Retire Osgood's #30?

[eva unit zero 271]

How is Osgood any better than Roloson?

Osgood is a compiler, lucky to play for the Wings - behind one of the best defenses in the league for most of his career. If he hadn't joined Wings, there would be no discussion about HHOF or retiring numbers. It would be a disgrace to retire his number.

As for his 3 Cups? The first one - Osgood was no.2 goalie; the second Cup - Wings won despite Osgood's piss poor performance; 3rd Cup - Osgood was great. One great playoff run does not make him HHOFer.

Roloson is three years older, and yet Osgood had won a Stanley Cup before Roloson had 75 NHL starts under his belt.

Osgood has had six 30-win seasons. Roloson has had none.

Only once in Osgood's professional career has he posted a losing record, that being last season's 7-9-4 record. Roloson has done so seven times in the NHL and once in the AHL.

Osgood was consistently considered a top goaltender throughout the 90s, has been named to play in the all-star game multiple times as well as having been named a member of the postseason all-star team. Roloson has made one appearance in the all-star game, selected because he and Fernandez were the only realistic options for the Wild at that point.

[Reds4Life 51]

So, using that theory, lets not give any of the 9 goalies ahead of Osgood ANY credit. Especially those Broduer and Roy characters, just look at the teams they played for, hell, my Gramma could've won in Colorado or New Jersey... Pfft, 600 wins, Marty is average, put him on Florida his whole career and he doesn't have 200 wins...

strange, since Yzerman never won the Hart or Richard award,I guess he was never the best center in the game, ever. Hell, without his teammates he doesn't have 1063 assists without his teammates. Brett Hull was average until Adam Oates played with him, I guess Hull doesn't deserve his HOF induction or number retired.

I never said your grandma could have won in Colorado. Wins credited to goalies is a stupid idea. You might as well give the win to all the defensemen and forwards. I guess Lidstrom has at least 500 wins by now.

Look at the Cup run in 97. Osgood is a no.2 goalie.

Cup run in 98. Was Osgood good? The series against Phoenix and Dallas say otherwise. The Wings won DESPITE Osgood's poor performance. Your grandma would have had a chance as well.

He was great in 2008. Really good. Wings wouldn't have won without him.

If Osgood spent his career on the Islanders team, would there be any conversation about HHOF? Hasek has less wins because he was on a poor Buffalo team for most of his career. Is Osgood better? No way.

Yzerman had one year where he could be considered the best center in the game, and he won the Pearson (Lindsay now) trophy that year. Your Hull analogy doesn't make sense.

While I agree he's never been the best goalie in the game, he's above an average goalie. An average goalie does not have a 16 year career in the NHL.

I meant that he is average goalie compared to the league. Overall, he has had an above average career for sure.

Roloson is three years older, and yet Osgood had won a Stanley Cup before Roloson had 75 NHL starts under his belt.

Yes, that was clearly all Osgood in 97 and 98.

Osgood has had six 30-win seasons. Roloson has had none.

Not a team stat at all.

Only once in Osgood's professional career has he posted a losing record, that being last season's 7-9-4 record. Roloson has done so seven times in the NHL and once in the AHL.

Not a team stat at all.

Osgood was consistently considered a top goaltender throughout the 90s, has been named to play in the all-star game multiple times as well as having been named a member of the postseason all-star team. Roloson has made one appearance in the all-star game, selected because he and Fernandez were the only realistic options for the Wild at that point.

All-star game..what a cool award.

He was named only once to the all star team (and 2nd AST at that).

He has won zero major awards (Jennings is nothing special) and the only reason why people are discussing Osgood and HHOF is the 400 wins achievement. That alone does not get you to HHOF. And if you are not in HHOF you are not gonna have your number retired in Detroit.

Edited January 5, 2011 by Reds4Life

[titanium2 867]

Osgood will likely not make the HOF.

Osgood should not have his number hanging from the rafters.

To hear you say these words is extremely depressing.

