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Retire Osgood's #30?


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#21 Doc Holliday

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 02:19 PM

Do not retired his number.

In my opinion the categories for retiring a number should be as follows:

1. Made the HHOF
2. Played on the Wings for their entire career (there are a couple exceptions but very few)
3. Were legendary when they laced up the skates for the Wings

There should be no question, and in Chris Osgood's case there is no way he should have his number retired.

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#22 stevkrause

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 02:19 PM

For the Wings, it's a simple answer - If it can even be debated, the answer is no.

19 and 5 are the only two of this era that belong there...

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#23 Booster313

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 02:29 PM

Do not retired his number.

In my opinion the categories for retiring a number should be as follows:

1. Made the HHOF
2. Played on the Wings for their entire career (there are a couple exceptions but very few)
3. Were legendary when they laced up the skates for the Wings

There should be no question, and in Chris Osgood's case there is no way he should have his number retired.



Then how do you explain Sid Abel?

The simple fact that we are having this debate means that #30 should not be retired. Retiring a number should be a rare occurrence reserved for the absolute best to ever play for that team. The Red Wings are not an organization that retires numbers willy-nilly, unlike some teams.

Was there a debate for #19? No. Will there be a debate for #5? No. The next player on the team to have a chance at having his number retired, after Lidstrom, is Zetterberg.


Not Datsyuk?

What kind of color is red? Red is a warning, a declaration, a color that says I'm ready to do what it takes. Red is focused and driven because red doesn't like second place. So what kind of color is red? Their kind.

#24 Doc Holliday

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 02:31 PM

If he hadn't sucked the last 2 regular seasons, if he'd played anywhere near his 2008 form, then probly yes. But will people remember the brick wall that was Ozzy in '08, or the booze soaked sieve of '09 and '10?


Do people like to regurgitate made up lies?

Booster: did you ever see Sid Abel play?

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#25 mindfly

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 02:31 PM

Datsyuk needs to perform into his late 30's, sign a new contract when it's up and go way past 1000pts which can be hard, it's impossible to forsee what kind of performance pavel will bring every night at let's say 37 years of age.

#26 achildr1

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 02:31 PM

Osgood is currently tied at 314 with Jacques Plante for fourth all-time for most wins with a single team. The goalies ahead? Martin Brodeur, Tony Esposito, and Terry Sawchuk. He is one of only nine goaltenders to win 300 games with a single team, something that was not done by the following, among others:

Patrick Roy
Dominik Hasek
Glenn Hall
Grant Fuhr
Gump Worsley

Osgood's win total with the Wings alone would place him 19th on the All-time list instead of his current #10 ranking.

Osgood was one of the five best goaltenders in the world in his prime. Competing with, among others, three goaltenders who all are argued as the best ever.

This isn't Holmstrom or Draper we're talking about. Osgood for a long period was a top notch goaltender in the NHL.

He deserves his jersey number to be retired.

And as for you who say no HHOF? Are youf****** serious? A 400-win goalie and model citizen is not getting into the HHOF? Dino eventually got in even though he was blackballed by Bowman. He was good but not as good as Osgood.


Here's my Haterade...

Osgood would very simply never have had his rediculously inflated numbers on another team.

1. Osgood was never a top-3 goaltender in his prime or other wise. (listed below are better goaltenders ;) )
-90's: Roy, Hasek, Brodeur, Belfour, Vernon, Richter, Joseph, Vanbiesbrouck...then Osgood
-Early 00's: Roy, Hasek, Brodeur, Belfour, Joseph...then maybe Osgood.

It's widely considered a truth that Chris Osgood can be the goaltender that will be good enough to not screw up a Cup run, however he won't be one to steal many games along the way. I have been watching Chris Osgood for the majority of his career and would say that is absolutely true. In that 15 plus years I can count the number of games he has won essentially by himself on one hand. During that time his play was much more likely to be more closely related to why we lost a game rather than why we won. I have been more confidant with Hasek, Howard, Vernon, and even Legace in net, than I have been with Osgood in a big game.

Etup me, a HOF goaltender, should have been "great". And that player should have had some extended representation of that greatness for more than what could reasonably be called a fluke or 1 great year (Jose Theodore). Chris Osgood's best statiscal season came in a year that he only played half the games. His best playoff came when we iced the most effective defense and two-way play ive ever witnessed from the Wings or any other team. While I give him credit for being better than Dom that year and being very good, "great" is still a word I hesistate to use. That was the closest Ozzy ever came to "greatness". Hasek was great, Roy was unbelievably great, Vanbiesbrouck made the Finals with the Panthers and won a cup with the Rangers, Richter had several glimpses of big game greatness. Osgood...was the goalie the Wings won the Cup with. So were Hasek and Vernon and both were better goalies. They just weren't here as long. Chris has played behind argueably the best defences and offences of the last 15 years. The perenial Norris recipient has always been there for him. As well as Murphy, Fetisov, Konstantinov, Rafalski, and Chelios.


If he's voted in for sustained win totals and his rings, so be it. He would most likely end up in the Hall anyway in a bad year, maybe right next to Lindros and Gilmour.

