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What is the purpose of the Game Winning Goal statistic?


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#1 BCM

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 09:15 PM

What is the Game Winning Goal statistic meant to tell us?

If you look at the scoring summary of the Wings 4-1 victory over the Wild, we see that Cleary gets credit for the GWG.

1st Period
Detroit 4:38, Henrik Zetterberg 13 (Niklas Kronwall, Johan Franzen)
Detroit 8:59, Danny Cleary 16 (Valtteri Filppula)
2nd Period
Detroit 5:30, Kris Draper 1 (Niklas Kronwall, Jonathan Ericsson)
Detroit 13:50, Tomas Holmstrom 10 (power play) (Henrik Zetterberg, Nicklas Lidstrom)
3rd Period
Minnesota16:20, Brent Burns 10 (power play) (Martin Havlat, Patrick O'Sullivan)

However, there is nothing to suggest Cleary's goal was any more clutch or more important than any of the Wings other goals. So we can learn from this box score that the GWG isn't meant to convey clutch or importance. So what is the purpose of the GWG stat and what information is it meant to provide us?










Edited by BCM, 27 December 2010 - 09:32 PM.


#2 CenterIce

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 09:40 PM

Not all the goals really do count the same. You only need one more than the other team. You never know when in a game that wlll happen. GWG keeps track of who that is.

#3 BCM

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 09:52 PM

Not all the goals really do count the same. You only need one more than the other team. You never know when in a game that wlll happen. GWG keeps track of who that is.

What do you mean that not all goals count the same? NHL rules stipulate that any goal scored in regulation or overtime counts as one goal.




#4 CenterIce

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 10:19 PM

Anything over the one goal advantage to win is not needed, just gravy.

#5 BlakKy

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 10:24 PM

The purpose of the stat (like a lot of others) is just for fun.

#6 BCM

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 10:43 PM

The purpose of the stat (like a lot of others) is just for fun.

That seems to be the case. But why have the stat if it doesn't measure clutch or importance?




Anything over the one goal advantage to win is not needed, just gravy.

I'm not sure I understand. Can you please elaborate?




#7 CenterIce

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 11:04 PM

One team scores 2, so the other team needs to score 3 to win. If they score 5, it just pads the stats. You only need to score one more goal then your opponent to win.

#8 Buppy

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 11:04 PM

What is the Game Winning Goal statistic meant to tell us?
...

Better question is why do you care?

If you don't like it, don't look at it.

#9 CenterIce

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 11:06 PM

That is the significance to the GWG stat. It states who hot the one goal needed to win the game. That easy.

#10 BCM

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 11:55 PM

One team scores 2, so the other team needs to score 3 to win. If they score 5, it just pads the stats. You only need to score one more goal then your opponent to win.

That is correct. Winning 1-0 nets you just as much a victory as winning 5-0. But it does little to explain why the GWG stat exists. Since we know through the Wings/Wild example that the GWG stat isn't meant to measure clutch or importance, it raises the question of what it is meant to measure.




That is the significance to the GWG stat. It states who hot the one goal needed to win the game. That easy.

In the case of the Wings/Wild game, which single goal was needed to win the game? Since the Wild scored one, doesn't that mean the Wings need two goals to win the game? If true, then they needed more than one goal to win the game.

#11 Datsyerberger

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 12:02 AM

Well, ultimately, if a player is credited with a GWG, it means they broke a tie in the game. Whether it was a goal in OT or the first goal past a time in a blowout, said player is ultimately the one who broke the stalemate that resulted in the final score.

While it's certainly a 'just for fun' stat to some extent, I think if a player has a relatively high # of GWGs as compared to their goalscoring pace, it can say something about them.
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#12 Gordie Howe hat trick

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 12:06 AM

Don't you understand what it is for? It is an extra comparison stat for fantasy hockey. The statisticians of the NHL saw it coming and thus created it. GENIUS!!! :lol: :yowza: :hehe:
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#13 BCM

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 01:27 AM

Well, ultimately, if a player is credited with a GWG, it means they broke a tie in the game. Whether it was a goal in OT or the first goal past a time in a blowout, said player is ultimately the one who broke the stalemate that resulted in the final score.

