Kindl sent to GR for conditioning stint

[HockeytownRules19 902]

Sounds good to me... Too bad he hasn't played in 13 games... but this will help keep him feel good still

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2010/12/red_wings_rookie_defenseman_ja_1.html

[Guest mindfly]

How often can players get sent to conditioning stints without having to go through waivers?

[Konnan511 1,736]

So the NHL recognizes this as a conditioning stint? Wow, I don't know how Illitch and Holland pulled this one off.

[Guest mindfly]

So the NHL recognizes this as a conditioning stint? Wow, I don't know how Illitch and Holland pulled this one off.

RED WINGS IS TEH CHEATERZZZ!!!!!!!!111111

[Konnan511 1,736]

How often can players get sent to conditioning stints without having to go through waivers?

Usually a player coming off a serious injury is allowed a conditioning stint, so I have no idea how Kindl is waiver exempt from this. The Wings have had many players go down to GRap for conditioning stints, off the top of my head: Lilja, Chelios, Legace, Ozzie, Cujo.

[eva unit zero 271]

From the NHL CBA:

13.8. Conditioning Assignment. Unless a player consents, he

shall not be sent to a minor league club for conditioning

reasons. Nor shall such conditioning extend for more than 14

consecutive days without the player's consent. The player shall

continue, during such period or mutually agreed to extension of

such period, to receive the same salary, and be entitled to the

same benefits, that he would have received had he continued to

play with the Club.

So basically it counts as if the player never actually goes down, save for the ability to fill his roster spot if necessary. Waivers would alter a two-way player's salary, and both one-way and two-way players would not necessarily receive all the same benefits.

Edited December 8, 2010 by eva unit zero

[Guest mindfly]

Can he go for a conditioning stint several times per season?

[Konnan511 1,736]

From the NHL CBA:

So basically it counts as if the player never actually goes down, save for the ability to fill his roster spot if necessary. Waivers would alter a two-way player's salary, and both one-way and two-way players would not necessarily receive all the same benefits.

SO there's no verbiage about which players can be sent down on conditioning stints? I thought you had to be coming off an injury?

[wings1110 184]

bravo Holland bravo His salary still counts against the cap while hes down there I believe but better than having him sit in the press box by far.

[Konnan511 1,736]

13.8 Conditioning Loan. Unless a Player consents, he shall not be Loaned on a Conditioning Loan to a minor league club. Such Conditioning Loan shall not extend for more than fourteen (14) consecutive days. The Commissioner may take whatever steps he deems necessary to investigate the circumstances under which a Player is Loaned on a Conditioning Loan. If the Commissioner has reason to believe or determines that the Club has used the Conditioning Loan to evade the Re-Entry Waivers, or otherwise Circumvent any provision of this Agreement, he may take such disciplinary action against the Club, as he deems appropriate. The Player shall continue, during the period of such Conditioning Loan, to receive the same Paragraph 1 NHL Salary, and be entitled to the same benefits, that he would have received had he continued to play with the Club.

13.9 Bona Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Exception Conditioning Loan. A Player who is on the Bona Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Exception as set forth in Article 50 may, with his consent, during the term of such Bona Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Exception (but in no event during the first fourteen (14) calendar days and six (6) NHL Games), be Loaned on a Conditioning Loan (the "Bona Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Exception Conditioning Loan") for a period not to exceed up to the longer of six (6) days and three (3) games, solely for the purpose of determining whether the Player is fit to play. If the Club determines that it needs more time to assess the Player's fitness to play, the Club may file a written request by facsimile with the Commissioner's Office, with a copy to the NHLPA, in accordance with Exhibit 3 hereof, to extend the Loan for an additional two (2) games. The Commissioner, upon good cause, may approve the onetime extension. The Commissioner's approval shall not be unreasonably withheld. A Player on a Bona Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Exception Conditioning Loan will continue to be listed on Injured Reserve and will not count against the Club's 23-man roster limit. The Club's Bona Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Exception will continue until the Conditioning Loan ends, and his Paragraph 1 NHL Salary and Bonuses will continue to count against the Club's Upper Limit and the Players' Share during such time. The Commissioner may take whatever steps he deems necessary to investigate the circumstances under which a Player is placed on a Bona Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Conditioning Loan. If he has reason to believe or determines that the Club has used the Bona Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Conditioning Loan to evade Re-Entry Waivers or otherwise to Circumvent any provision of this Agreement, he may take other disciplinary action against the Club as he deems appropriate. A Bona Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Conditioning Loan may be extended on one occasion. This procedure can only be used once during each period of time that the Player is on a Bona Fide Long-Term Injury Exception.

So to me the CBA reads that a player on LTIR can always be sent on a conditioning loan as long as the LTIR was ok'd by the league. But the league can investigate if they deem a team is trying to find loopholes, and to me, it seems the Wings are since Kindl isn't hurt, isn't playing and would be lost on waivers. Unless I am missing something?

[cjm502 165]

So to me the CBA reads that a player on LTIR can always be sent on a conditioning loan as long as the LTIR was ok'd by the league. But the league can investigate if they deem a team is trying to find loopholes, and to me, it seems the Wings are since Kindl isn't hurt, isn't playing and would be lost on waivers. Unless I am missing something?

Kindl hasnt played in over a month, so I think this conditioning stint is pretty valid.

[Konnan511 1,736]

Kindl hasnt played in over a month, so I think this conditioning stint is pretty valid.

No, i agree, he needs playing time, but his reason for not playing isn't because he has been injured. From the verbiage, it doesn't sound like the Wings are able to do this, but I'm glad they can apparently!

[LadyWildcat 4]

We've sent down uninjured players before; Meech went last season.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/5746-wings-d-derek-meech-sent-to-grand-rapids

[Konnan511 1,736]

So at least there is precedent at least, but I figured this would be the same in kindl's case:

However, the League will review this move to ensure the Wings’ aren’t merely circumventing waivers. The fact that Meech is little more than a 7th wheel on the Wings’ defensive bus, and that the team has no need to clear up roster space, has to mean there won’t be a problem

Except, according to hockeybuzz, the Wings are 200k over?

[eva unit zero 271]

So to me the CBA reads that a player on LTIR can always be sent on a conditioning loan as long as the LTIR was ok'd by the league. But the league can investigate if they deem a team is trying to find loopholes, and to me, it seems the Wings are since Kindl isn't hurt, isn't playing and would be lost on waivers. Unless I am missing something?

Kindl hasn't played a game in a month. The NHL's minimum requirement for placing a player on LTIR (a player has to stay out this long if he's on LTIR, even if he's ready to come back beforehand) is 10 games or 24 calendar days without playing, whichever is longer. So it seems perfectly reasonable for Kindl to play a conditioning stint in Grand Rapids, given that he's been out more than long enough to be considered LTIR had he been injured. From what I can tell, the only difference between Kindl's situation and a typical conditioning stint is that Kindl is not injured, so no LTIR and no cap relief. Other than that, everything should work out the same, regarding 23-man roster, cap hit, etc.