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Daniel Larsson's comments on Osgood&Howard


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#101 Kira

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 11:26 PM

This may sound like sour grapes and all that, but since when did Daniel Larsson become such an expert on goalies?
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#102 dobbles

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 11:39 PM

That's what people like you and ben_umsc aren't getting or purposefully ignoring. We get that Osgood is close to retiring. Everybody gets that he is currently the back up goalie. Nobody is kissing his rear end. But since you all have such an extreme view of him the opposite way, you all act like a'holes and think that just because other people don't think he is playing subpar, we're all Osgood slappies.

I will repeat, and get it through your think skull, that it has nothing to do with us or fans thinking Osgood will revert to demi-god form or that he'll play like the 2008 playoffs. That is the last thing this thread it is about. It is about knowing your place in an organization and paying respect to people who have been in this organziation longer than you, have accomplished more than you, and know how to go through the NHL grind and stress.

Howard has done that. Osgood has done that. Larsson has not done that, hence him coming off like an a'hole.

Got it?


first off i totally agree with this. as usual, its devolved into total hyperbole, but as you stated, most are pretty rational.

also, in the past i gave you a hard time for only having drive by 1 liners, so i thank you for taking the time to have a post like this that tries to find a middle ground and contributes to the thread. obviously you dont need my approval or anything, just want to say i appreciate it. :thumbup:

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#103 Casey

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 11:44 PM

I don't mind the attitude. It's rude sure but way better than Axelsson or Omark. You think Osgood really cares what this pip-squeek thinks? You think Howard will be insulted by this, or see it more as a reason to play better? He didn't dump on the team and management then burn his bridges like Axelsson and he didn't insult the GM and his teammates the way Omark did. In an organization like the Detroit Red Wings, yes you need to show respect, but a little smack talk never hurt anyone.

Sure, he still needs to prove that he should get to play for the big boys up in the NHL, but if whether he shows his thing in the SEL, KHL or AHL doesn't matter much to me and given his success so far this season and the response from Håkan Andersson seems optimistic to say the least. It's more important that he takes the No. 1 spot with the national team...


Problem is, unless he manages to pull some success at the AHL level, he hasn't earned the right to talk any smack. He's 45-36-4 in the AHL, hardly stellar numbers, and his GAA there of 2.76 and 2.85 would place him currently 28th or 29th in the AHL, second on his own team behind MacDonald. Right now he's the talented college quarterback who thinks he can smoke Peyton Manning.
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#104 Echolalia

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 11:51 PM

The way to Detroit is not unlike the way to a Stanley Cup. No matter how much talent you may have, you're not entitled to it until you do your time, make sacrifices and earn it. These cocky and impatient minor league players are demonstrating they don't have what it takes to handle disappointment at the NHL level, and that's an essential skill to have. Especially in Detroit where expectations are impossibly high, year in and year out.

#105 LeftWinger

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 11:54 PM

Funny thing is, if he'd keep his mouth shut for a minute and maybe look at the big picture, Osgood is more than likely going to retire after the season. Joey Mac is just a depth signing ( he won't be the back up to Howard next year) McCollum is going to be just like Howard and more than likely play HUGE minutes in GR until he has no options left, then come up, JOrdan Pearce isn't even on the top 25 list and this kid Petr Mrazek is only 18, so he isn't going to up too soon, so who would have been the odds on favorite to back up Howard (possibly compete for the starting spot) next season? If maybe he keeps his mouth shut the rest of the year and maybe even puts out a statement explaining that his comments were taken out of content, then MAYBE he will get that spot next season. Would make for a interesting AND exciting couple of season of HOT competition amongst Howard and himself, possibly ending up with us trading one of them at a deadline in the near future that would bring us something to put us over the top (again.) He needs to be on the phone to Andersson or Holland and telling them he just wants to come back next year and compete for that #2 (possibly #1) spot. (and take the foot out of his mouth)

Howard/Larsson sounds like a good goalie combo to me...

