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Tomas Kopecky

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Well, I know most of you around here thought Tomas Kopecky was useless as a Wing, and would never become anything. Some of you may remember those of us who did think he could be good suggesting that he could or would likely develop into a second line power forward.

Just thought I would bring up some current stats:

32 GP, 3g-15a-18pt, tied for 96th in forward scoring (places him as a second line forward , offensively), 26 takeaways (tied for 16th)

Any thoughts?

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HES A BUM!!! no but seriously. He just didnt fit right with the Wings. I think the Wings are better off without him. I dont see anybody on our current roster that i would replace for him... except maybe hudler. <_<

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He has been lucky enough to play with the Hawks very best players for a lot of the year ie. Hossa,Toews,Kane, Sharp etc. I think anyone would eventually put up points given those line mates.

In games that I have been able to watch, he was always the weak link on their top line.

Not to take anything away from the guy, but it's not like he's improved tremendously since leaving us, he's just been given great line mates and ridiculous minutes on a depth depleted team.

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He's still terrible. He can't stay on his skates if he's touched and makes some bad decisions with the puck. I think any player can run into a few points when playing on the top 2 lines and getting power play time, but it doesn't mean he's a good player or that he's the one producing those points.

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Well, I know most of you around here thought Tomas Kopecky was useless as a Wing, and would never become anything. Some of you may remember those of us who did think he could be good suggesting that he could or would likely develop into a second line power forward.

Just thought I would bring up some current stats:

32 GP, 3g-15a-18pt, tied for 96th in forward scoring (places him as a second line forward , offensively), 26 takeaways (tied for 16th)

Any thoughts?

Kopecky got a lot of his points early in the season, when he was playing on the top line and Hossa was scoring at a torrid pace. In the last 25 games, Kopecky has ten points and is a -15, despite often playing top-six minutes with good linemates.

Edited by Crymson
dobbles, titanium2 and crotty99 like this

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I say he's still a bum.

Those points aren't really that impressive considering how he's played a lot of minutes with star forwards as his linemates. He should actually have more points.

Eva is already preparing such a thread for Hudler, once he gets traded.

uk_redwing likes this

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I say he's still a bum.

I say so, too. Further, I say that while eva is probably a nice guy, he's also got an unhealthy fixation on being "right". In this case--as with others--he's willing to twist the stats in order to have the chance to say "See? I was right."

No offense, eva, but there's no reason for that.

Edited by Crymson

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I say so, too. Further, I say that while eva is probably a nice guy, he's also got an unhealthy fixation on being "right". In this case--as with others--he's willing to twist the stats in order to have the chance to say "See? I was right."

No offense, eva, but there's no reason for that.

Didn't you start a Quincey thread a few weeks ago for the same reason?

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Kopecky is still useless. There's a reason nobody roots for him, not even Chicago fans. He's obviously good enough to play in the NHL and not get sent down, but I'd keep him as a 4th liner, 3rd liner on a bad team. He's benefitted from playing with the Hoss and such.

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I say so, too. Further, I say that while eva is probably a nice guy, he's also got an unhealthy fixation on being "right". In this case--as with others--he's willing to twist the stats in order to have the chance to say "See? I was right."

No offense, eva, but there's no reason for that.

Twist? What stats did I twist?

I simply pointed out that Kopecky was posting strong offensive numbers, and had an excellent takeaway stat (as that seems to be universally deemed by this board as the indicator of your defensive ability) and reminded everyone that he had been written off by this board.

I twisted nothing.

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Twist? What stats did I twist?

I simply pointed out that Kopecky was posting strong offensive numbers, and had an excellent takeaway stat (as that seems to be universally deemed by this board as the indicator of your defensive ability) and reminded everyone that he had been written off by this board.

I twisted nothing.

You noted Kopecky's points as if they indicated offensive ability, and you listed his position amongst all scorers for the same reason. I know you, eva; you're complete in your research. You no doubt knew that a huge number of Kopecky's points came in the early part of the season.

Also, +/- is an important indicator of defensive ability, and Kopecky's is horrible.

Didn't you start a Quincey thread a few weeks ago for the same reason?

Nope. I didn't have an initial opinion on Quincey.

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Twist? What stats did I twist?

I simply pointed out that Kopecky was posting strong offensive numbers, and had an excellent takeaway stat (as that seems to be universally deemed by this board as the indicator of your defensive ability) and reminded everyone that he had been written off by this board.

I twisted nothing.

Funny how you left out that he's -9. :ph34r:

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Funny how you left out that he's -9. :ph34r:

Plus minus is a worthless statistic. If Cleary dumps the puck in for a line change and goes to the bench, but Seabrook falls at the blue line, so Helm instead of heading to the bench goes and gets the puck, then puts in in front where Datsyuk scores...what happens statistically?

