460 replies to this topic

[WorkingOvertime]

I'm hoping Tatar has a long, productive career with the Wings, but I didn't like that celebration st all. It was a "me" display on a team that wins by playing a "we" game. I have never seen any of the current Wings try to draw attention to themselves the way he did last night.

How was that celebration about him? He grabbed the Winged Wheel- to me this symbolizes he was extremely excited to score his first NHL goal with the Wings team.

[Stolberg]

[VM1138]

He even turns to show the crowd the winged wheel. I don't know if we should read so deep into it and say it's a sign of "the logo on the front, not the name on the back," but it's possible. He was probably just excited and wanted to grab onto something. We've never heard of him being hard to play with, I just got really excited when he did. We could use somebody who shows emotion.

[Jesusberg]

Tatar grabbed the logo on the front, not the name on the back. Not a selfish celebration at all.

The Sauce has arrived.

[Yak19]

Everyone celebrating Tatar's goal listen up we just lost to the Islanders.

Way to take care of business Wings.

[Yzermania]

Everyone celebrating Tatar's goal listen up we just lost to the Islanders.

Way to take care of business Wings.

oh no! you mean the Wings are not gonna go undefeated the rest of the season?!?!!
The Isles have taken out the top 2 teams in the league (in OT/SO) in the last few days. The Wings are still first in the league, so stop taxin' their gig so hardcore, cruster.

[Yak19]

oh no! you mean the Wings are not gonna go undefeated the rest of the season?!?!!
The Isles have taken out the top 2 teams in the league (in OT/SO) in the last few days. The Wings are still first in the league, so stop taxin' their gig so hardcore, cruster.

[wings_fanatic]

You know I am getting a little tired of Babcock cutting Jimmy Howard all the slack in the world. No, the loss was not per say all Howard's fault, but the job of a goalie is to stop a puck, even during times when the team defense is not at its best. Obviously goalies are not going to be perfect when the defense is weak, but Howard is just letting in too many goals the past month and a half or so; it seems to be a trend for him to let in 4 goals these days. My problem is that Ozzy has been looking REALLY solid in net, but then gets the bench for Howard, who is playing average at best. I see that Howard is getting the nod again tomorrow against Philly which makes me mad because I think Ozzy deserves some games here.

All biased aside, I know there are Ozzy fans and Howie fans, but I think Babs should be rotating them and, as the year progresses, give the better goalie more starts, and then use that to determine the goalie for the playoffs. At this rate, I feel every time the other team shoots it is going to go in on Howie (that is what I felt with Ozzy last year) so unless Howie starts outperforming Ozzy, Id say he should be the go to guy somewhere down the line

[gcom007]

You know I am getting a little tired of Babcock cutting Jimmy Howard all the slack in the world. No, the loss was not per say all Howard's fault, but the job of a goalie is to stop a puck, even during times when the team defense is not at its best. Obviously goalies are not going to be perfect when the defense is weak, but Howard is just letting in too many goals the past month and a half or so; it seems to be a trend for him to let in 4 goals these days. My problem is that Ozzy has been looking REALLY solid in net, but then gets the bench for Howard, who is playing average at best. I see that Howard is getting the nod again tomorrow against Philly which makes me mad because I think Ozzy deserves some games here.

All biased aside, I know there are Ozzy fans and Howie fans, but I think Babs should be rotating them and, as the year progresses, give the better goalie more starts, and then use that to determine the goalie for the playoffs. At this rate, I feel every time the other team shoots it is going to go in on Howie (that is what I felt with Ozzy last year) so unless Howie starts outperforming Ozzy, Id say he should be the go to guy somewhere down the line

I'm not convinced Babcock isn't aware and in process of working something out. If you listen to Babcock's interviews after some of Howard's games lately, you get the sense that he's sending a message to Howard without directly referencing Howard. You might notice that he'll oftentimes make reference to other teams goaltending being strong and the importance of getting strong goaltending from your team so you have a chance to win, all while never saying much of anything about Howard, praise or otherwise. He simply implies that the oppositions goaltending is outplaying our goaltending. After being more pointed with Osgood last year in the press and seeing the mess that stirred up, perhaps he's learned to tone it down and be less direct, but I have little doubt that he's not sending a message and if this keeps up, Osgood will get more starts.

