82 replies to this topic

[Buppy]

He's been doing that stuff all season; the problem as far as production he was having is that nobody on the Huds/Modo/Clears line could get the puck in the net while it was together. All three seem to be doing much better since it has been split up, so it may very well have been a chemistry issue.

So the problem as far as production was that no one was producing? How profound.

As for the topic, Flip is a better player overall no question, but Hudler has more offensive talent. Nothing to debate really.

[Crymson]

Filppula has never played on a line without at least one player who outperformed him. Hudler has almost always been the best player on his line.

This season is Filppula's real breakout offensively, plus he started the season playing with Franzen and a rejuvenated Bertuzzi. Hudler opened the season playing on a line with linemates he never had the opportunity to play with before in Modano and Cleary. Mo and Clears were just as cold as Huds was at the start of the year, because none of the three played a full preseason due to injuries.

So it's not really a fair comparison at this point to take a guy who started out hot and compare him to a guy who started out cold. But for those of you who haven't been paying attention, Filppula was on pace for 45 points coming into tonight. Putting Hudler on his line sure seems to have helped him and Franzen out of that slump they were in.

This fanaticism is getting tiring, Eva. You can admit for once that Hudler is not a god.

[Z and D for the C]

Filppula's most common line last season was Filppula/Zetterberg/Bertuzzi. Maybe he didn't play all year on that line, but he played on it more than any other.

As for Filppula's scoring pace being better than Hudler's;

I have stated before that it is too early to compare the two based on stats, especially given that Hudler is in a major scoring slump compared to his normal production while Filppula started the season hot with a hot Franzen and a rejuvenated Bertuzzi. And something of note? In the six games coming into tonight, Filppula had one goal and no assists. Hudler had no goals and one assist. Acting like Filppula's big numbers came from anything but a few hot games to start the year is deceptive.

As for the "it's not like when he plays in the top six he's always the best" that comment has no bearing. How about let's put Hudler in the top six for more than two games and find out what happens? He's been very effective in every one of the four or five games he's gotten to play in that role. So why not give him the chance?

Do you even remember last year? He played with Z and Bertuzzi for like 20 games to end the season. Before that it was a mix of Leino/Williams/Cleary/Bertuzzi/Miller/Ritola/Abdelkader. He was by far the best player with any combination, and his production showed that.

So you can disregard Hudler's cold streak but not Filppula's? How convenient for you.

[eva unit zero]

You mean the third line has actually been producing since Hudler was taken off? When Abdelkader was put in the line got goals and the same now with Bertuzzi. The odd man out is Hudler, sorry.

Hudler looked good tonight and made a great play to set up Flip's goal, but your beliefs that Hudler would be better than Gretzky if he was a few inches taller are ridiculous, as is your entire perspective on Hudler.

Abdelkader and Bertuzzi didn't make Modano or Cleary suddenly able to hit the net. Hudler set them up with plenty of opportunities earlier in the year that were completely blown, or Hudler was in great shooting position and Cleary or Modano either made a poor shot, didn't pass, or blew the pass. That kind of stuff has nothing to do with Hudler. Abdelkader has been great, and Bertuzzi has looked better than he has since Vancouver, but that doesn't mean Hudler's a terrible player. If Brett Hull gets in great scoring position every shift for 10 games, but he only scores 2 goals and both on individual efforts because his center is Shawn Burr, is that Hull's fault?

[Z and D for the C]

Abdelkader and Bertuzzi didn't make Modano or Cleary suddenly able to hit the net. Hudler set them up with plenty of opportunities earlier in the year that were completely blown, or Hudler was in great shooting position and Cleary or Modano either made a poor shot, didn't pass, or blew the pass. That kind of stuff has nothing to do with Hudler. Abdelkader has been great, and Bertuzzi has looked better than he has since Vancouver, but that doesn't mean Hudler's a terrible player. If Brett Hull gets in great scoring position every shift for 10 games, but he only scores 2 goals and both on individual efforts because his center is Shawn Burr, is that Hull's fault?

So when Hudler was put on the second line, the spark the second line had was all Hudler, yet when Hudler was taken off the third line, it was pure coincidence that that just happened to be when Clears and Modano started to be able to hit the net or pass the puck?

Give me directions to your dream world, Eva. It must be so fantastic to live in a place where you can reconstruct reality to fit your obsessions.

[eva unit zero]

Do you even remember last year? He played with Z and Bertuzzi for like 20 games to end the season. Before that it was a mix of Leino/Williams/Cleary/Bertuzzi/Miller/Ritola/Abdelkader. He was by far the best player with any combination, and his production showed that.

