Nev 1,085 Report post Posted February 16, 2012 These Leafs are not a Brian Burke calibre team. I disagree completely. This is entirely a Brian Burke calibre team - they've finished 12th, 15th, 10th and are currently 13th under his leadership. Was there a "Most over-rated GM" question on the players poll? 'Cos then the Leafs can claim a hat-trick of victories. 1 Hockeymom1960 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029 Report post Posted February 16, 2012 I disagree completely. This is entirely a Brian Burke calibre team - they've finished 12th, 15th, 10th and are currently 13th under his leadership. Was there a "Most over-rated GM" question on the players poll? 'Cos then the Leafs can claim a hat-trick of victories. What about the 2007 Anaheim Ducks? I'm not saying the guy is the best GM in the league, but at least give him credit where credit is due. When I look at the Maple Leafs, they don't look like a Brian Burke team. Nikolai Kulemin, Mikhail Grabovski, and Cody Franson aren't players I associate with a team run by Burke. Burke's teams are notoriously one of the more physically aggressive teams, which this team is not. Granted, Teemu Selanne and Andy McDonald weren't running around hitting everything in 2007, so not every player played an in-your-face style. In 2007, Burke's top 6 guys could also play a physical game, as well. Ryan Getzlaf, Corey Perry, and Dustin Penner all played a great all-around game. Their bottom 6 was filled with scrappy guys who could play a regular shift. Travis Moen, Brad May, Shawn Thornton, and Sammy Pahlsson hit everything in sight. George Parros wasn't dressed a lot, but he was inserted into the lineup when the coaching staff felt they could use him. To me, Burke isn't done remodeling this team. They lack the team toughness the Ducks from a few years ago had. Outside of Mike Brown, this Leafs team isn't awfully physically intimidating. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arag 308 Report post Posted February 16, 2012 Yes. Very loyal fans. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Esquire 324 Report post Posted February 16, 2012 What about the 2007 Anaheim Ducks? I'm not saying the guy is the best GM in the league, but at least give him credit where credit is due. Credit should be given to Pierre Gauthier, GM of the Ducks in 2000, who traded for their Conn Smythe winning goaltender. That's who deserves the credit. Anybody remember this quote? It doesn’t matter how many good players you give the guy if he can’t coach. Then my philosophy is real simple, which is build from the net out … if you don’t have goaltending you can’t win.” Source Funny how Burke gets all the praise for a team that already had so many pieces in place. Is it a coincidence that the one glaring criticism of the Leafs in his tenure is that he hasn't been close to finding a suitable goaltender himself? Burke touts a philosophy of "net out" building, yet has never built one himself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cusimano_brothers 1,655 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 Toronto Star. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
13dangledangle 958 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 Wow a horrible showing last nite for the leaves, I keep saying but Burke has to do what he can to get Nash and perhaps even Carter to the T Dot...send them whomever you must i.e- Kessel, Joffery, Grabovoski, Kadri, Kulimen, they dont have killer prospects but they have picks and Joe Colborne is going to be a damn fine player imo. I just think it's time this organization had some "star" power again because this roster has to play the perfect game to win and when they dont they get smashed more often then not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Hatethedrake! Report post Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) The Leafs always play well when there is no pressure on them. For years they are always one of the best teams when they are virtually eliminated from making the playoffs. Now that they are in the mix, they are choking big time. They are lucky that the teams behind them, like Washington, are also playing like crap. The Leafs lack leadership. When Burke took over, he went on ad nauseum how he would build his team to be the toughest to play against. While they have improved skill wise, they are one of the softest teams in the league. When they play Boston it's like the men against the boys. Even if the Leafs do make the playoffs they will be out in very short order. Edited February 19, 2012 by Hatethedrake! