Lines: different observation

[T.Low 1,011]

The forward lines that Babcock has settled on at this point: 1st line consists of all Europeans; 2nd all Euros, 3rd all North American boys, 4th all N.A. boys. Not pointing out who is 1st or who is 4th lines, rather that they are all one or all the other.

I'm not asking if he is doing it on purpose. And yes the lines were great swithced up a little differently a short while ago.

I'm asking if you guys think it is coincidence that the line chemistry seems optimal this way, or is there more to it than that?

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Hudler-Filppula-Franzen

Bertuzzi-Modano-Cleary

Abdelkader-Helm-Miller

Maybe some of you guys that have played Juniors maybe with some Euros or even guys from across the country can chime in with an observation or two about how a player's background and culture helps shape the type of player he becomes, his hockey sense, his style, the way he sees the ice and the way he sees plays developing, etc

The social scientist in me would like to think there is more to it than just coincedence.

Edited November 17, 2010 by T.Low

[Guest Heaten]

I'm not sure those lines are the optimal lines. Personally, I like Bert on the 2nd line and Abdelkader on the 3rd line. Miller-Helm-Eaves for the 4th line. Hudler can sit. Then again, I'm not the coach. Rest assured, Babcock will juggle the lines again within the next few games.

[KonstantAdvisor 4]

I'm asking if you guys think it is coincidence that the line chemistry seems optimal this way, or is there more to it than that?

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Hudler-Filppula-Franzen

Bertuzzi-Modano-Cleary

Abdelkader-Helm-Miller

I'd say the 4th line has a standard NHL formula and Detroit has very good players. They can dump and chase, check the defense in the corners, and generate scoring chances. They are way better at the forecheck than they are at carrying the zone, and as likely to pick up chances from turnovers as anything. They rarely get out-hustled, even by top lines.

The other lines rely on passing and puck control, wearing down defenders, setting up screens. They really excel when the teams are playing without whistles, preventing shift changes for defenders, controlling the play and holding the offensive zone. It generates penalties and powerplays as well as scoring chances. With so much focus setting up plays and not immediately dumping to open spots (or shooting), they can also be prone to bad turnovers (getting too fancy) that lead to more breakaway chances.

Perhaps the NA vs Euro distinction is that unfamiliar combinations seem to have more defensive presence of mind to estimate where linemates should be and where the puck is. That way the defenseman feel more comfortable moving in to get scoring chances when one is changing or out of the play.

[T.Low 1,011]

I'm not sure those lines are the optimal lines. Personally, I like Bert on the 2nd line and Abdelkader on the 3rd line. Miller-Helm-Eaves for the 4th line. Hudler can sit. Then again, I'm not the coach. Rest assured, Babcock will juggle the lines again within the next few games.

It's hard to argue against the BFF line thats for damn sure. But Bert and Clears really got something going on and it seems to be a good fit for Modano; his numbers are going to jump up a little soon. BErtuzzi has a real talent for getting the puck to the guy going to the net and CLeary crashes the net as hard as any Wing. Those guys really seem comfortable with each other and being just south of Vancouver, I've watched Bertuzzi for the last 13 years; I've never seen him so comfortable on the ice and in front of the press. He is really happy in Detroit.

And Filp seems to be doing enough work to get both Huds and Franzen some scoring chances.

Edited November 17, 2010 by T.Low

[T.Low 1,011]

I'd say the 4th line has a standard NHL formula and Detroit has very good players. They can dump and chase, check the defense in the corners, and generate scoring chances. They are way better at the forecheck than they are at carrying the zone, and as likely to pick up chances from turnovers as anything. They rarely get out-hustled, even by top lines.

The other lines rely on passing and puck control, wearing down defenders, setting up screens. They really excel when the teams are playing without whistles, preventing shift changes for defenders, controlling the play and holding the offensive zone. It generates penalties and powerplays as well as scoring chances. With so much focus setting up plays and not immediately dumping to open spots (or shooting), they can also be prone to bad turnovers (getting too fancy) that lead to more breakaway chances.

Perhaps the NA vs Euro distinction is that unfamiliar combinations seem to have more defensive presence of mind to estimate where linemates should be and where the puck is. That way the defenseman feel more comfortable moving in to get scoring chances when one is changing or out of the play.

Excellent insights, thanks.

[St. Michael (the Red Wing) 422]

I'm not sure those lines are the optimal lines. Personally, I like Bert on the 2nd line and Abdelkader on the 3rd line. Miller-Helm-Eaves for the 4th line. Hudler can sit. Then again, I'm not the coach. Rest assured, Babcock will juggle the lines again within the next few games.

I agree 100% with this...

[Aussie_Wing 354]

I'm not sure those lines are the optimal lines. Personally, I like Bert on the 2nd line and Abdelkader on the 3rd line. Miller-Helm-Eaves for the 4th line. Hudler can sit. Then again, I'm not the coach. Rest assured, Babcock will juggle the lines again within the next few games.

Bit of a pickle, a good pickle though.

IMO Abdelkader belongs on the 3rd line, he was looking absolutely superb on that line, but due to our depth he's now playing on the 4th. I'm also of the belief that you can't sit Hudler, he clicks with Flip and they belong on the 2nd together. So my ideal lines look like...

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Holmstrom

Hudler - Filppula - Franzen

Cleary - Abdelkader - Bertuzzi

Eaves - Helm - Miller

No Modano. We really could've done without him this season, just don't see the real need. I get though that logically you sit Miller, put Abby in his place, and put Modano on Abby's 3rd line centre role.

