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Norris turning into "best offensive defenseman"?

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So NHL.com picks Byfuglien as the frontrunner for the Norris trophy this season, with the runners-up being Lids and Letang. These three also happen to be 3/4 of the top 4 defensemen in points so far. By what I've seen of Atlanta this season they play a system where you could argue it's actually four forwards and one defenseman, so I am extremely sceptical of calling Buff the best D in the league. Even the evidence presented in the article seems to be all points and goals and production, with perhaps a casual mention of +/-, which as we all know isn't exactly an accurate stat to determine a players worth defensively. The part about Byfuglien literally has no mention whatsoever of his defensive skills (or lack thereof). For the record, I'm not taking a stance on the defensive abilities of the three mentioned here, just pointing out that NHL.com doesn't even seem to care.

So what do you think? Is the Norris all about the offense these days (or has it always been), and should it be?

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this is what i've been saying all along. all they care about now is who gets the most points..

Thats why Mike Green has been taking them home so much lately :ph34r:

NHL.com reporters make ESPN reporters look like experts, I never read anything posted on NHL.com other than recaps because just like Bettman it seems everyone on the writing staff for their site have never seen a game of hockey before in their lives.

wingnut40, teebo and Nev like this

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Buffy will probably get nominated, but he'll need a lot more than a 2 point edge to beat out Nick.

But yeah, pretty much since Orr, the Norris tends to go to great two-way defensemen. Kind of like the Selke goes to great two-way forwards. I really doubt Nick would have 6 if he wasn't so good offensively. Coffey probably wouldn't have any.

But remember it is 'best defenseman', not 'best defender'. Looking at the overall efficacy of the player, it's hard to argue that Buffy hasn't been one of the most effective defensemen this year. Same with Green the last two years.

Drake_Marcus likes this

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I was actually thinking about this yesterday while watching the '08 Finals. They kept talking about Zetts and Pav were both nominated for the Selke, which got me thinking - 'why not a best offensive defensemen award?' then I remembered that's basically the Norris now. <_<

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He'll be nominated, and he should be... but I doubt he'll actually win. Last I checked he had a 4 minutes of PK time TOTAL. All they're doing is highlighting his accomplishments, and there's nothing wrong with that. If the NHL was all about offensive d-men (like someone else said) then Mike Green would have won the last two years. Right now I think either Letang or Lidstrom is taking it, but obviously that could change as the season plays out.

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NHL.com is good for highlights, 3 articles a day about Crosby, an uh, that's about it.

NHL.com has been featuring Datsyuk a lot lately too, for the first time in his entire career.

Buff will get nominated, but he isn't as great of a defenseman as some other guys. While being the defensive point leader shoes you in for a nomination, I think the league would have to be on Crack to select Buff as 1st overall.

Then again, the top three vote getters in the All Star Balloting are from Pittsburgh. That right there shows you just how much of a joke the NHL is becoming. Crosby should be there, sure, I'll conceed. Letang should be one OF the defenseman, but not THE top guy. And Fluery being selected as the top goaltender, especially considering Thomas play this year, is the result of massive fan boy bandwagon vote raping.

When I saw Letang jump above Lidstrom, and Fleury jump above guys like Thomas, Garon, Quick, Price, etc..... Fleury is 7th in GAA, 15th in Save percentage, and 6th in wins, so without breaking the top 5 of any relevant category, he somehow took #1 in All Star voting.

I don't mean to derail the thread, I'm just pointing out how it's "ALL" becoming a big joke :)

For me, there are 82 games, and 4 rounds of playoffs. All the trophies, events, and extra stuff has become nearly worthless to me.

I say, let the fair weather fans have their fun. Lidstrom is Hall of Fame bound, has the most cups of any active defenseman, and at 41 is the second highest scoring D-man in the league.

Norris or not, we know who is best.

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If the NHL was all about offensive d-men (like someone else said) then Mike Green would have won the last two years.

