12/19 GDT: Stars 4 at Red Wings 3 (OT)

[clutchngrab 12]

I seriously can't get over how this Wings team just got beat by a team on the latter half of a back to back.

And more suprising that that - outworked

seems like the way to beat the Wings, at least lately, is to forecheck the hell out of them. They tend to get flustered and turn the puck over. It was pretty much the formula Dallas used tonight, and LA a few nights ago.

I've noticed that too. Of course both teams played tight defense and both teams have better goalies - so there it is.

[egroen 384]

You can say Rafa is overpaid but to say he flat out sucks is completely ignorant and has no basis in reality. Make no mistake about it, Rafa is still a top notch defender that any number of teams would die to have. There was a reason why the Wings suffered without Rafa on the point when he was out with injury and it wasn't because he sucks. The Wings were worse without him and that is an undebatable fact.

It's one loss. The sky is still blue and the grass is still green. Don't act otherwise.

Agreed, having Lidstrom for so long has utterly destroyed so many Detroit fans' perception of defense. Lidstrom is an all-time defensive freak, yet he has become the standard for good defense amongst fans. Not really a bad thing, but definitely unrealistic. You could have Keith, Chara and Pronger playing for Detroit, and fans would be ready to bloody hang them, for defensive lapses.

Rafalski, believe it or not, is 'good' defensively. Not compared to Lidstrom, but compared

To any other defenseman in the league who can also put up 50+ points. He is worth his salary.

[clutchngrab 12]

If the Stars don't have to trade Richards they will go far in the playoffs this year.Wings are sucking big time right now and doesn't seem like it's going to get better.I would seriously consider trading Filppula.Franzen isn't playing good even with the goal he had tonight.I don't see much from this team this year.Start of the end is happening in my opinion.

I shudder to think where we would be if Cleary hadn't rediscovered himself, and Datsyuk wasn't Datsyuk. Flip, Franzen and that little smurfy dude have completely underperformed. I would love to see a package of Flip and Hudler for a legit scorer. Franzen is obviously way to streaky and doesn't come to play half the time.

[BuckeyeWingsfan80 209]

Raffi, Hudler, Kronwall and Minard ($11.87m comb) to NJD for Kovy and Volchenkov ($10.9m comb)bring up Mursak and Smith.

Drapes stays in the press box for what his 6+ min of ice time is worth, i mean we may as well have an enforcer out there.

Lidstrom Ericsson

Stuart Smith

Salei Volchenkov

Kindl

Kovy Dats Mule

Bert Z Dan

Abbey Flip Mursak

Pat Helmer Drew

/Homer/Drapes

IR Mikey

Tongue in cheek guys ( but very workable cap wise)

Not enough old soviet guys in the current team, Pav needs a sniper on his wing. Sergei Mozyakin is only 29,one of the best players outside the NHL, probably happy in Russia thou. Lets hope the current roster can start to get back on track but i have a feeling that Rex is on his way out and that the front office are putting feelers out for potential suitors.

Umm how about no....

Ive said it before a straight swap with the BlueJax for Filatov.

And now why exactly would the BJs trade a player with Filatov's potential to the best team in the division? Do you REALLY think this is even anywhere near the realm of possibility to be considered?

besides, having seen Filatov play, he's great when he has space, and he had space for about a week this year. He sucks when he's rushed to the point that he has quit on the play multiple times and has been sent down to their AHL affiliate. The Wings don't need that type of player at all.

Beyond that, I'm not even really sure he's going to be any better than Nik Zherdev. And he's just as big a liability on the defensive end too.

[titanium2 867]

[Datsyerberger 279]

You know, the Wings actually played a pretty good game today. They got their fair share of chances, finished decently.. I mean, sure, Helm missed an open net, but we know he has hands of stone anyhow, and the play was started solely by him... it shifted momentum as a bonus. Ozzie played a good game. Overall, the Wings looked fairly good.

However, I would particularly like to thank Rafalski for singlehandedly costing Ozzie career win #400 by a stupid giveaway, a penalty in overtime (wtf are you doing with your stick that close to the legs of one of the biggest divers in the league?) and poor timing on joining the rush in OT.

Thanks, Raffi.

Edited December 20, 2010 by Datsyerberger

[achildr1 255]

You can say Rafa is overpaid but to say he flat out sucks is completely ignorant and has no basis in reality. Make no mistake about it, Rafa is still a top notch defender that any number of teams would die to have. There was a reason why the Wings suffered without Rafa on the point when he was out with injury and it wasn't because he sucks. The Wings were worse without him and that is an undebatable fact.

It's one loss. The sky is still blue and the grass is still green. Don't act otherwise.

Bravo. Thank you. Saved me five minutes of my life.

[dragonballgtz 273]

You know, the Wings actually played a pretty good game today. They got their fair share of chances, finished decently.. I mean, sure, Helm missed an open net, but we know he has hands of stone anyhow, and the play was started solely by him... it shifted momentum as a bonus. Ozzie played a good game. Overall, the Wings looked fairly good.