Edited November 17, 2010 by Aussie_Wing

[GSBrooks13 204]

I think there is a bit of coincidence to it because its not like you can just take any 3 euros and throw them on a line and they will have instant chemistry.. But I think on a certain level it does help. Its no secret that the style of hockey growing up in europe would be fairly different from growing up playing hockey in NA so I definitely think to a certain extent it helps create some chemistry by playing on a line with other players who come from the same type of system you did.

[Guest mindfly]

Bit of a pickle, a good pickle though.

IMO Abdelkader belongs on the 3rd line, he was looking absolutely superb on that line, but due to our depth he's now playing on the 4th. I'm also of the belief that you can't sit Hudler, he clicks with Flip and they belong on the 2nd together. So my ideal lines look like...

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Holmstrom

Hudler - Filppula - Franzen

Cleary - Abdelkader - Bertuzzi

Eaves - Helm - Miller

No Modano. We really could've done without him this season, just don't see the real need. I get though that logically you sit Miller, put Abby in his place, and put Modano on Abby's 3rd line centre role.

15 games into the season I'm prepared to agree with you on this one, Abdelkader > Modano, at first signing Modano was a huge thrill but it was probably just because he's a legend and childhood hero of mine, but abdelkader brings alot more to the team and will also put up points if he plays on the 3rd lien where he belongs.

I have a feeling Mr.Ilitch had a lot to say about the Modano signing as he played for little ceasar ages ago and probably is one of his favourite players etc.

Edited November 17, 2010 by mindfly

[Rivalred 630]

It's hard to argue against the BFF line thats for damn sure. But Bert and Clears really got something going on and it seems to be a good fit for Modano; his numbers are going to jump up a little soon. BErtuzzi has a real talent for getting the puck to the guy going to the net and CLeary crashes the net as hard as any Wing. Those guys really seem comfortable with each other and being just south of Vancouver, I've watched Bertuzzi for the last 13 years; I've never seen him so comfortable on the ice and in front of the press. He is really happy in Detroit.

And Filp seems to be doing enough work to get both Huds and Franzen some scoring chances.

BFF... Hah!

Anyways, hasn't "the Babs" been rotating Bert and a few other players between the 2nd and 3rd line?

[Opie 308]

While it does appear that right now, the European players are playing better with other Europeans, at the start of the year Bert Fil Mule was the best line going.

I personally like these lines (I know the s*** storm about to ensue)

ZD/DZ Cleary

Hudler Flip Mule

Bert Modano Abdelkader

Miller Helm Eaves

I know I left Holmer off, but to me if he is not on the top line he is wasted, and I like the looks of that line with Cleary on it better than I do Holmstrom.

I am also not so sure how well Abby plays the wing so I could easily be convinced to go Bert Abby Holmstrom and leave Modano off, however that is not going to happen unless Mo gets injured.

[titanium2 867]

Right now the NA boys seem to working harder, which isn't the greatest news for the Wings.

[Guest MaltbyistheFuture]

Right now the NA boys seem to working harder, which isn't the greatest news for the Wings.

Can't really say I agree with this. I think Dats has been our hardest working player, though I do agree that Franzen, Filppula, and Hudler haven't been giving it their all.

[Shady Ultima 40]

I don't think Dats has been our hardest working player. I think that goes to Cleary.

[titanium2 867]

The scorers have no eye of the tiger, man; the EDGE! And now they gotta get it back, and the way to get it back is to go back to the beginning. You know what I mean?

[eva unit zero 271]

Although the Wings do have lines set up with regional origins, the line chemistry really clicks based more on player style than anything else.

Hudler works with Filppula better than he works with Modano not because Flip is a Euro and Mo is American. It's because Flip is a good skating two-way center who has always looked to pass the puck first. Modano has always been a high-speed offensive center, with his primary thought being to keep the puck and create an opportunity with the puck on his stick.

Hudler is a good skater with average speed, whose game is based primarily on positioning and puck movement. Hudler can't keep up with Modano on a rush, and Modano has a tendency to take whatever shot he has even when he has a trailer. Cleary works much better on the rush with Modano because he can keep up with him, so the wasted rush situations don't happen. And Hudler works better with Filppula because Flip's offensive game is much more similar in the puck possession style, although Hudler is more likely to take the shot and will do so from anywhere he has a good chance.

It's not a matter of where you're from. It's a matter of how you play. Bertuzzi worked well with Flip and Franzen because he served the same 'swingman' purpose Hudler does. He has a good shot and is a good passer. Gretzky played with various combinations of Mark Messier, Dave Semenko, Glenn Anderson, Esa Tikkanen, and Jari Kurri. One reason that line worked very well because he was always playing with at least one extremely talented defensive forward and he was always playing with at least one winger who had a very good shot, but it also worked well because he was always protected from hitting and cheap shots by big, strong players on his line as well as guys on defense.

Justin Abdelkader centering Drew Miller? I have been asking for that since Miller was picked up. Why? Abdelkader centered Miller on what was arguably the best line in the NCAA during their time together. Proven chemistry plus player development is definitely worth exploring at the very least. If I had to guess, chemistry might have been a factor in keeping Miller on the roster. Bob Errey being brought to the Wings at the end of his career to play on Yzerman's wing might be another good example of this.