Btw, in Osgood's "prime", we wanted and traded for a better goalie. Not only that, we didn't get anything for him at all. The Islanders claimed him on waivers I believe. We got more for Leino.

Edited by achildr1, 10 December 2010 - 02:39 PM.


#27 Howard He Do It?!

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 02:31 PM

Not Datsyuk?

Either one really.

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#28 Doc Holliday

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 02:38 PM

I have been more confidant with Hasek, Howard, Vernon, and even Legace in net, than I have been with Osgood in a big game.


2008.

Also, Osgood's numbers improved when he went to NYI and then got worse after coming back to Detroit.

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#29 Barrie

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 02:41 PM

If we won Game 7 of the 2009 Final, Ozzie would have won the Conn Smythe, and there would be a good argument that his number should be retired. I think a 2009 Cup would have been that important to his career, putting him at the next level as a goalie.

With that said, no I don't think Ozzie's #30 should be retired, but he, no doubt in my mind, should be in the Hall of Fame.
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#30 mindfly

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 02:41 PM

2008.

Also, Osgood's numbers improved when he went to NYI and then got worse after coming back to Detroit.

Because osgood had to try and become a butterfly goalie which he doesn't have the physique for nor the proper training from youth hockey etc, can't learn an old dog how to sit etc.

Edited by mindfly, 10 December 2010 - 02:41 PM.


#31 Barrie

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 02:45 PM

It's all up in the air, i'm not sure if they'll even retire Lidstrom's jersey...

#5 will be retired, no question. Lidstrom arguably could be the second best blueliner of all time.
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#32 Stolberg

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 02:49 PM

sawhuck should be the benchmark for whether or not a wings goalie's number should be retired



#33 Nev

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 03:04 PM

He wasnt a sieve in 2009 during the playoffs, people seem to quickly forget that because of his lack luster 2009 regular season and his abysmal 2010 outing.

I hadn't forgotten his 2009 playoffs. He was one win away from a Conn Smythe. But he still sucked big time that regular season.

The simple fact that we are having this debate means that #30 should not be retired


I hate that argument as to whether someones number should be retired. You know why? Because there will ALWAYS be debate. As dumb as it may be, there are people in this thread who think Nick Lidstrom should not have his number retired. Therefore there is now a debate. Therefore Lidstrom does not get his number retired, all because there are 1 or 2 idiots wherever you go.
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#34 Howard He Do It?!

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 03:08 PM

I hate that argument as to whether someones number should be retired. You know why? Because there will ALWAYS be debate. As dumb as it may be, there are people in this thread who think Nick Lidstrom should not have his number retired. Therefore there is now a debate. Therefore Lidstrom does not get his number retired, all because there are 1 or 2 idiots wherever you go.

That's not a debate. That's a couple of idiots spouting insanities. What is occurring in this thread is a debate.

Go ahead and post a thread asking whether Lidstrom should have his number retired and see the differences. They would be striking.

Edited by Howard He Do It?!, 10 December 2010 - 03:08 PM.

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#35 Booster313

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 03:33 PM

Do people like to regurgitate made up lies?

Booster: did you ever see Sid Abel play?


In all honesty no, but from everything I have read he wasn't the allstar that Gordie and Ted were and was basically retired as a formality because he played on the production line and was up in age at the time that it happened.

What kind of color is red? Red is a warning, a declaration, a color that says I'm ready to do what it takes. Red is focused and driven because red doesn't like second place. So what kind of color is red? Their kind.

#36 LOredwing248

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 03:33 PM

It's all up in the air, i'm not sure if they'll even retire Lidstrom's jersey... Stevie Y was a no brainer to retire, I personally think Lidstrom's should be retired though. As for osgood, maybe... but I don't think they will. Another question is who is going to take captain when Lidstrom actually does retire... i'm not trying to steal your thread, I just don't personally feel like making a new one for that.



Dude... I said I certainly think he'll go up. Calm down.


No you didn't

#37 stevkrause

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 03:41 PM

#5 will be retired, no question. Lidstrom arguably could be the second best blueliner of all time.

Arguably, because he is THE best of all time... there is always a lot of debate about this, but I would put Orr behind Lidstrom on said list...

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#38 Stolberg

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 03:47 PM

lol



#39 mindfly

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 04:05 PM

Arguably, because he is THE best of all time... there is always a lot of debate about this, but I would put Orr behind Lidstrom on said list...

I think only red wings fans would put Lidstrom over Orr, there's no question that Orr is the best Dman of all time even if he didn't play that long.

#40 chrisdetroit

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 04:08 PM

If we won Game 7 of the 2009 Final, Ozzie would have won the Conn Smythe, and there would be a good argument that his number should be retired. I think a 2009 Cup would have been that important to his career, putting him at the next level as a goalie.

With that said, no I don't think Ozzie's #30 should be retired, but he, no doubt in my mind, should be in the Hall of Fame.



That's an interesting idea. We didn't win the Cup in '09 because we only scored 1 goal in game 6 and 1 in game 7. In both games Ozzie only alowed 2 goals (each). Our losing in '09 was not Ozzie's fault but your argument is that it cost him immortality...
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