So you can disregard Hudler's cold streak but not Filppula's? How convenient for you.

I didn't disregard Hudler's cold streak. If you'll reread, I said that it's too early to use stats to judge a player's play for this season. I simply pointed out that Hudler and Flip had the same number of points in the past few games.

[titanium2]

Good lord why the hell do guys even waste your time like this?

[Shaman464]

Just looking at the skill set Hudler-Flip-Mule line makes a lot more sense for Hudler than Hudler-Modano-Cleary line. Cleary and Modano are both better finishers than playmakers meaning that Hudler had to take up a lot of play making slack, couple that with his size it makes him an obvious person to overload defensively and take out of the equation. With no one to make a play to either Modano or Cleary and as they both aren't great playmakers the line just couldn't click. So if I had any say (which I don't) I would keep the lines from tonight and see if tonights great play keeps up.

Edited by Shaman464, 12 November 2010 - 12:35 AM.

[LeftWinger]

I didn't disregard Hudler's cold streak. If you'll reread, I said that it's too early to use stats to judge a player's play for this season. I simply pointed out that Hudler and Flip had the same number of points in the past few games.

let me guess, first you voted for the war, then you voted against it... Piddler is done. He had one promising season (if that) and has fallen off since. He stunk up Russia, he is mediocre at best now. Hell, even Miroslav Frycer had a couple good seasons... The atrocity is that Miller and Eaves have to suffer for it. Piddler should be the one sitting, the second line was great without him, the third line was great (w/Abby) without him and the fourth line with Miller/Helm/Eaves was great without him. Sure he's a nice commodity to have, but as the 13th forward, NOT a top 12 let alone a top 6. IT is my hope that Holland is having Babcock showcase him on a top line to give him more minutes, so we can hopefully get a 5th round pick instead of a 6th round when he trades him. Guarantee, if the Wings make a deal between now and trade deadline, Piddler will be gone...

[eva unit zero]

So when Hudler was put on the second line, the spark the second line had was all Hudler, yet when Hudler was taken off the third line, it was pure coincidence that that just happened to be when Clears and Modano started to be able to hit the net or pass the puck?

Modano and Cleary were sending wild shots above and wide of the net earlier in the year. I can remember a couple plays that should have been sure goals but they put them over the net or wide of the net. Now Mo and Clears are not missing the net nearly as much. You tell me what happened.

The second line took off tonight when Hudler was swapped for Bert, scoring at even strength and the whole line was out for Mule's goal on the PP.

As for passing the puck, Modano's problem earlier in the year is that he WASN'T passing, not that he couldn't pass. He was trying to do too much on his own rather than using his teammates. Cleary was having serious puck movement issues in general, shot or pass, so he may well have had some minor wrist injury because he's looked better than he has in a long time the past few games.

Regardless, These are the lines I was asking for to start the year and they all played really well. So let's keep this moving and see where it goes.

let me guess, first you voted for the war, then you voted against it... Piddler is done. He had one promising season (if that) and has fallen off since. He stunk up Russia, he is mediocre at best now. Hell, even Miroslav Frycer had a couple good seasons... The atrocity is that Miller and Eaves have to suffer for it. Piddler should be the one sitting, the second line was great without him, the third line was great (w/Abby) without him and the fourth line with Miller/Helm/Eaves was great without him. Sure he's a nice commodity to have, but as the 13th forward, NOT a top 12 let alone a top 6. IT is my hope that Holland is having Babcock showcase him on a top line to give him more minutes, so we can hopefully get a 5th round pick instead of a 6th round when he trades him. Guarantee, if the Wings make a deal between now and trade deadline, Piddler will be gone...

You are wrong. It's not that Hudler's nice to have but not as a top 12/6...it's that LGW is a great forum to post on, just not when you're around.

[titanium2]

let me guess, first you voted for the war, then you voted against it... Piddler is done. He had one promising season (if that) and has fallen off since. He stunk up Russia, he is mediocre at best now. Hell, even Miroslav Frycer had a couple good seasons... The atrocity is that Miller and Eaves have to suffer for it. Piddler should be the one sitting, the second line was great without him, the third line was great (w/Abby) without him and the fourth line with Miller/Helm/Eaves was great without him. Sure he's a nice commodity to have, but as the 13th forward, NOT a top 12 let alone a top 6. IT is my hope that Holland is having Babcock showcase him on a top line to give him more minutes, so we can hopefully get a 5th round pick instead of a 6th round when he trades him. Guarantee, if the Wings make a deal between now and trade deadline, Piddler will be gone...

