217 replies to this topic

[Reds4Life]

So being tenth in wins all-time is average now?

Are you kidding me? TEAMS win games. Awarding wins just to goalies is incredibly stupid.

Osgood was NEVER the best goalie in the game, never. He is an average goalie, nothing more, nothing less.

[eva unit zero]

Are you kidding me? TEAMS win games. Awarding wins just to goalies is incredibly stupid.

Osgood was NEVER the best goalie in the game, never. He is an average goalie, nothing more, nothing less.

He was the best in 1995-96. And through the 90s he was always among the best. Osgood is not an average goalie. Manny Legace, Manny Fernandez, and Dwayne Roloson are/were average goalies.

[Barrie]

4th best... You forget Hasek.

Nope I didn't forget Hasek.

After his 400th? Yeah, I think he deserves the HHOF AND a retired Number. C'mon look at the stats! The man is one of the BEST Goalies EVER. To be honest, if you think he doesn't you're crazy. He is more than likely going to retire as a Red Wing, with everything he has contributed to the team I WANT that # up there. Lidstrom and Osgood deserve to be up there together. Is it sacred ground? Surely, and these two are the best still left of those teams. Draper and Holmstrom did not provide like them so NO they don't need to be retired. Neither does Shannahan or Fedorov, they left and even if they contributed like Yzerman they weren't "The Captain" or our goalie or 6-Time Norris Trophy winner.

Tell me number 30 wouldn't look good up there with 5!

Right, from this current 20 year run, I don't think it's out of the question to have 5, 19, and 30 retired, with 13 and 40 to follow in the next 10 years or so.

Osgood is such and interesting debate, on the surface it's a no, but looking at his numbers, how can it not be? They guy's done it all!

[thedisappearer]

And through the 90s he was always among the best. Osgood is not an average goalie. Manny Legace, Manny Fernandez, and Dwayne Roloson are/were average goalies.[/font]

He continually finished outside the top 10 in S% and GAA. Get over it.

[Barrie]

He continually finished outside the top 10 in S% and GAA. Get over it.

The debate about Osgood I find similar to Derek Jeter. For years I've heard about some sort of range factor number that says Jeter is a below average Short Stop, however when it comes to Championships, clutch performances, and guys that can handle the pressure of a big game, Jeter's da man! The same can be said for Osgood.

Personally I think some stats are overrated. Winning should take a precedence over some stats, because that's why they play, is to win.

[eva unit zero]

He continually finished outside the top 10 in S% and GAA. Get over it.

Shots on goal is not always a perfect statistic because of blocked shots. If Lidstrom takes an unscreened shot from the point, it will probably be stopped, right? What if that shot is blocked instead? The same result, but the goalie's stats aren't affected.

Example:

If the Wings take 40 shots against LA with no blocked shots, and score 4 goals, then Quick's sv% is .900, right? But what if some of those 40 are blocked? Now we only have, say, 33 shots on goal. The high quality chances were still there, so the goals still happened; blind shots from the point are unlikely to get through and go in. So now Quick's sv% is .879, simply because his team performed better on defense.

It's not simply a matter of "this guy stops a higher percentage of shots, so he's better" because the stat does not account for whether it was a one-timer from the low slot or a puck flipped on net from outside the blue line.

[Barrie]

Posted in the "HOF Stats" discussion, but should be here too...

It's if Ozzie should go in the hall of fame or not, but could be used to decide if his number should be retired or not.

http://www.mlive.com...ian_offers.html

DETROIT -- Whether Detroit Red Wings goaltender Chris Osgood deserves to be in the Hockey Hall of Fame likely will continue to be debated.

Red Wings statistician Greg Innis offered a statistical analysis in Osgood's favor. Here is what Innis wrote:

1. There are 31 players currently enshrined in the Hockey Hall of Fame who played exclusively as a goaltender in the NHL or its fore-runners (PCHL or NHA). Only 6 of those 31 (Patrick Roy, Terry Sawchuk, Jacques Plante, Tony Esposito, Glenn Hall and Grant Fuhr) have won more games than Osgood (400).

2. Osgood currently has 50 regular season shutouts. Only 14 of those H.O.F. goalies have more.

3. Osgood has had just one regular-season in which he finished below .500. That was 2009-10, when he posted a 7-9-4 record. Of those goalies in the H.O.F., only three can make that claim (Ken Dryden 0, Bill Durnan 1 & Patrick Roy 1).

4. Osgood has been on three Stanley Cup-winning teams. Nineteen of the goalies in the H.O.F. have been on less.

5. In the playoffs, Osgood has won 74 games. Only four H.O.F. netminders have won more (Patrick Roy, Grant Fuhr, Billy Smith and Ken Dryden).

6. Osgood has recorded 15 postseason shutouts. Only Patrick Roy (23) has more among goalies in the Hall.

7. Of the 10 netminders who reached the 400-win plateau, only Martin Brodeur did it quicker (720 games, compared to Osgood's 742).

8. Some who are opposed to Osgood becoming a member of the H.O.F. claim that he was "surrounded" by great players. True, but consider the fact that Ken Dryden is in the Hall, and in his final NHL season, 1978-79, nine of his Montreal teammates are in, as well. Or how about Johnny Bower? He, along with nine of his teammates from the 1967 Maple Leafs team are enshrined.

