217 replies to this topic

[HankthaTank]

sawhuck should be the benchmark for whether or not a wings goalie's number should be retired

Yep. Not much else to be said here.

[chrisdetroit]

I think only red wings fans would put Lidstrom over Orr, there's no question that Orr is the best Dman of all time even if he didn't play that long.

Not true. In your mind maybe but if you ask all of the hockey writers, GM's coaches, etc. I guarantee that some of them will pick other defenseman over Orr. My point is that it is debatable so to say that "there is no question" is just wrong.

[mindfly]

It's the same as Gretzky is the best player to play the game, no question about that, still there will be some people putting lemieux over him for whatever reason.

Edited by mindfly, 10 December 2010 - 04:13 PM.

[WizardOfOz30]

Everyone keeps saying he doesn't deserve HHOF or his number being retired based on the past couple of seasons. I thought the point of making a decision like that was to look at his entire career numbers, not just the end of his career. I've been an Osgood supporter since he started here and I do think he deserves to have his number retired. If you look at the percentage of games he's won 54% (738 GP, 398 W) in comparison to Sawchuk 46% (971 GP, 447 W)it's actually better at the moment. Of course there's still time for that to change but looking at the numbers like that I say he's done very well in his career and as a Wing.

[Hockeytown0001]

Not sure about retiring it, but one thing is for certain - nobody will be wearing it again for a long time.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk]

My thinking is that Osgood won't be in the rafters simply because the Red Wings have such high qualifications. If Osgood's number was put up in the rafters it would then, inevitably, bring out the question of why he was chosen over other players - "if he got there, then why not Fedorov, why not Shanny?" If you compare his impact to that of those two players, it would be unfair that the honour not be theirs as well. The Red Wings have only chosen iconic players that have contributed to the culture of the franchise.

[newfy]

The rafters in the Joe are reserved for all time greats.

Howe the greatest most well rounded player all time

Lindsey and Abel were both part of one of the greatest lines all time that was part of a dynasty and arguably best team of all time in 52

Sawchuk is a top 5 goalie all time, maybe top 3

Yzerman is one of, if not the best leader in the history of the game and if he had not reinvented his game to win, he wouldd be much higher on the all time list.

Lidstrom will go up. I think its dumb to say he's better then Orr but he is at least op 5 all time.

Does Ozzie belong in the same breath as any of these players? No he wasn't even close. He won 2 cups as a starter and other then that was not anything very special, just a solid goalie on a great team. You dont get your number retired fr that

[ToMaToToWnWinGsFaN_24]

which teams did osgood play for other then detroit..
i know 1 is St Louis...cant quite remember the other one...

[soultrain]

Put that s*** up there...Ozzy deserves it.

which teams did osgood play for other then detroit..
i know 1 is St Louis...cant quite remember the other one...

islanders

[Doc Holliday]

Arguably, because he is THE best of all time... there is always a lot of debate about this, but I would put Orr behind Lidstrom on said list...

It's posts like these that make me lose faith in humanity.

Lidstrom was not better than Orr. Not by a long shot.

[gcom007]

I think Osgood's a lock for the Hall of Fame. They're not going to keep a 400 win goalie out with 3 Cup rings and multiple all star game appearances.

Rafters? Who knows. It's anyone's guess at this point. I think there's more reasons to think he'll be up there than reasons why he won't to be honest, but there still may not be enough reasons to get it up there.

What I think will be interesting to see is how the fan base regards Osgood 5-10 years after he retires. I've always felt with Osgood that it's a "you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone" situation. He's taken for granted around here, and many newer fans don't remember just how good he was in his prime. Maybe if he was more of a nutjob he'd get more accolades, but I think he's a bit to down to earth to get the media attention necessary while around to be considered a big time goalie. The reality of the matter is though that by all the numbers and all the Cups, he's one of the best goalies in the league over the last 20 years. He really is among an elite group of championship goalies with Roy and Brodeur.