Damn man... Haha.

[LeftWinger]

[font="Book Antiqua"]You are wrong. It's not that Hudler's nice to have but not as a top 12/6...it's that LGW is a great forum to post on, just not when you're around.

Well, that another thing you have to thank Jiri for! You haven't noticed yet, but you are in the minority when it comes to Piddler, its not because of me, its because he sucks. If you would just take his wenis out of your mouth long enough you;d realize it...

edit: reality is, Miller and Eaves know and do their jobs better than him and at a fraction of the cost. He isn't as good as he used to be. He made one good play today, the rest of the night he got bounced around. If the Wings were playing anyone else but the Oilers, he wouldn't have been allowed to stand unmolested behind the net long enough to even make that one good play. Sit him, we wont miss him. This team is just as good, if not a little better without him...

Edited by LeftWinger, 12 November 2010 - 12:55 AM.

[titanium2]

you are in the minority when it comes to Piddler

Yeah he thrives off that. He likes to fancy himself as a martyr for who he thinks is underrated.

[Crymson]

Yeah he thrives off that. He likes to fancy himself as a martyr for who he thinks is underrated.

I think this is all a function of Eva's pathological unwillingness to back down on an discussion claim, even when that clearly is clearly ridiculous and riddled with holes.

That said, Filppula is capable of producing as much offense as Hudler AND is much better defensively AND is far faster. I don't see where much of an argument in Hudler's favor can be made.

Edited by Crymson, 12 November 2010 - 01:16 AM.

[McAwesome]

He's been doing that stuff all season; the problem as far as production he was having is that nobody on the Huds/Modo/Clears line could get the puck in the net while it was together. All three seem to be doing much better since it has been split up, so it may very well have been a chemistry issue.

He has spent a lot of time this season floating, giving up on scrums, getting knocked off the puck easily. Tonight I actually saw him more than once trying to dig the puck off the boards, and when he had the puck he was not looking rushed and it paid off on the first goal and almost paid off on the chance right before that. I have no illusions about changing your mind when it comes to Hudler, but you cannot honestly say that he was not looking like Robert Lang out there earlier in the season. Now that he is playing with more confidence, the goals will come. I agree that Hudler/Filppula/Franzen makes more sense in terms of the traditional roles Babcock likes to have on each line (shooter, playmaker, net presence) but until the last couple of games the BFF combo was arguably our best line and did not need to be tampered with.

[titanium2]

[eva unit zero]

He has spent a lot of time this season floating, giving up on scrums, getting knocked off the puck easily. Tonight I actually saw him more than once trying to dig the puck off the boards, and when he had the puck he was not looking rushed and it paid off on the first goal and almost paid off on the chance right before that. I have no illusions about changing your mind when it comes to Hudler, but you cannot honestly say that he was not looking like Robert Lang out there earlier in the season. Now that he is playing with more confidence, the goals will come. I agree that Hudler/Filppula/Franzen makes more sense in terms of the traditional roles Babcock likes to have on each line (shooter, playmaker, net presence) but until the last couple of games the BFF combo was arguably our best line and did not need to be tampered with.

The BFF combo was the team's best line for the first four games. That's it. Flip's lack of production over the past six games before tonight illustrates that. If it were the team's "best" line he'd have been producing. Bertuzzi and Franzen each had three in six coming in, for seven total between the three. I would say Flip's line has been the third best since Abdelkader came back. Tonight the Franzen/Flip/Huds line might have been the best line out, but the past few games Franzen, Flip, and Bert together have been performing worse than DZH or the Modano line.

[Nev]

That said, Filppula is capable of producing as much offense as Hudler AND is much better defensively AND is far faster. I don't see where much of an argument in Hudler's favor can be made.

Game. Set. Match.

[Aussie_Wing]

Filppula is the type of player a team needs to be competitive year in, year out. He's the ultimate role player that helps make this team elite. I think Filppula is one of, if not the most underrated player on this team.

Well said.

People obsess about Flip's point totals when there's no need to. He'll never be an amazingly consistent offensive point producer, I expect about 50 points to be the norm for him, but it's everything else he brings to the table. He's rock solid defensively, he's good on faceoffs, he can play PP and PK, he's getting stronger every year, and above all else, he is a big time playoff performer.

We're lucky to have this guy.

[truebladearmy]

This has been debated ad nauseum over the past 5-6 years, and I do realize that it is a relatively pointless debate being that we have both players. But are the die hard Hudler supporters ready to put this one to bed and eat crow?

Apples, and Oranges, man. Apples and Oranges.