12/19 GDT: Stars 4 at Red Wings 3 (OT)

[Guest mindfly]

If Howard wins, I don't care what his stats are. He is slumping, but he is still doing plenty good and even outplayed your boy Price a few games ago.

Get over it.

No he didn't, price have a bad team in front of him especially the tiny montreal forwards, not much he can do, look at the GAA&SV% and see where Price is standing, he's great. Even though howard won that game he didn't outplay price in any stretch of the imagination.

Edited December 20, 2010 by mindfly

[titanium2 867]

Can't be easy living in denial.. "howard is zee besstt" "osgood is a HHoFer and still a great goalie"

Both Howard and Osgood are good but not great goalies. There. Will you stop now?

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

No he didn't, price have a bad team in front of him especially the tiny montreal forwards, not much he can do, look at the GAA&SV% and see where Price is standing, he's great. Even though howard won that game he didn't outplay price in any stretch of the imagination.

Who let fewer goals into their net that game? Howard was the better goalie of the two. I'll take the "worse" goaltender that wins over the "better" goaltender that loses. Call me crazy.

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

Honestly, your hate towards Osgood is getting annoying (not to mention your love for Howard). Howard lets in 4 goals that he should have saved and you say "the team let him down". Osgood get's scored on with 2 tips and a point blank shot and you say "not very good stats"...Seriously, it's about the quality of the shots. Those were 3 goals he had no chance at. NONE!

But whatever. Why you contiune to post here when 95% of the people here can't stand your posts is beyond me.

Osgood played an exceptional game. And for a goaltender who is not very big (guess that's his fault too, eh?) I think he does well being that's he's like 5ft 10.

Mindfly's love of Howard?

Edited December 20, 2010 by GMRwings1983

[Guest mindfly]

Both Howard and Osgood are goodmediocre not great goalies. There. Will you stop now?

Fixed for the truth.

Mindfly's love of Howard?

Yeah you've heard me in the GDT's rave about howard's awesome rebound-control and stick-handling right

[Zonly1 46]

Alright.

Howard's GAA: 2.62 = 22nd

Howard's SV% .911 = 24th

GAA and especially sv% is the only stats that show individually how good of a goalie you really are.

[Vladifan 680]

My love for howard? Both goalies are mediocre, probably one of the worst goalie tandems in the league, i'm looking at it objecively, they are NOT good, not osgood not howard, the only thing you can say for sure is the games when howard is in the net wings have a greater chance of winning but i still say he's a bad goalie with lots of flaws, every game the wings do win howard and osgood should buy dinner for the rest of the team more or less.

A long time ago in a galaxy far away, the University of Michigan Lambda Chi Alpha fraternity house used to have the same display in their front yard during homecoming, among other really humorous stuff. It was an ugly old man sitting tailor fashion in a little hovel of a house, with a total scowl on his face. The sign over the "house" said, "People are no damn good". That's you. Except in your case, it's the Detroit Red Wings. As far as I know they don't have that little sad man and his house on their lawn anymore and I don't have to read your s*** ever again.

[Jedi 1,865]

No he didn't, price have a bad team in front of him especially the tiny montreal forwards, not much he can do, look at the GAA&SV% and see where Price is standing, he's great. Even though howard won that game he didn't outplay price in any stretch of the imagination.

Aha, but by your line of reasoning, SV% is the most reliable stat for determining how well a goalie is playing. So by your logic, Howard DID in fact outplay Price in that game.

Boxscore, 12/10/10, Canadiens vs. Red Wings

Howard - .947% SV%

Price - .903 SV%

Not to mention the fact that Montreal outshot us 38-32, and basically controlled the entire 3rd period (outshot us 19-3). So, yes, actually, Howard did outplay Price.

[Guest Stolberg]

Mindfly's love of Howard?

it's like an elementary school kid picking on the girl he likes

[GoWings1905 2,694]

I feel so bad for Ozzie. He had some huge saves and deserved to win.

Brian Rafalski is very overrated and overpaid. Six million dollars for garbage defense and turnovers. The only time he looked remotely respectable on defense was with a team USA uniform on. Other than that, he's the least reliable d-man the Red Wings have in their own zone. Why Babcock kept going back to him so late in this game just blew my mind. He is the reason Chris Osgood doesn't have 400 wins right now.

Go back to New Jersey Rafalski. No one would notice your s***ty defense and turnovers there.

[Andy Pred 48 337]

Raffi, Hudler, Kronwall and Minard ($11.87m comb) to NJD for Kovy and Volchenkov ($10.9m comb)bring up Mursak and Smith.

Drapes stays in the press box for what his 6+ min of ice time is worth, i mean we may as well have an enforcer out there.