However, I would particularly like to thank Rafalski for singlehandedly costing Ozzie career win #400 by a stupid giveaway, a penalty in overtime (wtf are you doing with your stick that close to the legs of one of the biggest divers in the league?) and poor timing on joining the rush in OT.

Thanks, Raffi.

After his give away and the penalty I am surprised Babs let Raf play any more during the last minutes of OT.

[Din758 371]

After his give away and the penalty I am surprised Babs let Raf play any more during the last minutes of OT.

ya why the hell would babs put our second best defensive defensemen who can also work the point on the ice in OT?

soft penalty in OT, refs were trigger happy all night.

[BlueMonk 102]

I was at the game and obviously we left disappointed. The place was ready to explode for Ozzie to get his 400th. Overall, Ozzie was so-so. He made some spectacular saves during that 4 on 3 they killed and I thought maybe the tide was turning their way, but no.

Way too many turnovers and too much trouble getting the puck out of their own zone. Credit Dallas for some of that. The Holmstrom-Datsyuk-Franzen line looked very good most of the night. Rafalski did not. Lidstrom has dropped to a +1 on the season and I think that's not a fluke. The hat trick the other night was amazing, but he's making a lot of uncharacteristic mistakes the past couple of weeks. Not coincidentally, the team's record reflects it.

[Konnan511 1,736]

Blaming Rafalski for the loss is like blaming Buckner for losing the Red Sox a world series title, or for blaming Bartman for the Cubs monumental collapse. The Wings had the entire OT to lose the game for Ozzie.

[CopenhagenWing 38]

However, I would particularly like to thank Rafalski for singlehandedly costing Ozzie career win #400 by a stupid giveaway, a penalty in overtime (wtf are you doing with your stick that close to the legs of one of the biggest divers in the league?) and poor timing on joining the rush in OT.

Thanks, Raffi.

While I wasn't too impressed with Rafalski's bad pass as he was not pressured at all, he didn't trip anybody. That was all Franzen, refs called the wrong player.

[Guest mindfly]

I was at the game and obviously we left disappointed. The place was ready to explode for Ozzie to get his 400th. Overall, Ozzie was so-so. He made some spectacular saves during that 4 on 3 they killed and I thought maybe the tide was turning their way, but no.

Way too many turnovers and too much trouble getting the puck out of their own zone. Credit Dallas for some of that. The Holmstrom-Datsyuk-Franzen line looked very good most of the night. Rafalski did not. Lidstrom has dropped to a +1 on the season and I think that's not a fluke. The hat trick the other night was amazing, but he's making a lot of uncharacteristic mistakes the past couple of weeks. Not coincidentally, the team's record reflects it.

This is what i've been saying all along, lidstrom can't be a +1 and abdelkader a +11 or whatever he is, lidstrom's main thing isn't getting points but playing solid D against the other teams' top lines.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

While I wasn't too impressed with Rafalski's bad pass as he was not pressured at all, he didn't trip anybody. That was all Franzen, refs called the wrong player.

Agreed.

It's kind of amazing how the refs can supposedly see the trip, but somehow confuse Rafalski with Mule.

[wings_fanatic 677]

I blame Lidstrom having a lower plus/ minus on Babcock's defense pairings. I DO NOT like these pairings one bit and I have said this countless times. One of the qualities that bugs me about Babcock is that he is sooooo hard headed- - not changing these D units and not playing Ozzy more (He is still the best coach in the world despite that). But Stu is just too slow to be playing with Nick and they don't seem to know what each other wants to do in the D zone. Also, after last nights game, it is apparent that Rafi and Ericson is a massive defensive liability waiting to happen and that ultimately costed them the game.

I would like to see Babs test out some new D units:

Lidstrom- Kronwall

Stuart- Rafalski

Ericson- Salai

- Lidstrom has been good this year and I do not notice THAT MANY mistakes on his part... you have to keep in mind that quite a few of the goals have been goals that Howard should have been able to stop the past few weeks, which is hurting Nick and the team

- Kronners has been SO SHARP this year and I think he and Nick would be an awsome top D unit

- Stuart and Rafalski should be good because Rafi can move the puck, while Stu provides the needed Defensive defense for that unit

- that would be a solid enought 3rd pairing

[GoWings1905 2,694]

You can say Rafa is overpaid but to say he flat out sucks is completely ignorant and has no basis in reality. Make no mistake about it, Rafa is still a top notch defender that any number of teams would die to have. There was a reason why the Wings suffered without Rafa on the point when he was out with injury and it wasn't because he sucks. The Wings were worse without him and that is an undebatable fact.

It's one loss. The sky is still blue and the grass is still green. Don't act otherwise.

Rafalski doesn't "suck", but I'm sticking by my claim that he's overpaid and the worst defensive d-man on the team. Sure, he's terrific on the point and he usually makes a great first pass out of the zone, but he's very weak defensively. Lidstrom, Stuart, Kronwall and even Salei are consistently more reliable in their own zone and it's really kind of inexcuseable that Babcock would keep going back to the Rafalski/Ericsson pairing so late in a close game. That defense pairing needs to end because both are turnover prone and neither can position themselves well enough defensively to avoid getting pinned in their own zone.