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#106 gcom007

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 11:56 PM

That's what people like you and ben_umsc aren't getting or purposefully ignoring. We get that Osgood is close to retiring. Everybody gets that he is currently the back up goalie. Nobody is kissing his rear end. But since you all have such an extreme view of him the opposite way, you all act like a'holes and think that just because other people don't think he is playing subpar, we're all Osgood slappies.

I will repeat, and get it through your think skull, that it has nothing to do with us or fans thinking Osgood will revert to demi-god form or that he'll play like the 2008 playoffs. That is the last thing this thread it is about. It is about knowing your place in an organization and paying respect to people who have been in this organziation longer than you, have accomplished more than you, and know how to go through the NHL grind and stress.

Howard has done that. Osgood has done that. Larsson has not done that, hence him coming off like an a'hole.

Got it?


Good stuff here.

And not that I care what Larsson thinks, nor do I think Howard or Osgood care, but I've gotta say...

I still think Osgood's potential is wildly underestimated by most. Nobody goes from putting on such an outstanding, Conn-Smythe worthy performance back in the 2009 playoffs to being completely "done" the next season. I just don't buy it at all. After all, it's the same crap that was said during the regular season of him before that great playoff run. I don't know what the hell his deal is with the regular season anymore and it is rather, umm, annoying perhaps? But when push comes to shove, it's hard for me to believe that Osgood doesn't still have what it takes to be a money goaltender when it counts. I don't think he was given enough of a chance last year down the stretch to prove anything in the regular season anyways. The situation with the rotation was a joke and as much as it is physically challenging to come in after month long breaks and play strong, the mental frustration he must've gone through sitting for so long could not have helped. I think he's playing better this year; he's had some strong games.

I think Howard's obviously a better regular season goalie at this point in time despite his struggles creeping up more often than not over the last 5-6 games, but even if Osgood was playing worse, I'm not going to lie, I'd feel better heading into the playoffs with him starting than Howard still this year. I like Howard and I think he's got a lot of what it takes to last, but I still think he has lessons to learn while watching, much like Osgood had to learn watching Vernon.

It's easy to rip on Osgood's regular season performance these days, but it's also easy to rip on Howard's playoff performance last year. Even if he wasn't horrible, he was not even remotely close to "great" and in fact he played significantly worse than he played in the regular season. Playoff hockey is a different game, and Osgood knows that very well. If Osgood can continue to compete this season and can begin to challenge Howard, I think it'd be best for the team and Howard (in terms of overall development) if Osgood started. Again, I still think there's a strong possibility that he can be a great playoff goalie.

And again, I'm sorry if it bugs some of you, but if any goalies prove that the regular season and the playoffs are totally different beasts, it's Howard and Osgood...oh, and Manny Legace! Osgood was a vastly superior playoff goalie in the 2009 playoffs than in the regular season and Howard was a far better regular season goalie than playoff goalie in 2010. And Legace is just a joke.

We'll see how it goes, but I still really like both of our goalies for what I believe to be quite rational reasons. Both have strengths and weaknesses. I think both have the potential to get it done when it counts. Howard might have more to learn to get there, but he's more than capable. And I think Osgood likely still has what it takes to go the distance.

Bottom line, Daniel Larsson: I'm not worried.
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#107 gcom007

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 12:04 AM

Funny thing is, if he'd keep his mouth shut for a minute and maybe look at the big picture, Osgood is more than likely going to retire after the season. Joey Mac is just a depth signing ( he won't be the back up to Howard next year) McCollum is going to be just like Howard and more than likely play HUGE minutes in GR until he has no options left, then come up, JOrdan Pearce isn't even on the top 25 list and this kid Petr Mrazek is only 18, so he isn't going to up too soon, so who would have been the odds on favorite to back up Howard (possibly compete for the starting spot) next season? If maybe he keeps his mouth shut the rest of the year and maybe even puts out a statement explaining that his comments were taken out of content, then MAYBE he will get that spot next season. Would make for a interesting AND exciting couple of season of HOT competition amongst Howard and himself, possibly ending up with us trading one of them at a deadline in the near future that would bring us something to put us over the top (again.) He needs to be on the phone to Andersson or Holland and telling them he just wants to come back next year and compete for that #2 (possibly #1) spot. (and take the foot out of his mouth)

Howard/Larsson sounds like a good goalie combo to me...


