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Get ready folks, hitting is about to exit our game


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#21 Konnan511

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 01:15 AM

If he didn't elbow him in the face, we wouldn't be having a discussion. Doesn't matter if it's north and south, it's still an elbow to the face.
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#22 jollymania

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 01:39 AM

Those are some s***ty angles of the hit in that video.

i made a better one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m55RtBUyKcA
"I assure you the hits along the boards he(Aaron Downey) constantly threw SEVERAL TIMES EVERY SHIFT were far more damaging hits that what Kronwall throws."
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#23 T.Low

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 01:40 AM

Man are th fans of the NHL becoming softened up as well or what?

Thornton steps outta the box skates up the to the red line and hits him, not east west. And his elbow was tucked in.

It is a bad angle but if you look, the penalty boxes are behind the red line and thornton hits him at the red line so it is not east west.

This is a textbook hit, it was a suicide pass and unfortunate for perron because he didnt know thornton was coming out of the box but what does big joe do? Let him skate by because the guy has his head down? If thats what the NHL has come to then its a bulls*** league and turning into the god damned NBA




Summed up quite nicely.

I dislike Thornton as much as the next guy, but it was a clean hit. "Head on a swivel" is a lost phrase in modern day hockey. The announcer says the puck was not on Perron: well only cause the he missed it. Big Joe timed it perfectly, the puck had already been there but Perron misses the puck and gets caught by Big Joe.

The hit wasn't blind: the hittee (Perron) was blind because he had his head down instead of on a swivel. That's not Joe's fault. Thats a fundamental mistake by Perron. Watch where the f*** you're going cause it's a nasty game out there and people want to take your head off.

Also, I didn't hear any goalie stick whacking away on the ice warning of the last few seconds of the penalty so his team knows there is a man coming out of the box (FWIW)


This is what is going to be very difficult for the NHL: There is a difference in a hit to the head, and a hit that invloves the head. One is much more avoidable than the other. I don't know how the NHL is going to be successful in this quest to rid the game of hits to the head. It's a great intent, but the reality is not so clear.

There is also a major difference in leading with the elbow vs leading with the shoulder and following thru with the elbow (actually, it's following thru with the forearm, but therefore the elbow does come up too, of course): the ladder being legal and clean. Joe lead with the shoulder and followed thru with the forearm. Clean.

I can totally understand the NHL wanting and needing to protect their assetts (read million dollar players)by being concerned about hits to the head, but it is going to be difficult to get it right and accurate. And they still have a problem calling routine penalites correctly during a game; good luck with this new headshot issue.

The much more frequent high speed collisions are an unforeseen byproduct of the lack of clutching and grabbing and waterskiing (hooking a guy for a ride all the way down the ice).

I totally understand the OP's thread title. It's a legitimate concern.

Edited by T.Low, 05 November 2010 - 01:47 AM.


#24 jollymania

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 01:40 AM

If he didn't elbow him in the face, we wouldn't be having a discussion. Doesn't matter if it's north and south, it's still an elbow to the face.

watch the new vid i posted, no elbow what so ever, shoulder to chest/jaw
"I assure you the hits along the boards he(Aaron Downey) constantly threw SEVERAL TIMES EVERY SHIFT were far more damaging hits that what Kronwall throws."
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#25 titanium2

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 01:45 AM

I'm sure the rules are a serious work in progress. Let's just relax for the mean time. It's a tough call but it's not going to be like this forever.

#26 jollymania

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 01:58 AM


there was also a mediocre call on doughty for.... charging?
"I assure you the hits along the boards he(Aaron Downey) constantly threw SEVERAL TIMES EVERY SHIFT were far more damaging hits that what Kronwall throws."
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#27 Crymson

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 02:03 AM

Another inatallation of "hitting is mean and yucky" brought to you by Gary Bettman and all the other assholes that are ru(i)nning the league.


I think we should have two forward lines composed of nothing but enforcers. Would that make you happy?

#28 jollymania

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 02:21 AM

I think we should have two forward lines composed of nothing but enforcers. Would that make you happy?

its not about having goons, its about honest hockey, this hit is an honest hockey hit
"I assure you the hits along the boards he(Aaron Downey) constantly threw SEVERAL TIMES EVERY SHIFT were far more damaging hits that what Kronwall throws."
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#29 Buppy

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 03:29 AM

Are we really going to have one of these threads for every penalized hit this season?