Even Hasek only won one Cup, and he's an all time great...

[Barrie]

That's an interesting idea. We didn't win the Cup in '09 because we only scored 1 goal in game 6 and 1 in game 7. In both games Ozzie only alowed 2 goals (each). Our losing in '09 was not Ozzie's fault but your argument is that it cost him immortality...

Yea crazy eh? That's the thing that bothers me the most about losing in 2009, Ozzie missed out on a lot. It's a perfect example of how it's a team game.

Arguably, because he is THE best of all time... there is always a lot of debate about this, but I would put Orr behind Lidstrom on said list...

Wow! Orr in my opinion is the greatest player of all-time.

[McAwesome]

Hall of Fame for Osgood? I say yes, especially if he breaks the 400 win plateau. You don't win 3 Cups and 400 games by just being a "system" goalie, he earned everything he has achieved.

Retire his number? That's debatable, and because it is debatable it should not happen. Lidstrom's #5 will definitely be retired, and that will be the last one for a very long time, unless the Ilitches decide to finally raise #6 like they should have done a long time ago.

[stevkrause]

I think only red wings fans would put Lidstrom over Orr, there's no question that Orr is the best Dman of all time even if he didn't play that long.

And you just proved why that sentiment is wrong in your own statement...

It's posts like these that make me lose faith in humanity.

Lidstrom was not better than Orr. Not by a long shot.

what an asinine statement...

Yea crazy eh? That's the thing that bothers me the most about losing in 2009, Ozzie missed out on a lot. It's a perfect example of how it's a team game.


Wow! Orr in my opinion is the greatest player of all-time.

Fair enough, its all opinion, and I'm in no way deminishing Orr's ability... I don't know why everyone looks at it that way, if anything it just shows how highly I think of Lids... and back to the topic at hand, that just shows how and why he's the only no-brainer for number retirement on the team....

[Kronthewall55]

The simple fact that we are having this debate means that #30 should not be retired. Retiring a number should be a rare occurrence reserved for the absolute best to ever play for that team. The Red Wings are not an organization that retires numbers willy-nilly, unlike some teams.

Was there a debate for #19? No. Will there be a debate for #5? No. The next player on the team to have a chance at having his number retired, after Lidstrom, is Zetterberg.

You said it all with your first sentence. Not one person would argue yzerman sawchuck or gordie, and no one will when #5 goes up. No disrespect to osgood and what he's done here, but the rafters are such a extreme honor that even the likes of oz don't make the cut.

[Doc Holliday]

what an asinine statement...

Orr is a better defenseman than Lidstrom and only Red Wings fans will argue otherwise.

Sorry, there is a reason people label Orr in the top 5 ALL TIME.

[Jersey Wing]

Yes, he has met whatever 'requirements' are necessary.

I say yes and yes to him before Fedorov or Shanahan. Being a goalie in Detroit is it's own special ring of hell. It requires a far higher level of toughness.

Also, I disagree (respectfully as I understand their point) with those who think he needs to get into the hall of fame before being hoisted to the JLA rafters. For far too long people have said Osgood was nothing more than a product of the team in front of him or they somehow managed to win in spite of him. Ridiculous claims, utter hogwash. Was Dryden a product of those magnificent Canadiens teams in front of him? Was Fuhr a lucky passenger in Edmonton? Baloney and I think the Wings should be the ones to make that point crystal clear by retiring his #30. You're not retiring his number to prove a point, you're retiring it because Ozzie deserves it.

[titanium2]

Well the reason why people bring up the hall of fame standard is because of Red Kelly and Larry Aurie.

[thedisappearer]

I say yes and yes to him before Fedorov or Shanahan.

Wh-huh?

I don't see Feds getting 91 hung but… wh-huh?

[ACallToArms]

Lidstrom will be retired, but it won't be until a few years after he retires. Despite the contributions, Osgood is too polarizing amongst the fan base, unfortunately.