[titanium2 867]

Good read if you especially like Ozzie.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sports/Diminutive+Osgood+keeps+ticking/4059651/story.html?cid=megadrop_story

[VM1138 1,921]

Who wrote that? Terrible writing, typos and more. Here's some fun from it: Apparently Osgood transformed his game to become a "butterlier."

[titanium2 867]

Who wrote that? Terrible writing, typos and more. Here's some fun from it: Apparently Osgood transformed his game to become a "butterlier."

Yeah but I like the quotes more than anything.

[Osgood=WIN! 0]

Rafters..very debatable

Hall..no question.

[eva unit zero 271]

Look at the Cup run in 97. Osgood is a no.2 goalie.

Cup run in 98. Was Osgood good? The series against Phoenix and Dallas say otherwise. The Wings won DESPITE Osgood's poor performance. Your grandma would have had a chance as well.

2.12 GAA, .918 sv%. 2 shutouts. He faced 26 shots per game. Vernon only faced 24 in 1997. I am amused that you argue that one of the team's best players in that run, with those kind of numbers, had a poor performance.

If Osgood spent his career on the Islanders team, would there be any conversation about HHOF? Hasek has less wins because he was on a poor Buffalo team for most of his career. Is Osgood better? No way.

Hasek's defense in Buffalo was underrated. Yes, his team allowed a lot of shots through; but they were a high percentage perimeter shots. He was a great goalie, and came up huge often, but his numbers through the 90s were slightly exaggerated due to the fact that his defense was good at clearing screens and keeping the puck on the outside.

Yzerman had one year where he could be considered the best center in the game, and he won the Pearson (Lindsay now) trophy that year. Your Hull analogy doesn't make sense.

Yzerman won the Pearson in 1989. He was named First Team at center in 2000. That's two separate years. As far as the Hull analogy you are complaining about? Hull was a decent goal scorer who suddenly became an elite player when paired with Oates, a very skilled playmaker. When Oates left, Hull's goal scoring dropped considerably, putting up OK numbers with Craig Janney, who is a decent playmaker but no Oates. Oates kept on scoring at a high level without Hull.

I meant that he is average goalie compared to the league. Overall, he has had an above average career for sure.

An average goalie compared to the league would play a few seasons in the league and compete for a starting position. He would not win one in his rookie season and hold a starting job on the most successful team in the league for almost a decade before being traded, and starting for a few seasons and then coming back and having to win back his starting job.

Osgood is, or at very least was, a great goaltender.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

To hear you say these words is extremely depressing.

Oh right, because I'm an illogical Osgood homer.

[Guest CaliWingsNut]

This whole conversation seems to be... Has Osgood stood in goal long enough to be honored?

S. Cups don't seem to be a consideration (will draper/malts be retired?)

What else is there?

[Reds4Life 51]

2.12 GAA, .918 sv%. 2 shutouts. He faced 26 shots per game. Vernon only faced 24 in 1997. I am amused that you argue that one of the team's best players in that run, with those kind of numbers, had a poor performance.[/font]

Are you serious? Osgood allowed incredibly soft goals in both of those series, which put the team in trouble. The team came back because it was a hell of a team. Osgood was anything but great that spring.

Hasek's defense in Buffalo was underrated. Yes, his team allowed a lot of shots through; but they were a high percentage perimeter shots. He was a great goalie, and came up huge often, but his numbers through the 90s were slightly exaggerated due to the fact that his defense was good at clearing screens and keeping the puck on the outside.

Defense is not the whole team. Underrated? Maybe, but it was still not even top 10 defense in the league at any given time.

With the pathetic offense Buffalo had, I am surprised Hasek won at all.

Yzerman won the Pearson in 1989. He was named First Team at center in 2000. That's two separate years. As far as the Hull analogy you are complaining about? Hull was a decent goal scorer who suddenly became an elite player when paired with Oates, a very skilled playmaker. When Oates left, Hull's goal scoring dropped considerably, putting up OK numbers with Craig Janney, who is a decent playmaker but no Oates. Oates kept on scoring at a high level without Hull.

OK, I forgot about Yzerman's 2000 First team award. So he was the best center 2 times (although it can be argued that Gretzky, and especially Lemieux were better in 89).