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nev 1,085 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 What about the 2007 Anaheim Ducks? I'm not saying the guy is the best GM in the league, but at least give him credit where credit is due. Oh sure, he deserves some credit for winning the cup - about as much as Stan Bowman deserves for winning the cup with Chicago and Ray Shero for the Penguins fielding an AHL team in the early 2000s. Yeah he hired Carlyle and traded for Pronger, but Niedermeyer would have signed for the ducks if me or you were the GM, and the core of that team were already in place when Burke took over. After that he made some appalling signings (Bertuzzu and Schneider), put them in Cap Hell and promptly bolted for Toronto. The less said about his time in Vancouver the better. Its only because of all his buddies in the Canadian media that he has this reputation as some kind of Hockey Genius. When I look at the Maple Leafs, they don't look like a Brian Burke team. Nikolai Kulemin, Mikhail Grabovski, and Cody Franson aren't players I associate with a team run by Burke. Burke's teams are notoriously one of the more physically aggressive teams, which this team is not. Granted, Teemu Selanne and Andy McDonald weren't running around hitting everything in 2007, so not every player played an in-your-face style. In 2007, Burke's top 6 guys could also play a physical game, as well. Ryan Getzlaf, Corey Perry, and Dustin Penner all played a great all-around game. Their bottom 6 was filled with scrappy guys who could play a regular shift. Travis Moen, Brad May, Shawn Thornton, and Sammy Pahlsson hit everything in sight. George Parros wasn't dressed a lot, but he was inserted into the lineup when the coaching staff felt they could use him. To me, Burke isn't done remodeling this team. They lack the team toughness the Ducks from a few years ago had. Outside of Mike Brown, this Leafs team isn't awfully physically intimidating. I know you love fighting, and I know you love tough old-time hockey, but your love of it is clouding your judgement. The difference between Burke's Ducks and Burke's Leafs isn't toughness, its talent.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
greenrebellion 415 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 Oh sure, he deserves some credit for winning the cup - about as much as Stan Bowman deserves for winning the cup with Chicago and Ray Shero for the Penguins fielding an AHL team in the early 2000s. Yeah he hired Carlyle and traded for Pronger, but Niedermeyer would have signed for the ducks if me or you were the GM, and the core of that team were already in place when Burke took over. After that he made some appalling signings (Bertuzzu and Schneider), put them in Cap Hell and promptly bolted for Toronto. The less said about his time in Vancouver the better. Its only because of all his buddies in the Canadian media that he has this reputation as some kind of Hockey Genius. I think he deserves more credit than you give him. The Toronto team he took over had a relatively barren prospect system, and the NHL roster was filled with AHL caliber players. When you start with so little, its going to be an uphill battle. Look at what he's done though. He destroys the flames in the Phaneuf trade, bringing in a top pairing D-man while shipping off a bunch of worthless scrubs (most of which have since left the Flames or found themselves in the minors). He also brought in Lupul, Gardiner (a great young D-man) and a draft pick for Beauchemin, another absolute steal of a trade. He then dumps Lebda (obviously not a great signing) and brings in Franson & Lombardi. Lombardi was basically a salary dump for the Preds, but Franson has played very well. And lastly, he brings in a huge return for Kaberle who has basically become a complete bust. They now have a very solid core of d-men...a couple of top flight wingers in Kessel & Lupul, much better 3rd and 4th line depth, and a restocked cupboard of picks/prospects. They are still missing a couple of key pieces, namely coaching & goaltending...but the future is fairly bright in Toronto, even if it is still a couple of years out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nev 1,085 Report post Posted February 20, 2012 He's done all that and yet they are still only a borderline playoff team? The Kessel trade was shocking, although he got back a little of what he lost with the Kaberle trade (not that a Bruins 1st is anywhere near as valuable as a Leafs 1st). The quickest way to success in the capped NHL is lottery picks on ELCs and filling out the roster with quality players once you've got them. For all the success he's had since he got there, he would have been better off really tanking his first 2 seasons and keeping hold of those first round picks.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