The most frustrating part to me about Rafalski is the fact he was unbelievable defensively at the Olympics with Suter against the best talent in the world. However, he has never consistently shown that with the Red Wings to justify six million dollars for some nice breakout passes and assists on the powerplay. I think it's fair to blame the loss yesterday on Rafalski -- his gaffes led directly to the tying and winning goal. Ozzie deserved way better than that effort.

[Nightfall 871]

Blaming Rafalski for the loss is like blaming Buckner for losing the Red Sox a world series title, or for blaming Bartman for the Cubs monumental collapse. The Wings had the entire OT to lose the game for Ozzie.

I have to agree.

Last I checked, human beings make mistakes. Look at all the mistakes that the Wings have taken advantage of. Some of these mistakes have made coaches and players on other teams look foolish. Yet, they don't wallow in self pity or penalize themselves. They get back on the horse and keep going. In the course of a season, even the best players are going to turn the puck over and/or make key mistakes in a game. Even Lidstrom has done this, even in his Norris trophy winning days.

True fans of the team will stand behind their team and players to the end. Not push them under the bus when they make a mistake.

Edited December 20, 2010 by Nightfall

[GoWings1905 2,694]

I have to agree.

Last I checked, human beings make mistakes. Look at all the mistakes that the Wings have taken advantage of. Some of these mistakes have made coaches and players on other teams look foolish. Yet, they don't wallow in self pity or penalize themselves. They get back on the horse and keep going. In the course of a season, even the best players are going to turn the puck over and/or make key mistakes in a game. Even Lidstrom has done this, even in his Norris trophy winning days.

True fans of the team will stand behind their team and players to the end. Not push them under the bus when they make a mistake.

I dislike when people try to define what a true fan is. Should we all hold hands at the Joe and be proud of lackluster efforts just because we are all Red Wings fans? Everyone makes mistakes, I fully understand that. However, it's a discussion board and there are instances where it's perfectly fine to be upset especially when those mistakes cost the Red Wings a game and one of their teammates a milestone victory he deserved yesterday. It's not like this is the first time Rafalski has turned the puck over or been poor defensively. He's getting paid as a first pairing d-man and I expect a better effort than what Rafalski has shown for that price tag.

If true fans can't voice their displeasure with their team's or a player's performance, then there doesn't seem like much of a reason to ever watch sports.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

While I wasn't too impressed with Rafalski's bad pass as he was not pressured at all, he didn't trip anybody. That was all Franzen, refs called the wrong player.

I thought they called him for a hook.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I thought they called him for a hook.

Box score has it as two for tripping Ribiero, which is how I remember it. Mule had his stick down around Ribiero's skates, and it's not gonna take much for that guy to fall down.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

I have to agree.

Last I checked, human beings make mistakes. Look at all the mistakes that the Wings have taken advantage of. Some of these mistakes have made coaches and players on other teams look foolish. Yet, they don't wallow in self pity or penalize themselves. They get back on the horse and keep going. In the course of a season, even the best players are going to turn the puck over and/or make key mistakes in a game. Even Lidstrom has done this, even in his Norris trophy winning days.

True fans of the team will stand behind their team and players to the end. Not push them under the bus when they make a mistake.

Not this s*** again.

[Guest mindfly]

I have to agree.

Last I checked, human beings make mistakes. Look at all the mistakes that the Wings have taken advantage of. Some of these mistakes have made coaches and players on other teams look foolish. Yet, they don't wallow in self pity or penalize themselves. They get back on the horse and keep going. In the course of a season, even the best players are going to turn the puck over and/or make key mistakes in a game. Even Lidstrom has done this, even in his Norris trophy winning days.

True fans of the team will stand behind their team and players to the end. Not push them under the bus when they make a mistake.

I would agree with this IF i were from detroit and felt it was "my" team, but now im in sweden across the pond and doesn't have that feeling (well i'm as tight as you can be with a team living this far away i guess), i just want them to perform good and the way they can, when they don't i get pissed off, simple as that.

Edited December 20, 2010 by mindfly

[clutchngrab 12]

I have to agree.

Last I checked, human beings make mistakes. Look at all the mistakes that the Wings have taken advantage of. Some of these mistakes have made coaches and players on other teams look foolish. Yet, they don't wallow in self pity or penalize themselves. They get back on the horse and keep going. In the course of a season, even the best players are going to turn the puck over and/or make key mistakes in a game. Even Lidstrom has done this, even in his Norris trophy winning days.

True fans of the team will stand behind their team and players to the end. Not push them under the bus when they make a mistake.

I wonder if you would say the same thing if they were sub-500 and out of the playoffs. Of course you wouldn't. Besides who wants to go to read posts by a bunch of cheerleaders? That would get boring in a heartbeat.

Edited December 21, 2010 by clutchngrab

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

I just compare wings to flyers all the time, the 7 losses flyers have were tight games and could have gone either way while detroit has gotten blown out several times in their 8 losses.

On cue, Philly gets blasted tonight.

[Guest mindfly]

On cue, Philly gets blasted tonight.

HURRAYYY.. now if they are gonna resemble wings' lately they should go 3-4-2 or something and not go for 5 straight wins again

Edited December 21, 2010 by mindfly