. And we know Miller-Helm-Abdelkader will continue to work because it always has, even if they're separated for a while.

EDIT: WOw, I completely forgot about Eaves, my mistake!

Edited by VM1138, 03 November 2010 - 09:54 AM.

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#6 egroen

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 11:05 PM

I wouldn't be against a radical mixup of these bottom lines at some point, because eventually at least one of the top 2 lines are going to hit a snag, and depth scoring will be very important - which the Wings are definitely not getting right now.
Red Kelly #4 and Larry Aurie #6 belong in the rafters!!!

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#7 titanium2

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 11:12 PM

If Hudler-Helm-Maltby/McCarty can provide a solid 8-9 minutes then shouldn't Hudler-Helm-Miller be able to do the same??? Maybe even better?

That way Cleary-Modano-Eaves can play good defense, skate north-south, shoot first, look for rebounds and ask questions later.

#8 shoe

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 11:51 PM

If Hudler-Helm-Maltby/McCarty can provide a solid 8-9 minutes then shouldn't Hudler-Helm-Miller be able to do the same??? Maybe even better?

That way Cleary-Modano-Eaves can play good defense, skate north-south, shoot first, look for rebounds and ask questions later.


Where are you putting Abdelkader if those are your 3rd n 4th lines?







#9 titanium2

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 12:01 AM

Where are you putting Abdelkader if those are your 3rd n 4th lines?





Oh yeah. My baddd. Miller or Abdelkader.

#10 ShanahanMan

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 12:22 AM

I support this post. Plus, it's worked wonders for me in NHL 11 :cool:


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#11 Theophany

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 02:47 AM

Just throwing a radical mixup out there, but what about:

Hudler-Helm-Modano (yes, I know, but maybe throwing Modano on a wing will mix things up a bit, and like people said, he can't go down to the fourth)

Miller-Abdelkader-Cleary? That way the fourth maintains energy.

It's not an ideal situation but it might jump start the 3rd line so we can put Hudler-Modano-Cleary back together after a few games. And we know Miller-Helm-Abdelkader will continue to work because it always has, even if they're separated for a while.

Why would you put the guy that's playing the best on the current third line on the fourth, where he's going to get less minutes?

That's essentially kicking the guy in the nuts for being a good hockey player.

The lines are fine as they are. We're winning games. When we start losing, then fix 'em.

#12 VM1138

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 09:56 AM

Why would you put the guy that's playing the best on the current third line on the fourth, where he's going to get less minutes?

That's essentially kicking the guy in the nuts for being a good hockey player.

The lines are fine as they are. We're winning games. When we start losing, then fix 'em.



The reason being that Cleary can perform on any line. It's not much of a demotion because he'll probably be able to do more damage on the 4th line. Plus, Cleary-Helm-Modano isn't as impressive as Hudler-Helm-Modano, style-wise.

Since I forgot Eaves, I can't figure out who sits. The obvious choice is Modano but he won't ever be sat.
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#13 Travis

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 10:00 AM

Helm - Modano - Hulder and Cleary - Abdelkader - Eaves ?

Probably too much juggling, eh?

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#14 newfy

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 10:05 AM

I think a 4th line of Hudler Helm Eaves with a third line of Abby modano Cleary could work. Its only switching 2 people but the third line did look much better with Abbys forecheck going out there

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#15 Konnan511

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 10:14 AM

The third line isn't working with two floaters. A line can get away with one floater, ZDH (Homer), BFF (Franzen)
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#16 dirtydangles

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 11:22 AM

First off:

If we want to keep Hudler and Modano out there:

Hudler-Helm-Modano
Cleary-Abdelkader-Eaves
Sit: Miller

Hudler-Modano-Eaves
Abdelkader-Helm-Cleary
Sit: Miller

If Modano still isn't doing anything and Hudler isn't producing:

Hudler-Helm-Cleary
Miller-Abdelkader-Eaves
Sit: Modano

I don't see babs putting Modano or Hudler on the forth line, it just won't happen. I think the first one I have listed is quite good.

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#17 Carman

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 12:26 PM

Hudler isn't an NHL caliber player anymore. I can't wait to shift him off for a sixth round pick. He's overpaid, and unmotivated. He's just going to drag everyone down that plays around him. Keep him in the pressbox unless we have a rash of injuries.

#18 T.Low

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 12:44 PM

The OP is interesting.

First off, I hesitate to break up Huds, Modano, and Cleary yet.

They have had some great chances but they seem to be just a half step off in timing. I still have faith that it will come together.

That being said; Hudler is the weak link, not Mike Modano. Hudler totally looks like a guy who's had it a lot easier while making almost 3 times the money (factoring salary w/out taxation). Huge money, star status, less effort, much less of a price to pay. He may never return to the player he was before he left. 70 pts? The Wings are going to be lucky to get 40 pts out of him this year.

I do see the merit of putting Helm up to center Mike and Jiri; he will do the hard, dirty work, and possibly be the playmaker when Mike and Jiri find the open spots on the ice for easy one timers. But that does indeed penalize Cleary. But Dan Cleary is a role player and no doubt will take one for the team when asked or assigned.

I still have faith in Modano; but my faith in Hudler is on lifesupport.

#19 newfy

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 12:57 PM

The OP is interesting.

First off, I hesitate to break up Huds, Modano, and Cleary yet.

They have had some great chances but they seem to be just a half step off in timing. I still have faith that it will come together.

That being said; Hudler is the weak link, not Mike Modano. Hudler totally looks like a guy who's had it a lot easier while making almost 3 times the money (factoring salary w/out taxation). Huge money, star status, less effort, much less of a price to pay. He may never return to the player he was before he left. 70 pts? The Wings are going to be lucky to get 40 pts out of him this year.

I do see the merit of putting Helm up to center Mike and Jiri; he will do the hard, dirty work, and possibly be the playmaker when Mike and Jiri find the open spots on the ice for easy one timers. But that does indeed penalize Cleary. But Dan Cleary is a role player and no doubt will take one for the team when asked or assigned.

I still have faith in Modano; but my faith in Hudler is on lifesupport.

Hudler to me is done as well. If he isn't playing on a stacked powerplay he seems useless 5 on 5. We should trade him while he still has some value and seems to possibly still be a 50 point guy

RIP BOB PROBERT #24


#20 ben_usmc

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 01:27 PM

we may not be able to drop Modano to the 3rd line, but I'd bet he'd fit in real well in the press box
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