As I've said before, while Howard hasn't been horrible lately and can rarely carry the blame for the losses entirely, he's simply not playing at all close to a level we know he was capable of at least last year. Maybe the pucks just aren't hitting him and that's that, but at some point, you have to look at the other side of that statement and acknowledge and deal with the fact that when the pucks aren't hitting him, they're going in the net more often than they ought to be. If it wasn't becoming such a consistent issue, literally in almost half of his games now going back 20 starts, it wouldn't be worth discussion. It'd be the lame knee-jerk crap from fairweather fans. But he's been consistently inconsistent lately. Going by Babcock's tone and comments, I'd venture to guess that he's got a couple more weeks to sort it out before we start seeing a lot more of Osgood.

[Outsider]

I'm not convinced Babcock isn't aware and in process of working something out. If you listen to Babcock's interviews after some of Howard's games lately, you get the sense that he's sending a message to Howard without directly referencing Howard. You might notice that he'll oftentimes make reference to other teams goaltending being strong and the importance of getting strong goaltending from your team so you have a chance to win, all while never saying much of anything about Howard, praise or otherwise. He simply implies that the oppositions goaltending is outplaying our goaltending. After being more pointed with Osgood last year in the press and seeing the mess that stirred up, perhaps he's learned to tone it down and be less direct, but I have little doubt that he's not sending a message and if this keeps up, Osgood will get more starts.

As I've said before, while Howard hasn't been horrible lately and can rarely carry the blame for the losses entirely, he's simply not playing at all close to a level we know he was capable of at least last year. Maybe the pucks just aren't hitting him and that's that, but at some point, you have to look at the other side of that statement and acknowledge and deal with the fact that when the pucks aren't hitting him, they're going in the net more often than they ought to be. If it wasn't becoming such a consistent issue, literally in almost half of his games now going back 20 starts, it wouldn't be worth discussion. It'd be the lame knee-jerk crap from fairweather fans. But he's been consistently inconsistent lately. Going by Babcock's tone and comments, I'd venture to guess that he's got a couple more weeks to sort it out before we start seeing a lot more of Osgood.

Not gonna happen, gcom. Great post, though.

[Reilly]

In the modern era, the Red Wings have never had a goalie that has been known for carrying teams or "stealing" games. The one exception was Hasek, but all he had to do was stop the puck when he needed to, and hey what do you know, they won a Stanley Cup. He didn't have to play like he did in Buffalo, though. He actually complained about not seeing enough shots in some games as a Red Wing.

In 2003, they signed Curtis Joseph who was known for stealing games and carrying teams. And look how that turned out. He was average and cost $8 million.

The Red Wings style of play - puck possession and controlling the play - is horrible for evaluating their own goaltender. They see little shots and are expected to come up big after seeing no action for a long period of time. I mean, Howard has played over 100 games in the NHL and we still don't even know what kind of goalie he is. Is he actually good? Well, he made some big saves here and there. So I guess?

The Wings' style of play means they can win with average goaltending, which means management will never overpay for an elite goaltender ever. They'd rather place their money into defense and forward depth. This is why players like Chris Osgood and Kris Draper keep hanging around. They're cheap and serviceable. Heck, the Red Wings even tried to win with Mannyf****** Legace in net as a starter.

What I'm saying is until management decides it's time to acquire a goalie like Ryan Miller, Henrik Lundqvist, or Robert Luongo, whether through trades or the draft, fans should expect games like the Islanders to occur.

Edited by Reilly, 02 January 2011 - 01:17 AM.

[VM1138]

Except for Miller, I hope the Wings never break the bank on an "elite" goalie. They are simply too unpredictable. I like the way they do things, finding two capable goalies. I just wish Ozzie would get more starts, just because we need to have both these guys ready at a moment's notice.