Lidstrom Ericsson

Stuart Smith

Salei Volchenkov

Kindl

Kovy Dats Mule

Bert Z Dan

Abbey Flip Mursak

Pat Helmer Drew

/Homer/Drapes

IR Mikey

Tongue in cheek guys ( but very workable cap wise)

Not enough old soviet guys in the current team, Pav needs a sniper on his wing. Sergei Mozyakin is only 29,one of the best players outside the NHL, probably happy in Russia thou. Lets hope the current roster can start to get back on track but i have a feeling that Rex is on his way out and that the front office are putting feelers out for potential suitors. Ive said it before a straight swap with the BlueJax for Filatov.

Edited December 20, 2010 by Andy Pred 48

[Zonly1 46]

Raffi, Hudler, Kronwall and Minard ($11.87m comb) to NJD for Kovy and Volchenkov ($10.9m comb)bring up Mursak and Smith.

Drapes stays in the press box for what his 6+ min of ice time is worth, i mean we may as well have an enforcer out there.

Lidstrom Ericsson

Stuart Smith

Salei Volchenkov

Kindl

Kovy Dats Mule

Bert Z Dan

Abbey Flip Mursak

Pat Helmer Drew

/Homer/Drapes

IR Mikey

Tongue in cheek guys ( but very workable cap wise)

Not enough old soviet guys in the current team, Pav needs a sniper on his wing. Sergei Mozyakin is only 29,one of the best players outside the NHL, probably happy in Russia thou. Lets hope the current roster can start to get back on track but i have a feeling that Rex is on his way out and that the front office are putting feelers out for potential suitors. Ive said it before a straight swap with the BlueJax for Filatov.

Take on Kovalchucks long term contract??? PASS! We already have a couple of long term contracts that really aren't working out so far.

[Guest Howard He Do It?!]

This place was more rational after the 2009 SCF Game 7 loss.

[achildr1 255]

This goalie debate is just rediculous. One of the worst tandems in the league? Take a hike. Mediocre at best? Please take your pills and go to sleep, hopefully your delusion will pas during the night.

Howard has had a bad month people! If you add his first month last year, he's had two bad months. The rest of the time he's been at least very good, sometimes great. In all seriousness, he deserved Hart consideration last year. Yet people like Mindfly think that a rookie goalie who deserved Hart consideration, was a finalist for the Calder trophy, and basically got us into the playoffs is "mediocre at best". Osgood has had more ups and downs than my toilet lid and will get blind love and hate from this community until he retires, understood. He is what he is, a good goalie who has barely ever been great on his own. That said, he looks to have actually put together a few decent games and may actually get his chance at playing enough games to get his groove back, the thing he whined about needing so much last year. If he gets it together and plays like we know is possible then we have one of the best tandems.

We have a very good young goalie and a 3 time Cup winning goalie as his backup, who plays better in the playoffs. We're fine. Lay off these guys, they're not Matt Stafford...

[wings_fanatic 677]

I went to the game and what I saw was rather simple and is pretty much what I thought even before this game :

- Ozzy played awesome... he made several big saves and from what I saw looks soooo confident in net... I would like to see him start vs. Vancouver as he deserves it with solid play that Jimmy has not been showing as much as

- The line combinations were horrible; honestly they had no chemestry. The only line that got any pressure consistantly was Pavs' line other than that the other lines were running around in our D zone most their shift. I think Babs needs to keep Pavs and Z together as you do not fix what is not broken:

Hank- Pavs- Bertuzzi

Franzen- Filps- Hudler

Homer- Helm- Cleary

Eaves- Abdelkator- Miller

I would like to see Bert play with Pavs and Z I think they would be really good together.

- Also, the Powerplays were brutal again so Id like Pavs and Z to stay together for the PP as well

- Rafi had a bad game obviously, but by no means does that mean he sucks... EVERYONE has bad games. This does go back to my point that I do not like the D pairings at all and I want to see them changed too

- Overall I thought the Wings did more good things tonight than not, and a few simple changes are needed to become more successful.

- Side note, those refs were PATHETIC... they made the lamest calls against the Wings and constantly let the stars interfere big time and hold...

[Zonly1 46]

This place was more rational after the 2009 SCF Game 7 loss.

Well, tonight, it was the Wings who performed pathetically, not the officials.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Do teams convert odd-man rushes on a 100-percent clip against Detroit or does it just feel like it?

It certainly does feel that way. Conversely, the Wings routinely fail to get a shot on goal with their odd man rushes. They had three or four today, all misses.

I don't have very many criticisms of the Wings, but odd man rushes, overtime, and 5-on-3s seem to be the things they're poor at, and inexplicably so given how talented their players are.

Although I definitely have criticism for their play tonight. Rafalski, make them beat you -- don't give the game away.