[Reds4Life]

He was the best in 1995-96. And through the 90s he was always among the best. Osgood is not an average goalie. Manny Legace, Manny Fernandez, and Dwayne Roloson are/were average goalies.

How is Osgood any better than Roloson?

Osgood is a compiler, lucky to play for the Wings - behind one of the best defenses in the league for most of his career. If he hadn't joined Wings, there would be no discussion about HHOF or retiring numbers. It would be a disgrace to retire his number.

As for his 3 Cups? The first one - Osgood was no.2 goalie; the second Cup - Wings won despite Osgood's piss poor performance; 3rd Cup - Osgood was great. One great playoff run does not make him HHOFer.

Edited by Reds4Life, 31 December 2010 - 03:49 AM.

[Echolalia]

He's had a hell of a career, but I just don't see his number hanging from the rafters. The very fact that we even have to debate it speaks volumes against his chances. He's good, but he's not on the same level as Yzerman, Howe, and co.

[Citizen Kirk]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned, didn't read through the entire thread, but how would you all feel if the Wings did something like a Ring of Honor? With the sheer amount of great players that wear and have worn the winged wheel, I think that the rafters need to be reserved for the most special of players to keep it as big of an honor as it is. We need to avoid that slippery slope of "wel if _____ gets in, then _____ should get in too!" If we start thinking like that, we'll start running out of numbers that aren't lame. With that being said, we've also seen enough talent roll through JLA that deserve some form of immortality and recognition. I think a Ring of Honor would be a cool way of giving guys like Shanny, Federov, Probert, etc., that piece of immortality they earned while still keeping the rafters of the Joe a sacred area.

[Holmstrom96]

Osgood's number won't be retired. He's good, but not that good. The only number I can see hanging up soon is Lidstrom's 5.

[crotty99]

Somewhat related: http://baroque97ramb...od-hall-of.html

Really good write up about Osgood's chances to make the Hall of Fame. Good read.

[Reds4Life]

Somewhat related: http://baroque97ramb...od-hall-of.html

Really good write up about Osgood's chances to make the Hall of Fame. Good read.

That is incredibly simplified article, written by someone who knows nothing about hockey history and how different the game was in different eras.

[HankthaTank]

Ozzie most likely will not be in the rafters. The standards to be up there are very very high (I mean, just look up there!). I have always appreciated the things he has done while in the winged wheel and will always be one of the favorites for Wings fans all over for his demeanor and the great play when it mattered most. #5 is next and probably the only for a very long time to hang in the Joe's and new arena's rafters.

[KonstantAdvisor]

He's had a hell of a career, but I just don't see his number hanging from the rafters. The very fact that we even have to debate it speaks volumes against his chances. He's good, but he's not on the same level as Yzerman, Howe, and co.

I've read comments like this in more than one place and am really shocked this discussion has reached 10 pages. I'm not going to quote every one, because I think this one sums up the double standards and highly selective memory of fans who never had their faith riding on Detroit's non-Osgood goaltenders.

If you think #30 shouldn't hang next to #5, I think it's a huge slap in the face to any fan of #1. The fact that #1 won his last Cup in Toronto is something Detroit fans can never change, but Osgood came back after being traded and took the Red Wings to the SCF twice.

So I'm going to chalk it up to sour grapes, but I find it embarrassing that so-called fans of Detroit work so hard to forget and discredit their champions - anyone who has further doubts can check the Captain's Log.

[LeftWinger]

If he gets elected to the Hall, then retire his number. Not before. The Joe's rafters are reserved for the best. HOF'er, hang the sweater.

[crotty99]

That is incredibly simplified article, written by someone who knows nothing about hockey history and how different the game was in different eras.

Oh sorry, sometimes I forget that lgw is filled with experts and professionals. I'll keep amateur opinions to myself next time.

..just saying, I thought the number breakdown was very interesting and he made some good points in the article.

[LeftWinger]

Are you kidding me? TEAMS win games. Awarding wins just to goalies is incredibly stupid.

Osgood was NEVER the best goalie in the game, never. He is an average goalie, nothing more, nothing less.

So, using that theory, lets not give any of the 9 goalies ahead of Osgood ANY credit. Especially those Broduer and Roy characters, just look at the teams they played for, hell, my Gramma could've won in Colorado or New Jersey... Pfft, 600 wins, Marty is average, put him on Florida his whole career and he doesn't have 200 wins...

strange, since Yzerman never won the Hart or Richard award,I guess he was never the best center in the game, ever. Hell, without his teammates he doesn't have 1063 assists without his teammates. Brett Hull was average until Adam Oates played with him, I guess Hull doesn't deserve his HOF induction or number retired.

Edited by LeftWinger, 04 January 2011 - 07:58 PM.

[haroldsnepsts]

Are you kidding me? TEAMS win games. Awarding wins just to goalies is incredibly stupid.

Osgood was NEVER the best goalie in the game, never. He is an average goalie, nothing more, nothing less.

While I agree he's never been the best goalie in the game, he's above an average goalie. An average goalie does not have a 16 year career in the NHL.

[Doc Holliday]

Osgood is not legendary in any way like those before him.

Osgood will likely not make the HOF.

Osgood should not have his number hanging from the rafters. However he is better than a lot of you downers say.