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Norris turning into "best offensive defenseman"?


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#1 Cevari

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 11:29 AM

Article

So NHL.com picks Byfuglien as the frontrunner for the Norris trophy this season, with the runners-up being Lids and Letang. These three also happen to be 3/4 of the top 4 defensemen in points so far. By what I've seen of Atlanta this season they play a system where you could argue it's actually four forwards and one defenseman, so I am extremely sceptical of calling Buff the best D in the league. Even the evidence presented in the article seems to be all points and goals and production, with perhaps a casual mention of +/-, which as we all know isn't exactly an accurate stat to determine a players worth defensively. The part about Byfuglien literally has no mention whatsoever of his defensive skills (or lack thereof). For the record, I'm not taking a stance on the defensive abilities of the three mentioned here, just pointing out that NHL.com doesn't even seem to care.

So what do you think? Is the Norris all about the offense these days (or has it always been), and should it be?

#2 redwingfan19

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 11:40 AM

this is what i've been saying all along. all they care about now is who gets the most points..
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#3 Shaman

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 11:44 AM

this is what i've been saying all along. all they care about now is who gets the most points..

Thats why Mike Green has been taking them home so much lately :ph34r:

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#4 Buppy

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 12:12 PM

Buffy will probably get nominated, but he'll need a lot more than a 2 point edge to beat out Nick.

But yeah, pretty much since Orr, the Norris tends to go to great two-way defensemen. Kind of like the Selke goes to great two-way forwards. I really doubt Nick would have 6 if he wasn't so good offensively. Coffey probably wouldn't have any.

But remember it is 'best defenseman', not 'best defender'. Looking at the overall efficacy of the player, it's hard to argue that Buffy hasn't been one of the most effective defensemen this year. Same with Green the last two years.

#5 Nev

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 12:19 PM

NHL.com is good for highlights, 3 articles a day about Crosby, an uh, that's about it.
"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#6 Travis

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 12:41 PM

I was actually thinking about this yesterday while watching the '08 Finals. They kept talking about Zetts and Pav were both nominated for the Selke, which got me thinking - 'why not a best offensive defensemen award?' then I remembered that's basically the Norris now. <_<

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#7 GMRwings1983

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 12:43 PM

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This is not the best defenseman in the NHL.
According to my profile, my reputation is excellent. LOL.

#8 titanium2

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 12:46 PM

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This is not the best defenseman in the NHL.


Oooh... :ph34r:

#9 Jesusberg

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 12:49 PM

He'll be nominated, and he should be... but I doubt he'll actually win. Last I checked he had a 4 minutes of PK time TOTAL. All they're doing is highlighting his accomplishments, and there's nothing wrong with that. If the NHL was all about offensive d-men (like someone else said) then Mike Green would have won the last two years. Right now I think either Letang or Lidstrom is taking it, but obviously that could change as the season plays out.

#10 Joey v3.4

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 12:56 PM

NHL.com is good for highlights, 3 articles a day about Crosby, an uh, that's about it.


NHL.com has been featuring Datsyuk a lot lately too, for the first time in his entire career.

Buff will get nominated, but he isn't as great of a defenseman as some other guys. While being the defensive point leader shoes you in for a nomination, I think the league would have to be on Crack to select Buff as 1st overall.

Then again, the top three vote getters in the All Star Balloting are from Pittsburgh. That right there shows you just how much of a joke the NHL is becoming. Crosby should be there, sure, I'll conceed. Letang should be one OF the defenseman, but not THE top guy. And Fluery being selected as the top goaltender, especially considering Thomas play this year, is the result of massive fan boy bandwagon vote raping.

When I saw Letang jump above Lidstrom, and Fleury jump above guys like Thomas, Garon, Quick, Price, etc..... Fleury is 7th in GAA, 15th in Save percentage, and 6th in wins, so without breaking the top 5 of any relevant category, he somehow took #1 in All Star voting.

I don't mean to derail the thread, I'm just pointing out how it's "ALL" becoming a big joke :)

For me, there are 82 games, and 4 rounds of playoffs. All the trophies, events, and extra stuff has become nearly worthless to me.

I say, let the fair weather fans have their fun. Lidstrom is Hall of Fame bound, has the most cups of any active defenseman, and at 41 is the second highest scoring D-man in the league.

Norris or not, we know who is best.
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#11 titanium2

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 12:58 PM

If the NHL was all about offensive d-men (like someone else said) then Mike Green would have won the last two years.


We keep mentioning this but things change slowly but progressively. I mean, look at the Selke trophy. Last year Datsyuk had takeaways and perhaps the "hard minutes argument" but didn't have any significant PK time. I really don't know if he deserved it or not I'm just saying that the standards are changing.

EDIT: "The hard minutes argument" -- http://www.coppernbl...n-the-nhl-tough

Edited by titanium2, 09 January 2011 - 01:02 PM.


#12 brett

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 01:03 PM

lids for byng too

http://www.nhl.com/i...s.htm?id=548743

#13 egroen

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 01:29 PM

Byfuglien should need to beat Lidstrom by at least 40 pts to be considered the best defenseman in the game. He's not even the best on his own team.
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#14 TheOwl

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 02:09 PM

How could anyone have watched last nights game and not think Lidstrom should win the Norris. He's been doing it all year long. Points should be almost irrelevant.

#15 kook_10

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 02:21 PM

lids for byng too

http://www.nhl.com/i...s.htm?id=548743


When I saw that I was concerned that they would give him the Byng to screw him out of another Norris.

works every time


#16 Andy Pred 48

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 02:32 PM

i do like that lil swede that plays alongside Buf in Atlanta thou, what an 8th round steal he's turning out to be.
hope our young Almquist turns out the same.
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#17 Yzermania

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 02:44 PM

Aren't the awards decided by various sports writers/press? If so, why would people be saying "if the nhl is all about pts., mike greene would have won"? The league IS all about points and goals, and have made it very clear with all the rule changes over the years.

#18 Jesusberg

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 02:53 PM

We keep mentioning this but things change slowly but progressively. I mean, look at the Selke trophy. Last year Datsyuk had takeaways and perhaps the "hard minutes argument" but didn't have any significant PK time. I really don't know if he deserved it or not I'm just saying that the standards are changing.

EDIT: "The hard minutes argument" -- http://www.coppernbl...n-the-nhl-tough


Agreed with the shift, but until a purely offensive defenseman wins the Norris, I'm going to assume it still goes to the best all-around defender. Nominations are where it ends so far.

#19 mjtm77

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 12:07 AM

Ive been saying all along that the nhl would consider big Buff. Looks like iam right Shaman964.
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#20 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 12:09 AM

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This is not the best defenseman in the NHL.

I tried so hard not to, but......

Lol
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