Or if a forward dumps the puck in near the goaltender and goes to the bench, but the goaltender has already passed the puck up to his teammates, and they end up scoring a goal? The player who made a huge error in judgement is spared a minus, but his teammates who had to try and make up for his mistake all get minuses, even the guy who just stepped on the ice.

Wonderful stat. Almost as useless as the GWG.

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Plus minus is a worthless statistic. If Cleary dumps the puck in for a line change and goes to the bench, but Seabrook falls at the blue line, so Helm instead of heading to the bench goes and gets the puck, then puts in in front where Datsyuk scores...what happens statistically?

Or if a forward dumps the puck in near the goaltender and goes to the bench, but the goaltender has already passed the puck up to his teammates, and they end up scoring a goal? The player who made a huge error in judgement is spared a minus, but his teammates who had to try and make up for his mistake all get minuses, even the guy who just stepped on the ice.

Wonderful stat. Almost as useless as the GWG.

He has ten points and is a -15 in 25 games. That's telling, eva.

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He has ten points and is a -15 in 25 games. That's telling, eva.

As I said before, plus/minus is a worthless statistic. It can be affected positively or negatively without a player having any effect on the play.

Datsyuk wins the faceoff, passes to Zetterberg, Z shoots and scores. Homer, Lidstrom, and Stuart all get pluses also. Most of the opposing team's players wouldn't have had any chance to affect the play, yet they get a minus.

Tell me Crymson, what makes it such a wonderful stat when there's no way of telling how much effect a player actually has on it?

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There isn't a forward on the Red Wings roster right now I would want replaced by Kopecky. Remember the fourth line of Kopecky-Draper-Maltby? I can't recall a more useless line.

Besides, what does that say about the Blackhawks if they are relying on Tomas frickin Kopecky to produce offensively?

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As I said before, plus/minus is a worthless statistic. It can be affected positively or negatively without a player having any effect on the play.

Datsyuk wins the faceoff, passes to Zetterberg, Z shoots and scores. Homer, Lidstrom, and Stuart all get pluses also. Most of the opposing team's players wouldn't have had any chance to affect the play, yet they get a minus.

Tell me Crymson, what makes it such a wonderful stat when there's no way of telling how much effect a player actually has on it?

I agree that +/- by itself isn't a tell all stat, but if you look at his team, he hasn't the second lowest +/- on his team.

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As I said before, plus/minus is a worthless statistic. It can be affected positively or negatively without a player having any effect on the play.

Datsyuk wins the faceoff, passes to Zetterberg, Z shoots and scores. Homer, Lidstrom, and Stuart all get pluses also. Most of the opposing team's players wouldn't have had any chance to affect the play, yet they get a minus.

Tell me Crymson, what makes it such a wonderful stat when there's no way of telling how much effect a player actually has on it?

Is there a way of telling how much effect a player actually has on a goal or assist?

Lidstrom shoots the puck. It dings off three guys in front of the net including Holmstrom's ass. It's Holmstrom's goal.

Cleary passes Datsyuk the puck as he's getting off the ice. Datsyuk passes the puck to Zetterberg for an easy tap in. Cleary gets an assist.

crotty99, Mitchmac33 and Nev like this

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As I said before, plus/minus is a worthless statistic. It can be affected positively or negatively without a player having any effect on the play.

Datsyuk wins the faceoff, passes to Zetterberg, Z shoots and scores. Homer, Lidstrom, and Stuart all get pluses also. Most of the opposing team's players wouldn't have had any chance to affect the play, yet they get a minus.

Tell me Crymson, what makes it such a wonderful stat when there's no way of telling how much effect a player actually has on it?

And there are times players are awarded assists without really doing anything to deserve them. There are times players deserve assists but don't get them. Hell, players can score goals without really doing anything. Hits, giveaways, and takeaways are all subjectively awarded.

Stats only tell part of the story. So what. You still only bothered to mention the stats that worked in favor of your argument. Somehow I doubt you'd have left it out if he was a +9.

Finnish Wing likes this

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He still gets trucked all over the ice, a few games ago Ott just crushed him, the dude is just the monumental example of a momentum killer

Edited by jollymania

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Kantskatesky, Kantfightsky,... just a product of the linemates he's played with this year. I would almost bet that Hossa or Toews, or any of the other skilled forwards that he has had the privilege of playing with, could knock a few pucks off myself and into the net, therefore making me a scoring threat of equal caliber. Just my thoughts though.

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