Hull won the Hart trophy, Pearson and led the league in goals scored three times while competing against Gretzky. He is one of the best goal scorers ever.

Both of these guys have personal awards Osgood lacks.

An average goalie compared to the league would play a few seasons in the league and compete for a starting position. He would not win one in his rookie season and hold a starting job on the most successful team in the league for almost a decade before being traded, and starting for a few seasons and then coming back and having to win back his starting job.

Osgood is, or at very least was, a great goaltender.

Considering the teams he played on, he had average stats. He has had a very good career, but there is no Hall of Very Good.

Edited January 5, 2011 by Reds4Life

[titanium2 867]

Oh right, because I'm an illogical Osgood homer.

I wasn't thinking that at all to be honest, haha. I just thought that if anyone had a real fair idea on that subject it would be you.

[sputman 1,268]

should curtis joseph be in the HOF because of his wins?

has osgood been one of the best at his position consistent throughout his career compared to other goalies?

when you think of the best goalies of all time, do you think of osgood?

i think the odds are stacked against our friend.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

I wasn't thinking that at all to be honest, haha. I just thought that if anyone had a real fair idea on that subject it would be you.

Apologies, then.

I have had a few issues with posters attacking me instead of the subject on this matter, so I tend to get a bit defensive.

[Theophany 110]

Considering the teams he played on, he had average stats. He has had a very good career, but there is no Hall of Very Good.

It's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of I'm Awesome at My Position.

It's not about being the best at your position, it's about being important to hockey history.

I'm not saying that Osgood deserves to be in, but there are worse players in the HOF than Ozzie.

As far as the topic of this thread, there's about a 20% chance that he gets his number retired right now. It'll go up as he climbs the all-time win list, but I doubt it'll ever be 100% unless he's #1 in all-time wins (which will never happen), or unless he's the #1 goalie when we win another Cup.

Edited January 6, 2011 by Theophany

[titanium2 867]

Apologies, then.

I have had a few issues with posters attacking me instead of the subject on this matter, so I tend to get a bit defensive.

No apologies necessary. I've "attacked" you before if that is remotely abrasive enough to be considered that so I don't blame ya.

I'm still going to hope to see #30 up there one day though. It'd be nice but standards are standards so whatever. We shall see.

[eva unit zero 271]

should curtis joseph be in the HOF because of his wins?

has osgood been one of the best at his position consistent throughout his career compared to other goalies?

when you think of the best goalies of all time, do you think of osgood?

i think the odds are stacked against our friend.

Osgood was a top ten netminder in the NHL for most of his career. Only one goaltender in his age range has been better consistently, and that's Marty Brodeur.

When I think of the best goalies of all-time, Osgood is among the group. He's a clutch goaltender who has been a longtime starter who plays very well and wins most of his starts.

Also, food for thought:

Osgood is 8th all-time in playoff wins, and 4th all-time in playoff shutouts. His overall playoff stats are very similar to Brodeur's, except that Osgood's w/l record is far better. Osgood's playoff record is actually very similar to Roy's when you adjust for the number of games played.

[Echolalia 2,961]

Osgood was a top ten netminder in the NHL for most of his career. Only one goaltender in his age range has been better consistently, and that's Marty Brodeur.

When I think of the best goalies of all-time, Osgood is among the group. He's a clutch goaltender who has been a longtime starter who plays very well and wins most of his starts.

Also, food for thought:

Osgood is 8th all-time in playoff wins, and 4th all-time in playoff shutouts. His overall playoff stats are very similar to Brodeur's, except that Osgood's w/l record is far better. Osgood's playoff record is actually very similar to Roy's when you adjust for the number of games played.

People tend to consider the entire team's efforts when looking at wins or losses. Yes, the goalie is a big part of that, but so are the 20 or so players that skate in front of him. Going by wins alone isn't a compelling way to convince folks that a goalie is HOF caliber or worthy of number retirement.

It kinda sucks for Ozzie, though, because he's demonstrated that he's a legit goalie away from the Wings. I see him getting into the HOF, but there's no way in hell the number 30 will be hanging from the rafters in the next 20 years.