217 replies to this topic

[Doc Holliday]

Ok so Doc you think Ozzy became a better goalie and that his stats improved when he was in new york. He had a good year that was on par with most in Detroit, a .910 save percentage except for one basically and the he had a completely horrible one with a sub 900 save percentage.

You aren't even paying attention to the argument. My assertion was you were in left field when you assumed Osgood's career out of Detroit was downright awful. That is crap and the statistics show it.

You call that becoming a better goalie then he was with detroit? His average save % the past 6 years in detroit is .909 and the reason that is so low is because he had a bad season his last one there where he got WAIVED. If you really wanna say Ozzie improved when he had a .910 save percentage then so be it but I call that being his average self the past 7 or so years. The year after that in New York where you say his numbers improved he had a sub 900 save percentage.

His numbers improved the year he left Detroit. That goes against him "sucking" or playing "terribly" according to you. End of story.

I never said he was so much worse with the Isles in the first place anyways, I said his play wasn't as good which it wasn't as evidenced by his second year. He had an average year and a horrible one. Where is the improvement?

You used it to cite Osgood's poor play without the Wings, and compared it to the last two regular seasons.

[newfy]

You aren't even paying attention to the argument. My assertion was you were in left field when you assumed Osgood's career out of Detroit was downright awful. That is crap and the statistics show it.

His numbers improved the year he left Detroit. That goes against him "sucking" or playing "terribly" according to you. End of story.

You used it to cite Osgood's poor play without the Wings, and compared it to the last two regular seasons.

No I used it to say he got waived by the wings from the get go, thats all I said was that he got waived and you came in here talking about how he played way better when he left.

Man you are dense, Ozzie had an average year with the islanders and a horrible one.

And to top it all off show me where I said he was down right awful out of Detroit? Or is this one of those Doc argumens where he puts words in someone else's mouth then tries to act smart afterwards?

[CaliWingsNut]

I stated before I didn't believe Osgood to deserve number retirement. I do however support his retirement.

[eva unit zero]

Be kinda awkward not to put the winningest goalie in franchise history into the rafters, imo.

It's like.. here's the this goalie, he's played 14 seasons for us, some as a backup, most as a starter, he's been involved in 3 of our 4 cups, 2 as a starter, oh, and he's our winningest goalie ever and has a crowd chant dedicated to him... but oh wait, let's not put him in the rafters when he retires because he's got a bad rep that stuck around from 1 long range goal in a playoff series.

Incorrect. Sawchuk has more wins as a Wing in the regular season. Osgood is only the Wings' winningest PLAYOFF goalie.

[GoOzzieGo]

It seems most everyone is using Sawchuk as the benchmark as to whether Ozzie's number gets retired. Having never seen Sawchuk play, I can go only on statistics. And going just on statistics.....I'm not that impressed as to why his number is up there. He basically had 5 great seasons. His second stint with the Wings resulted in a sub-500 record over the course of those 7 years with less than impressive win totals in each of those years (not 1 season over 30 and only 2 with 25 or more). If 5 great years is the benchmark, then I can think of a number of Wings that should be up there.

[egroen]

It seems most everyone is using Sawchuk as the benchmark as to whether Ozzie's number gets retired. Having never seen Sawchuk play, I can go only on statistics. And going just on statistics.....I'm not that impressed as to why his number is up there. He basically had 5 great seasons. His second stint with the Wings resulted in a sub-500 record over the course of those 7 years with less than impressive win totals in each of those years (not 1 season over 30 and only 2 with 25 or more). If 5 great years is the benchmark, then I can think of a number of Wings that should be up there.

Those 6 years were the highest peak of any goalie until Hasek in Buffalo. Sawchuk would have 3 Vezinas, 3 runner-ups, at least 1 Conn Smythe (one playoff run he had a .62 GAA), 3 Cups and led the league 5 times in wins.

He had another Cup and a few more great seasons after that, but nothing approaching that stretch. Alcoholism was not his friend.

[jjd06e]

I have a hard time retiring a number of a guy who our coaches were always looking to replace. We were always splitting his time with other guys and acquiring new goalies to try and replace him.

Did you know Osgood only started more than 41 games (playing over half) 7 times in his 14 years on the Red Wings. He only started 50+ games (what I would constitute as full time starter would) only 3 times in his Red Wings career.

[newfy]

It seems most everyone is using Sawchuk as the benchmark as to whether Ozzie's number gets retired. Having never seen Sawchuk play, I can go only on statistics. And going just on statistics.....I'm not that impressed as to why his number is up there. He basically had 5 great seasons. His second stint with the Wings resulted in a sub-500 record over the course of those 7 years with less than impressive win totals in each of those years (not 1 season over 30 and only 2 with 25 or more). If 5 great years is the benchmark, then I can think of a number of Wings that should be up there.

Yeah the peak when Sawchuk played with the wings, he is arguably the best goalie all time. Don't look at numbers because the game has changed so much. Look at the Vezinas he won and the cups. Osgoods only hardware is 2 cups as a starter, yeah thats good but he was never really anything out of the ordinary. Sawchuk was the absolute best goalie in the league and dominated in his prime

[jjd06e]

It seems most everyone is using Sawchuk as the benchmark as to whether Ozzie's number gets retired. Having never seen Sawchuk play, I can go only on statistics. And going just on statistics.....I'm not that impressed as to why his number is up there. He basically had 5 great seasons. His second stint with the Wings resulted in a sub-500 record over the course of those 7 years with less than impressive win totals in each of those years (not 1 season over 30 and only 2 with 25 or more). If 5 great years is the benchmark, then I can think of a number of Wings that should be up there.