[eva unit zero 271]

Raffi, Hudler, Kronwall and Minard ($11.87m comb) to NJD for Kovy and Volchenkov ($10.9m comb)bring up Mursak and Smith.

So let's work this out.

On defense: We send New Jersey two skilled offensive defensemen who are currently part of one of the strongest top-four defense units in the league, including the core of our post-Lidstrom defense, and receive a solid defensive defenseman who is the number five defenseman, even playing behind rookie Matt Taormina.

At forward: New Jersey trades their best forward, and one of their three forwards who are both capable of being significant contributors and are under 30, and picks up one who is noticeably less skilled.

So Detroit gives up two of the league's most skilled offensive defensemen and a secondary forward to gain another high scoring forward and a defensive defenseman, while New Jersey gives up their top forward and a depth defenseman to gain offensive ability from the blueline.

New Jersey ends up going from little to almost no scoring at forward for their newfound offensive defensemen to take advantage of, while Detroit ends up giving up a huge portion of their puck movement on defense and adding to the logjam at forward.

Terrible trade idea.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

Well piss. Wanted to come home to Ozzie's 400th, not so. Oh well.

[atodaso 279]

I feel so bad for Ozzie. He had some huge saves and deserved to win.

Brian Rafalski is very overrated and overpaid. Six million dollars for garbage defense and turnovers. The only time he looked remotely respectable on defense was with a team USA uniform on. Other than that, he's the least reliable d-man the Red Wings have in their own zone. Why Babcock kept going back to him so late in this game just blew my mind. He is the reason Chris Osgood doesn't have 400 wins right now.

Go back to New Jersey Rafalski. No one would notice your s***ty defense and turnovers there.

i wish i could give you +1000 for this post, especially that last line.

I've felt this way for at least a year, maybe year and a half. For those defending rafalski, saying it's only one bad game, he's not so bad, etc., soon enough you will realise that the people saying he flat out sucks as a defenceman and is overpaid were in fact right all along.

bench him for a few games and put kindl in. he can't do any worse.

[VM1138 1,921]

I'm really tired of Wings fans calling the franchise doomed and tearing apart amazing players when they make a mistake.

Seriously, most spoiled fans in the world. December is always a bad month, Rafalski comes up huge for us often and rarely gets credit, makes an honest mistake trying to end the game with an aggressive push (something we criticise other players for not doing enough of) and suddenly is worthless. Get over yourselves, people.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Yeah, hearing reports that he has some sand in his __________________.

To get s*** on the way he is with the lines I'd have an entire beach in my ******.

He's not on the PP or PK anymore. He just hasn't been that good. Regardless of the point he got tonight.

Flip has been ten times better than Bert, yet Bertuzzi is now playing on the PP and EV with Zetterberg and Cleary while Flip got demoted to playing with Eaves and Abdelkader. Granted, that is probably an upgrade considering how Franzen and Bert were playing before.

Edited December 20, 2010 by Z and D for the C

[Konnan511 1,736]

Raffi, Hudler, Kronwall and Minard ($11.87m comb) to NJD for Kovy and Volchenkov ($10.9m comb)bring up Mursak and Smith.

Drapes stays in the press box for what his 6+ min of ice time is worth, i mean we may as well have an enforcer out there.

Lidstrom Ericsson

Stuart Smith

Salei Volchenkov

Kindl

Kovy Dats Mule

Bert Z Dan

Abbey Flip Mursak

Pat Helmer Drew

/Homer/Drapes

IR Mikey

Tongue in cheek guys ( but very workable cap wise)

Not enough old soviet guys in the current team, Pav needs a sniper on his wing. Sergei Mozyakin is only 29,one of the best players outside the NHL, probably happy in Russia thou. Lets hope the current roster can start to get back on track but i have a feeling that Rex is on his way out and that the front office are putting feelers out for potential suitors. Ive said it before a straight swap with the BlueJax for Filatov.

So go from one of the strongest D cores to the worst D core? Have NJD throw in a first this year and a second next year and some prospects, then we might start talking.

[Guest Howard He Do It?!]

You can say Rafa is overpaid but to say he flat out sucks is completely ignorant and has no basis in reality. Make no mistake about it, Rafa is still a top notch defender that any number of teams would die to have. There was a reason why the Wings suffered without Rafa on the point when he was out with injury and it wasn't because he sucks. The Wings were worse without him and that is an undebatable fact.

It's one loss. The sky is still blue and the grass is still green. Don't act otherwise.

[Andy Pred 48 337]

To eva unit zero and Konnan511, I take it that you can't translate the , tongue in cheek, part of the reply?

the only part Im serious about is trading Hudler for Filatov, and if we ever got the chance to get Mozyakin

we should jump at it.