[ACallToArms]

In the modern era, the Red Wings have never had a goalie that has been known for carrying teams or "stealing" games. The one exception was Hasek, but all he had to do was stop the puck when he needed to, and hey what do you know, they won a Stanley Cup. He didn't have to play like he did in Buffalo, though. He actually complained about not seeing enough shots in some games as a Red Wing.

In 2003, they signed Curtis Joseph who was known for stealing games and carrying teams. And look how that turned out. He was average and cost $8 million.

The Red Wings style of play - puck possession and controlling the play - is horrible for evaluating their own goaltender. They see little shots and are expected to come up big after seeing no action for a long period of time. I mean, Howard has played over 100 games in the NHL and we still don't even know what kind of goalie he is. Is he actually good? Well, he made some big saves here and there. So I guess?

The Wings' style of play means they can win with average goaltending, which means management will never overpay for an elite goaltender ever. They'd rather place their money into defense and forward depth. This is why players like Chris Osgood and Kris Draper keep hanging around. They're cheap and serviceable. Heck, the Red Wings even tried to win with Mannyf****** Legace in net as a starter.

What I'm saying is until management decides it's time to acquire a goalie like Ryan Miller, Henrik Lundqvist, or Robert Luongo, whether through trades or the draft, fans should expect games like the Islanders to occur.

Well said, sir. Red Wings goaltender has always been a thankless job. I think Howard fits in well here, and like you said the jury is still out about whether or not he's a "great" goalie. I do wish they'd switch between him and Ozzie more. I like having two sharp goalies going into the playoffs. If Howard gets injured, it would not be good to put a rusty Ozzie in the net.

[Barrie]

I've been away a few days, this was the first time I got a chance to watch Tatar's goal celebration. My question is, what's the big deal? I have no problem with it! It's the first goal of his career, he should be excited! Good for him, I hope it's the first of many!

[paulwoodsfan]

I have nothing against celebrating a goal. However, it looked to me as if he was not celebrating that "we scored," he was celebrating that "I scored." I realize I'm a lone wolf on this.

[Hockeymom1960]

I have nothing against celebrating a goal. However, it looked to me as if he was not celebrating that "we scored," he was celebrating that "I scored." I realize I'm a lone wolf on this.

Yes, you are. And if he is, who gives a rats butt. He was excited and wanted everyone to know he got it lol. I wish a lot of the Wings would show this kind of passion.

Edited by Hockeymom1960, 03 January 2011 - 06:04 PM.

[titanium2]

I have nothing against celebrating a goal. However, it looked to me as if he was not celebrating that "we scored," he was celebrating that "I scored." I realize I'm a lone wolf on this.

Don't worry. Someday he might be a full fledged Red Wing having learned the system of how to celebrate goals as boringly as he can.

[paulwoodsfan]

Don't worry. Someday he might be a full fledged Red Wing having learned the system of how to celebrate goals as boringly as he can.

I'll take boring celebration and a winning team over hot-dogging any day. One of the reasons the Wings have been so successful is that they are a "team-first" organization. It started with Stevie and has been passed on through the lineup for the past 20 years. I'm not saying one celebration indicates he's a selfish player, but I hope he learns quickly that when you score, you celebrate with your teammates and don't make a point of showing everyone that you got the goal.

[Rivalred]

If he gets hurt, I will have your head

[TheUkrainian]

I don't understand why some people are making such a huge deal about Tatar. Think about it; if you were 21 and scored your first ever goal, would you not celebrate? Hell I know I would, and I'm almost 22. It's just like Mickey (and other members here) said, it's the logo on the front, not the name on the back. Good for him, I wish more Wings would celebrate a bit more than just the raising of the hands haha. Maybe not quite Ovie style, but a bit more than just "yay, I scored, again..."


Off Topic: did anyone watch NHL Network between the 2 IIHF games? They did the top 10 best shootout(I think) goals and Datsyuk's deke in the SO against Minnesota was number 1. Awesome.