Sawchuk was a 11x all star, 4x vezina trophy winner. He won 3 cups with the Wings as a starter. He is widely considered one of the greatest goalies in NHL history. I really hope your post was a joke. If you want to use Sawchuk for a benchmark for Ozzie, Ozzie is never gonna make it. Sawchuk was a way better goalie. Sawchuk was the best goalie of his generation. He made 11 all star games and won 4 vezina to prove it. The best you could argue is Osgood was the 4th best goalie of his generation, and I wouldnt even have him that high. Ozzie only made 2 all star games and never won a vezina. The Hockey News had Sawchuk the 9th greatest player in NHL history in their top 100 players book (all positions, and 1st goalie listed).

Edited by jjd06e, 12 December 2010 - 12:07 PM.

[Booster313]

Yeah but you also compare relative to their peers. Sawchuk won the vezina 4 times and the calder, as well as being our number 1 during the dynasty years. He also played in a time when goalies hardly stopped the puck. He was by far the most elite goalie of his time

In fairness there was a lot less competition for those trophies back then. Sawchuck was elite no doubt and it's all semantics but he wasn't facing 100 mile and hour shots, players weren't as fast and weren't in near the shape they are now. Most shots came low on the ice. The point is not that Osgood is better than Sawchuck, he's not. It's nearly impossible to compare players of different eras because te game was different.

[jjd06e]

In fairness there was a lot less competition for those trophies back then. Sawchuck was elite no doubt and it's all semantics but he wasn't facing 100 mile and hour shots, players weren't as fast and weren't in near the shape they are now. Most shots came low on the ice. The point is not that Osgood is better than Sawchuck, he's not. It's nearly impossible to compare players of different eras because te game was different.

That is why you compare them to their peers...And while their was less goalies in the NHL, there wasnt less "competition" for those trophies. You had to compete to be a starter, not many open spots. Osgood likely would not have been a starter most of his career if we only had 6 teams now. Sawchuk was the best goalie of his generation, I dont care if there were 6, 10 or 30 teams, he would have been the best. You cant even make a serious claim that osgood was top 3 of his generation, Roy, Hasek and Brodeur were all clearly better goalies. I think Ed Belfour has a good argument to being better than Ozzie. There are also a couple others who could make an argument, including CuJo but I dont think Id give CuJo an edge given Ozzie playoff success.

[chrisdetroit]

Lidstrom will be retired, but it won't be until a few years after he retires. Despite the contributions, Osgood is too polarizing amongst the fan base, unfortunately.

Are you kidding? Lid's #5 jersey will be raised to the rafters the season after he retires just like Yzerman's was. Now I'm not comparing the 2 but "a few years after" WHAA?

[Paolino99]

14 season as a Wing
3 time Stanley Cup Winner
399 regular season wins (Is currently 10th all-time in wins by an NHL goaltender)
Played in 2 all star game

we need to talk about it?

HE DESERVES TO SEE HIS JERSEY RETIRED!

....and Larsson please shut up your toooooo big mouth!

[SouthernWingsFan]

I stated before I didn't believe Osgood to deserve number retirement. I do however support his retirement.

And I support beating the s**t out of you for making idiotic posts like this.

[newfy]

14 season as a Wing
3 time Stanley Cup Winner
399 regular season wins (Is currently 10th all-time in wins by an NHL goaltender)
Played in 2 all star game

we need to talk about it?

HE DESERVES TO SEE HIS JERSEY RETIRED!

....and Larsson please shut up your toooooo big mouth!

17 seasons as a wing
Selke trohpy
played a large role in 4 cups

That looks pretty much as impressive to me as what you said about Osgood, should we retired Kris Drapers jersey?

[WizardOfOz30]

I have a hard time retiring a number of a guy who our coaches were always looking to replace. We were always splitting his time with other guys and acquiring new goalies to try and replace him.

Did you know Osgood only started more than 41 games (playing over half) 7 times in his 14 years on the Red Wings. He only started 50+ games (what I would constitute as full time starter would) only 3 times in his Red Wings career.

The Wings have always had a goalie system, it seems that is what they try to do. They have 2 good goalies that can split the work and still keep the team successful.

[SouthernWingsFan]

17 seasons as a wing
Selke trohpy
played a large role in 4 cups

That looks pretty much as impressive to me as what you said about Osgood, should we retired Kris Drapers jersey?

Why do you care so much about showing the world refuting what a player has done and putting him down?

[Rice]

No. His number shouldn't be retired.

Sawchuk, Lindsay, Howe, Delvecchio, Abel, Yzerman, Lidstrom*, Osgood.

One of these is not like the others.

[Datsyerberger]

No. His number shouldn't be retired.

Sawchuk, Lindsay, Howe, Delvecchio, Abel, Yzerman, Lidstrom*, Osgood.

One of these is not like the others.

Won Lady Byng trophies.

Wow, that was easy. Are you saying Delvecchio shouldn't be retired because he won a 'wimpy' award?

Edited by Datsyerberger, 12 December 2010 - 02:48 PM.

[newfy]

Why do you care so much about showing the world refuting what a player has done and putting him down?

I'm not refuting what he has done and I am not putting him down. I have said he was a very solid goalie. I'm putting him down from having his jersey retired because I think it is pretty foolish that anyone could think he deserves it.

A lot of the same people here who say the wings don't need a third jersey there is too much tradition and a legacy behind it also think Ozzie should have his jersey retired.

If someone like Ozzie gets his jersey retired it will tarnish a legacy of all time great players that have their number retired by the wings. I would hate to see that happen because Detroit has a history of being great, and only the best of the best make it to the rafters