greenrebellion 415 Report post Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) Unless you get lucky and land a Crosby/Ovechkin/Stamkos type player (which involves you getting the top pick in the lottery and having a player of that caliber available) then maybe that strategy works. Otherwise, you end up as a bottom feeder for years upon years taking the tank and rebuild approach. Look at the Islanders and the Oilers...it takes a LONG time to rebuild a team through drafting alone and its not a guaranteed formula for success. Florida is another good example, they only started to have a modicum of success once the new GM came in, moved some pieces around and signed a bunch of free agents. Given where they came from, with a roster filled with AHL players and an empty cupboard of prospects, the Leafs as a fringe playoff team is pretty good progress, and their future a year or two out if you fill in a couple more pieces is very bright imo. Edited February 20, 2012 by greenrebellion Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cusimano_brothers 1,655 Report post Posted February 23, 2012 From Globe and Mail: ...“I’m not sure that we’re not going to be in the market [for a goalie] before we’re done,” Burke said. “It’s something that we have to at least explore what the price tags are. The fact is we’re losing games because we’re not stopping the puck enough. … We’ve got to get our goaltenders to stop the puck.” ... They've had "bottom three goaltending" for a long time; it just takes some longer to recognize it. They need to fire the guy on the right: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cusimano_brothers 1,655 Report post Posted February 24, 2012 TSN. The Pope knows. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cusimano_brothers 1,655 Report post Posted February 26, 2012 “It’s the Vatican if you’re Catholic" “truculence” “testosterone” “belligerence” “pugnacity" “I build teams from the net out.” Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barrie 900 Report post Posted February 27, 2012 As mentioned earlier, I said the Leafs would finish 12th at the beginning of the season. I got some, "you're a hater" comments from friends, but Tampa and Buffalo are only 3 pts behind them, so it could still happen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cusimano_brothers 1,655 Report post Posted February 27, 2012 It's a good thing they cleared all that cap space. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Wings Addict 787 Report post Posted February 28, 2012 "It's the Vatican if you're Catholic" "truculence" "testosterone" "belligerence" "pugnacity" What about "physics"? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedWingsRox 614 Report post Posted February 28, 2012 Imagine if Toronto made a play for Hodgson? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
e_prime 1,936 Report post Posted February 28, 2012 Was Brian Burke's Inactivity at Trade Deadline Admirable Price to be paid for players wasn't worth selling the farm for. Hmmm... sounds familiar. Although luckily, we're n a better position than the Leafs. 1 kipwinger reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,521 Report post Posted February 28, 2012 Was Brian Burke's Inactivity at Trade Deadline Admirable Price to be paid for players wasn't worth selling the farm for. Hmmm... sounds familiar. Although luckily, we're n a better position than the Leafs. I know a lot of people disagree, but I consider Burke one of the better GM's in the league. If both he and Holland are saying there wasn't s*** on the trade market for the prices asked, then I have a tendency to believe it. And I agree with you, thank god we're already a contender. As pissed as people are at Holland for doing nothing, I can only imagine the rage being showered on Burke right now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redwingfan19 293 Report post Posted February 28, 2012 wilson has got to go and they need to fire whoever the goaltending coach is there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barrie 900 Report post Posted February 29, 2012 Leafs down 2-0 already, Florida scored 15 seconds into the game. Even I'm starting to feel bad for Leaf fans, this collapse is cruel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted February 29, 2012 They need to bring back Pat Quinn. Sell the farm for Nash, put Tim Connolly on waivers and trade for Josh Harding. Or, they'll re-sign Wilson, keep what they got and add a bit more truculence and miss the playoffs again next year. I feel bad for my buddies who are Leafs fans, there diehards and that team has been so mismanaged. Hard to hear during the broadcast that only 2 teams haven't made the playoffs since the lockout, Florida and... Toronto Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedWingsRox 614 Report post Posted February 29, 2012 I hate the Leafs but even I'm starting to feel sorry for them. 1 F.Michael reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Esquire 324 Report post Posted February 29, 2012 I hate the Leafs but even I'm starting to feel sorry for them. I'm going to give you exactly 5 minutes to edit/delete this post. 1 Nev reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