Are you sure? If you're right, then Zetterberg must have gotten the GWG - despite the stat sheets which say that Cleary was awarded the GWG. Furthermore, according to the NHL's official website, Cleary would get credited with the GWG.

1st Period
Detroit 4:38, Henrik Zetterberg 13 (Niklas Kronwall, Johan Franzen)
Detroit 8:59, Danny Cleary 16 (Valtteri Filppula)
2nd Period
Detroit 5:30, Kris Draper 1 (Niklas Kronwall, Jonathan Ericsson)
Detroit 13:50, Tomas Holmstrom 10 (power play) (Henrik Zetterberg, Nicklas Lidstrom)
3rd Period
Minnesota16:20, Brent Burns 10 (power play) (Martin Havlat, Patrick O'Sullivan)


While it's certainly a 'just for fun' stat to some extent, I think if a player has a relatively high # of GWGs as compared to their goalscoring pace, it can say something about them.

Well since we've established that the GWG isn't meant to measure clutch or importance, what would it say about a player if he had an unusually high proportion of GWGs?




Don't you understand what it is for? It is an extra comparison stat for fantasy hockey. The statisticians of the NHL saw it coming and thus created it. GENIUS!!! :lol: :yowza: :hehe:

Well, any new stats are good for fantasy hockey. But what is the stat supposed to convey? It's obviously not meant to measure clutch or important goals. What is it's purpose?




#14 Konnan511

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 01:37 AM

Is this thread for serious?
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#15 Jesusberg

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 02:06 AM

It means guys are f****n' clutch... oh wait, this is serious?

#16 eva unit zero

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 02:46 AM

It means about as much as +/- does.
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#17 Shady Ultima

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 04:07 AM

The GWG is a simple stat that shows which goal scored won the game.

Zetterberg scored, but Burns goal in the 3rd negated that goal. Thus, 1 - 1

Cleary's goal, which was #2 for the Wings kept it so that the Wings won. The other goals after are just extras.

If the other two had not scored, Cleary would still have the GWG as he scored the goal that made the difference in the game. If the Wild scored again, Draper would have had the GWG.

The GWG can be scored in the first minute of the game, or the very last. It's only apparent after the game is over.

#18 stormboy

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 05:06 AM

like plus-minus, i think the GWG stat is easily altered by fluke effects, but isn't entirely meaningless. sure, you're going to have situations like this one with cleary where he just happened to end up in the right spot in the goal-scoring order. then you have, say, OT winners or goals that break a late tie that are obviously deserving of the GWG stat.

i suppose you could make more complicated requirements -- like, for example, a GWG HAS to actually break a tie after which the other team doesn't score. so, in the example given by OP, no one would get a GWG because zetterberg broke a tie but cleary had the goal that put the winning team up by one goal. you'd have a lot less GWGs, but it would be a more telling stat, maybe. still, if dude breaks a 0-0 tie a minute in to the game and his team goes on to win 5-0, it still wasn't a "clutch" goal -- he just got lucky because his goalie got a shutout.

like i said, i feel the same way about GWG as i do about plus-minus -- you have to take the stat with a large grain of salt, but that doesn't mean it's completely worthless.
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#19 Din758

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 07:43 AM

GWG should only be used if the goal is scored in OT, or the last goal in the last few minutes of the game that puts your team ahead. Maybe put a stipulation for the goal along the lines of last 3-5 minutes of the game, and game must be tied when goal is scored (obvi). The goal must also be the winner.

I def agree that the GWG in the first period is garbage, and no way shows the clutch factor in the player.
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#20 Stolberg

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 09:03 AM

since when was the GWG stat supposed to indicate how "clutch" someone is







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