Tough to get behind anything regarding the goalies until after this season. If Howard starts in the playoffs and struggles again, or if he doesn't finish as strong in the regular season, there's no way in hell it'll be Howard/Larsson. If Osgood proves that he can still win games, which I think he will down the stretch just fine, he'll likely be signed on for another year. Wings aren't prone to pushing veterans who want to stay out especially if there's no one who's being criminally held back in the AHL, and Osgood will sign for dirt cheap.

My bet is that Larsson means everything he said, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's simply trying to write his ticket out of Detroit. It's not hard to see the writing on the wall in the Wings system: you're going to be chilling in the AHL for awhile. If you don't have the patience of that, you're probably better off somewhere else. I don't doubt that he knows this on some level at this point at all.
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#108 LeftWinger

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 12:13 AM

regarding Osgood, it's obvious he isn't going to get that many more starts, but it's a guarantee Babcock will give him enough to allow him the chance of reaching that #400 everyone wants him to get to. He played well enough last week to get #399, but WTF was he doing on the OT goal? Anyhow, Larsson should bite his lip, apologize and come back to back up Howard next season, beause in a few years, McCollum will be up and then Larsson will be s*** out of luck...

Tough to get behind anything regarding the goalies until after this season. If Howard starts in the playoffs and struggles again, or if he doesn't finish as strong in the regular season, there's no way in hell it'll be Howard/Larsson. If Osgood proves that he can still win games, which I think he will down the stretch just fine, he'll likely be signed on for another year. Wings aren't prone to pushing veterans who want to stay out especially if there's no one who's being criminally held back in the AHL, and Osgood will sign for dirt cheap.

My bet is that Larsson means everything he said, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's simply trying to write his ticket out of Detroit. It's not hard to see the writing on the wall in the Wings system: you're going to be chilling in the AHL for awhile. If you don't have the patience of that, you're probably better off somewhere else. I don't doubt that he knows this on some level at this point at all.

I do agree with all your point and personally hope Osgood does start playing 2008-2009 better. I was just going under the idea that if Osgood retired after the season, Larsson WOULD'VE been the odds favorite to be up here with Howard (you're right that is if Howard progresses and doesn't take a dump in the stretch and playoffs.)

:lol: Someone should tell Larsson, that Manny is honing his skills in the German League getting ready for that call to come back and back-up Howard for a couple of season's... (at least we hope, eh Waz?)

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#109 RedWingsJunkie

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 12:13 AM

Unless Larsson is an obvious second coming of Hasek or Roy then you really have to be blind not to understand how things work in the Wings organization. You think that Larsson may realize that guys like Darren Helm, Derek Meech, Kyle Quincey, Jonanthan Ericsson, Jakub Kindl, Matt Ellis, Joey MacDonald and Jimmy Howard, just to name a few, would have liked to make the NHL sooner and longer then they did before putting in years in the AHL.

The Wings have established a long history of bringing young players along as slowly as they can, allowing them a good chunk of seasoning in the AHL. It is for this same reason that the Wings left the Fabian Brunnstrom sweepstakes a few years ago and instead went after Ville Leino. Brunnstrom wanted to play in the NHL and Leino was willing to play in the AHL. Who is doing better now? Leino looks like a big fish that got away and Brunnstrom, well he is struggling to score in the AHL.

Edited by RedWingsJunkie, 10 December 2010 - 12:20 AM.


#110 LeftWinger

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 12:26 AM

What are the odds that Larsson has been exchanging Tweets with Stefan Liv? :ninja:

on a slightly different note, Howard is a UFA after the season, what do you guys think he'll re-sign/ask for? I hope not too much!

Edited by LeftWinger, 10 December 2010 - 12:30 AM.

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#111 Crymson

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 12:28 AM

I don't think some of you are understanding how easy it is to be frustrated without acting like a little sh*t like Larson did. No matter if you think what he said was accurate or not, disrespecting other members of his organization was both unnecessary and completely out of line.