Just to save time, here's the Reader's Digest quotable quotes:
"End of hockey as we know it"
"Blindside headshot, what's the problem?"
"Clean hit, should have kept his head up"
"Clear elbow, 2 games"
"Soandso is dirty"
"Players today have no respect"
"Get rid of the instigator rule, problem solved"

There, that pretty much sums up the 200 threads we'll have on this subject throughout the season.

It's a new rule, there's going to be a period of adjustment for the refs, the players, and the fans. Deal with it.

#30 Shoreline

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 03:39 AM

I feel bad for Perron because he doesn't see it coming but Jesus Christ he has the puck come to him and he's moving forward. Of course it's af****** blind side hit because PERRON ISf****** LOOKING BACKWARDS AT THE PASSER while moving forward. This is an utterly stupid call, Thornton's elbows are not his shoulders, which is what actually makes contact, he follows through with his elbow coming upward after the hit (last time I checked following through with your elbow moving upward doesn't constitute an elbow when the elbow doesn't even make contact -- the elbow moving up is merely an affect of balancing one's self from the jolt of hitting someone with your shoulder), and yes, this is marginalizing clean hits just because a guy gets hurt. Unbelievable.

Edit: I also have a feeling of deja vu because I remember off the top of my head Jiri Hudler being hit many times looking the wrong way.

Edited by Shoreline, 05 November 2010 - 03:47 AM.


#31 Guest_screwdahawks (Guest)

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 07:00 AM

Yup, just like Getzlaf, Perry, Iginla, and Cindy.


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#32 Shady Ultima

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 07:03 AM

Tough call. He definitely hit the head with his elbow on the follow through. Because Perron was looking backwards, Thornton hit him from the side, and it was absolutely blind-sided.

The other thing I see is that Thornton is a HUGE guy. It looks more like an elbow because he's so big.

Not sure what I'd say. I'd say, at the speed of the game, it definitely looks like a head shot, and since Big Joe is known for being a dirty player when he's losing, I can see why it was a penalty. I'm not sure if it's suspension worthy or not though.

#33 Guest_screwdahawks (Guest)

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 07:09 AM

I feel bad for Perron because he doesn't see it coming but Jesus Christ he has the puck come to him and he's moving forward. Of course it's af****** blind side hit because PERRON ISf****** LOOKING BACKWARDS AT THE PASSER while moving forward. This is an utterly stupid call, Thornton's elbows are not his shoulders, which is what actually makes contact, he follows through with his elbow coming upward after the hit (last time I checked following through with your elbow moving upward doesn't constitute an elbow when the elbow doesn't even make contact -- the elbow moving up is merely an affect of balancing one's self from the jolt of hitting someone with your shoulder), and yes, this is marginalizing clean hits just because a guy gets hurt. Unbelievable.

Edit: I also have a feeling of deja vu because I remember off the top of my head Jiri Hudler being hit many times looking the wrong way.


I don't think it's a stupid call. A shoulder pad to the head is a play that is meant to hurt a player and it needs to stop. I will :clap: if he gets suspended as he should be. And I would feel the same if it was one of our players doing the hit.

#34 Buppy

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 07:26 AM

I feel bad for Perron because he doesn't see it coming but Jesus Christ he has the puck come to him and he's moving forward. Of course it's af****** blind side hit because PERRON ISf****** LOOKING BACKWARDS AT THE PASSER while moving forward. This is an utterly stupid call, ...

That just highlights why they shouldn't have included the 'blindside' caveat in the rule. The rule says "Lateral, back-pressure, or blindside..." without any real clear definition of what that means. Most fans seem to think blindside is just a synonym for lateral, but I don't think that's what the NHL means. (I'm not sure that the NHL even knows for sure what they mean.)

Most of the time someone skating in open ice is going to be hunched over to some degree, so hitting them in the head is almost impossible without getting in front of them first. Every one of these calls is going to be somewhat controversial just because of that.