Tough to get behind anything regarding the goalies until after this season. If Howard starts in the playoffs and struggles again, or if he doesn't finish as strong in the regular season, there's no way in hell it'll be Howard/Larsson. If Osgood proves that he can still win games, which I think he will down the stretch just fine, he'll likely be signed on for another year. Wings aren't prone to pushing veterans who want to stay out especially if there's no one who's being criminally held back in the AHL, and Osgood will sign for dirt cheap.

My bet is that Larsson means everything he said, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's simply trying to write his ticket out of Detroit. It's not hard to see the writing on the wall in the Wings system: you're going to be chilling in the AHL for awhile. If you don't have the patience of that, you're probably better off somewhere else. I don't doubt that he knows this on some level at this point at all.


If Howard struggles again during the postseason? Howard's save percentage was .915 last postseason, despite the tremendous number of power plays he had to face against the Sharks.

Edited by Crymson, 10 December 2010 - 12:29 AM.


#112 Hockeytown0001

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 12:34 AM

1. Larssen is dealt
2. Larssen wins both the Calder and Vezina trophy in his rookie year
3. LGW demands Holland's firing for not seeing into the future

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#113 gcom007

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 12:45 AM

If Howard struggles again during the postseason? Howard's save percentage was .915 last postseason, despite the tremendous number of power plays he had to face against the Sharks.


Since stats mean everything???

Do you honestly think Howard played well last post-season? Have you forgotten the story outside the stats? The horrible timing on countless goals? Poor 1st period performances leaving us with our backs against the wall the rest of the game?

Can you honestly say and than objectively defend the idea that he played even close to as well in the playoffs as he did in the regular season? Furthermore, could you say he played well enough at all to win the Cup?

Perhaps you should contrast Howard's playoff run last year against Osgood's last two wildly successful playoff runs, one ending in a Cup and the other a game 7 near miss in which he was a Conn Smyth contender carrying a battered team on his back. Remember that? Datsyuk missed a lot of games and wasn't a force when in. Rafalski missed quite a few. Countless others were hurting pretty bad. Even Lidstrom missed games! So again, just compare those successful runs against Howard's and try to tell me that Howard played well enough to go the distance.

Remember everyone and their mother wanting Osgood in? Osgood! If this silly fan base is panicking enough to want Osgood in, you have to believe that there's something to be said for Howard not getting the job done, exaggerated somewhat or not.

But hell, just look at Babcock's attitude this year heading into the season with Osgood. He's infinitely more supportive of Osgood this year, giving him opportunities and praise early on. Why? It's not hard to read between the lines: Howard didn't have what it takes last year, not even close. And while Osgood may not have it anymore either, after Howard's blatant struggles, Babcock seems determined to not back himself into the same corner with a totally cold Osgood again this year. That says something.
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#114 Doc Holliday

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 12:58 AM

What are the odds that Larsson has been exchanging Tweets with Stefan Liv? :ninja:

on a slightly different note, Howard is a UFA after the season, what do you guys think he'll re-sign/ask for? I hope not too much!


Between 3 and 4 million, depending on how the second half and playoffs go.

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#115 Casey

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 12:59 AM

Between 3 and 4 million, depending on how the second half and playoffs go.


He'll get it here. Bet on it.
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#116 LeftWinger

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 01:31 AM

Between 3 and 4 million, depending on how the second half and playoffs go.

God, I hope not! Of course anything short of a Stanely Cup, he should get LESS than Antii Niemi... Win a Cup? $2M! Hey, he has Niemi to thank for that!

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#117 Crymson

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 03:13 AM

Since stats mean everything???

Do you honestly think Howard played well last post-season? Have you forgotten the story outside the stats? The horrible timing on countless goals? Poor 1st period performances leaving us with our backs against the wall the rest of the game?

Can you honestly say and than objectively defend the idea that he played even close to as well in the playoffs as he did in the regular season? Furthermore, could you say he played well enough at all to win the Cup?

Perhaps you should contrast Howard's playoff run last year against Osgood's last two wildly successful playoff runs, one ending in a Cup and the other a game 7 near miss in which he was a Conn Smyth contender carrying a battered team on his back. Remember that? Datsyuk missed a lot of games and wasn't a force when in. Rafalski missed quite a few. Countless others were hurting pretty bad. Even Lidstrom missed games! So again, just compare those successful runs against Howard's and try to tell me that Howard played well enough to go the distance.

Remember everyone and their mother wanting Osgood in? Osgood! If this silly fan base is panicking enough to want Osgood in, you have to believe that there's something to be said for Howard not getting the job done, exaggerated somewhat or not.

But hell, just look at Babcock's attitude this year heading into the season with Osgood. He's infinitely more supportive of Osgood this year, giving him opportunities and praise early on. Why? It's not hard to read between the lines: Howard didn't have what it takes last year, not even close. And while Osgood may not have it anymore either, after Howard's blatant struggles, Babcock seems determined to not back himself into the same corner with a totally cold Osgood again this year. That says something.


I disagree.

#118 SweWings

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 04:58 AM

Problem is, unless he manages to pull some success at the AHL level, he hasn't earned the right to talk any smack. He's 45-36-4 in the AHL, hardly stellar numbers, and his GAA there of 2.76 and 2.85 would place him currently 28th or 29th in the AHL, second on his own team behind MacDonald. Right now he's the talented college quarterback who thinks he can smoke Peyton Manning.

I think you're exaggerating more than a little but I see your point. Thing is, a lot of current European goalkeepers in the NHL don't really take the AHL path, especially in recent years. That might partially be due to desperation but also because they've often proven themselves in their domestic league + international competitions and that experience tends to be equivalent to any AHL experience. If Larsson keeps his current stats in the Swedish league he will probably win Best Goalkeeper of the Year in the SEL and be among the front runners for the No. 1 in the Swedish national team in the 2011 WC. If he grabs that spot and does well, a big IF considering there will probably be more than 1 NHL goalie around, then I don't see why Detroit wouldn't take a chance on him as back up.

#119 RusDRW

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 05:50 AM

Sometimes I feel for those players chosen by the Wings. Imagine, for example, Thomas Tatar. He is more or less NHL ready and he will be in the minors for at least one more year. What's about Mursak? Well, at least 25 organization in the NHL would play this guys in the major league. Don't forget that it is all about money not playing time. Spending excessive time in AHL means you're getting paid big bucks a bit later. I would hate this situation if I was Tatar, for example. From this point of view, I understand Larsson frustration, especially, considering that he wasn't even given a chance to show what he can do at the NHL level.
Sweet. This dude was brought here for one reason, to punch people in the head - every other thing that he can do, other Wings can do better. I like that we have a head-puncher. The league has other, better head-punchers, but this one is ours. Better than nothing. Good work, Kenny!

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#120 Casey

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 10:40 AM

I think you're exaggerating more than a little but I see your point. Thing is, a lot of current European goalkeepers in the NHL don't really take the AHL path, especially in recent years. That might partially be due to desperation but also because they've often proven themselves in their domestic league + international competitions and that experience tends to be equivalent to any AHL experience. If Larsson keeps his current stats in the Swedish league he will probably win Best Goalkeeper of the Year in the SEL and be among the front runners for the No. 1 in the Swedish national team in the 2011 WC. If he grabs that spot and does well, a big IF considering there will probably be more than 1 NHL goalie around, then I don't see why Detroit wouldn't take a chance on him as back up.


I'm not saying he has to do that wonderfully in the AHL, but since he brought it up, it's the only real metric we have for comparing him and Howard. I've no problem with him playing in the SEL and making the leap if he's good enough, I've a problem with him saying he wiped the floor with Howard in the AHL.

Let's go to the tape, shall we?

In his last two years as the Griffins' starter, Howard was 21-28-2 and 21-18-4, GAA of 2.83 and 2.54, save percentage of 0.907 and 0.916. Hefty improvement in number of losses, as well as GAA, slight in save percentage.

In his last two seasons as a Griffins starter, Larsson was 22-12-2 and 23-24-2, GAA of 2.76 and 2.85, save percentage of 0.907 and 0.903.

The one year they overlap, Howard beats Larsson in point percentage, GAA, save percentage. I just don't see where he can say he beat Howard at all, let alone wiped the floor with him.
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