It should have just been a penalty for initial/principal contact to the head, regardless of direction. Still somewhat subjective, but less so than it is now without the added subjectivity of whether it's blindside or not. These are professional hockey players, some of the best and most agile skaters in the world. They could avoid headshots 9 times out of 10 if they really wanted to. Seems a lot of players are just more concerned with inflicting maximum damage.

[edit] Also, it doesn't need to be an elbow to be a headshot. No idea where people got that idea.

Edited by Buppy, 05 November 2010 - 07:30 AM.


#35 toby91_ca

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 07:54 AM

I don't think it's an elbow, but I also don't think that matters. I was clearly a headshot and it was clearly an east to west hit. Not sure how people are seeing it as North/South.

I think the rule is going to cause wrong calls being made by officials, but let's be honest, we've have super slow mo video here and we're still arguing about it. All the officials have is real time, full speed and not necessarily the best angle.

But when it comes down to it, maybe it just causes bad calls, some growing pains, but I doubt it will take hitting out of the game....unless you start seeing guys get suspended when they really shouldn't.

In this case, I think he should be suspended. This isn't a matter of being tough, we're talking about guys heads here. And it's not a matter of potentially ending someone's career, it's much worse than that, the players quality of life is on the line.

If the player has his head down (yes, Perron did), that's his own fault, but in this case, Thornton also came from the side, which is the no no now, which I agree with.

#36 Donaldjr2448

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 08:26 AM

When I watched the Game live, I thought Thornton left his feet to make the hit, but after Jolly has posted these angle shots, I see that Big Joe simply was trying to get out of the way! Perron had his head down and never saw it coming! I guess the hits to the head are gonna be like the high sticking, eventhough you didn't mean to hit the head you still will receive the penalty for it!

I'm curious to see if Perron was embellishing the hit like Downie's hit in the LA game? Thats what I mean by guys tumbling to the ice and rolling around like they were hit by the zamboni! I think if a player embellishes the hit, they should receive an unsportsmen call!

Right after the Thornton hit Perron, David Backes was hit by Dany Heatly next to the boards. Heatly let up on the play as he was coming into contact with Backes, but Backes dove into the boards and of course fell to the ice like a sack of potatoes! Heats then was assessed a 2 minute boarding penalty! This is exactly what I'm concerned about is these guys embellishing these hits because they know the refs are looking for them, so they fake injury!

I wish the NHL would notice the guys faking injury are the ones ruining the game, not hits like Thornton, Doughty, and Heats!

#37 p_diddy_datsyuk_13

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 08:30 AM

Just because he managed to get in front doesn't mean he didn't come from the blind side. This is an east west hit from the blindside and just coming out of the penalty box to boot, Perron had no way of seeing him coming. this just echoes the Richards hit on David Booth from last year... sure he hit the front side, but the recipient had no way to see him coming from the BLIND SIDE. Richards on Booth, same basic premise... hits him in the front but comes from the side. HERE

#38 JoshuaW92

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 08:34 AM

First of all, I can see why the NHL called a penalty on Thornton. He hit Perron in the head. However, it was not east-west or a blind side hit. Perron should have had his head up, but Thornton (along with every other player in the league) needs to get better at targeting the shoulder and not the head.

Secondly, why are hockey players turning into such *******? I mean every hit I see on replay now they all just lay on the ice looking like they got hit by a truck.

#39 jollymania

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 09:25 AM

First of all, I can see why the NHL called a penalty on Thornton. He hit Perron in the head. However, it was not east-west or a blind side hit. Perron should have had his head up, but Thornton (along with every other player in the league) needs to get better at targeting the shoulder and not the head.

Secondly, why are hockey players turning into such *******? I mean every hit I see on replay now they all just lay on the ice looking like they got hit by a truck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq8RWxApao8

Konroyd made it look pretty easy to get up after a hit twice as hard and malicious as this one
"I assure you the hits along the boards he(Aaron Downey) constantly threw SEVERAL TIMES EVERY SHIFT were far more damaging hits that what Kronwall throws."
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#40 Donaldjr2448

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 09:35 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq8RWxApao8

Konroyd made it look pretty easy to get up after a hit twice as hard and malicious as this one

Yep!!! The good ole days!! The only thing I didn't like about the hit was that Keane left his feet! But other than that, its awesome!! I miss those days!!





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