We keep mentioning this but things change slowly but progressively. I mean, look at the Selke trophy. Last year Datsyuk had takeaways and perhaps the "hard minutes argument" but didn't have any significant PK time. I really don't know if he deserved it or not I'm just saying that the standards are changing.

EDIT: "The hard minutes argument" -- http://www.coppernblue.com/2010/5/3/1455867/the-best-forwards-in-the-nhl-tough

Edited by titanium2

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How could anyone have watched last nights game and not think Lidstrom should win the Norris. He's been doing it all year long. Points should be almost irrelevant.

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i do like that lil swede that plays alongside Buf in Atlanta thou, what an 8th round steal he's turning out to be.

hope our young Almquist turns out the same.

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Aren't the awards decided by various sports writers/press? If so, why would people be saying "if the nhl is all about pts., mike greene would have won"? The league IS all about points and goals, and have made it very clear with all the rule changes over the years.

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We keep mentioning this but things change slowly but progressively. I mean, look at the Selke trophy. Last year Datsyuk had takeaways and perhaps the "hard minutes argument" but didn't have any significant PK time. I really don't know if he deserved it or not I'm just saying that the standards are changing.

EDIT: "The hard minutes argument" -- http://www.coppernblue.com/2010/5/3/1455867/the-best-forwards-in-the-nhl-tough

Agreed with the shift, but until a purely offensive defenseman wins the Norris, I'm going to assume it still goes to the best all-around defender. Nominations are where it ends so far.

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Ive been saying all along that the nhl would consider big Buff. Looks like iam right Shaman964.

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Article

So NHL.com picks Byfuglien as the frontrunner for the Norris trophy this season, with the runners-up being Lids and Letang. These three also happen to be 3/4 of the top 4 defensemen in points so far. By what I've seen of Atlanta this season they play a system where you could argue it's actually four forwards and one defenseman, so I am extremely sceptical of calling Buff the best D in the league. Even the evidence presented in the article seems to be all points and goals and production, with perhaps a casual mention of +/-, which as we all know isn't exactly an accurate stat to determine a players worth defensively. The part about Byfuglien literally has no mention whatsoever of his defensive skills (or lack thereof). For the record, I'm not taking a stance on the defensive abilities of the three mentioned here, just pointing out that NHL.com doesn't even seem to care.

So what do you think? Is the Norris all about the offense these days (or has it always been), and should it be?

:lol: Buff doesn't play a minute of PK time. Voters discounted Green for that reason (the rules of the trophy) and I certainly hope they'll do the same fur Buff.

Bowman laughed at Buff and called him a rover in a recent article discussing Lidstrom's play this season.

Buffy will probably get nominated, but he'll need a lot more than a 2 point edge to beat out Nick.

But yeah, pretty much since Orr, the Norris tends to go to great two-way defensemen. Kind of like the Selke goes to great two-way forwards. I really doubt Nick would have 6 if he wasn't so good offensively. Coffey probably wouldn't have any.

But remember it is 'best defenseman', not 'best defender'. Looking at the overall efficacy of the player, it's hard to argue that Buffy hasn't been one of the most effective defensemen this year. Same with Green the last two years.

The official NHL description for the trophy, as given to the voters, states it's for the best all-around defenseman. I forget where I found that... I remember digging it up when I was arguing with Shoreline about Mike Green back when he first became a contender.

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:lol: Buff doesn't play a minute of PK time. Voters discounted Green for that reason (the rules of the trophy) and I certainly hope they'll do the same fur Buff.

Bowman laughed at Buff and called him a rover in a recent article discussing Lidstrom's play this season.

The official NHL description for the trophy, as given to the voters, states it's for the best all-around defenseman. I forget where I found that... I remember digging it up when I was arguing with Shoreline about Mike Green back when he first became a contender.

What puts Buff over Green is that his contribution is so much more important to ATL than Green's was to the Caps. And I think that's what they are looking at with Buff.

I myself has stated that he would win the Norris if he continues to play like this and I am not surprised by this NHL article.

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Dustin Byfuglien isn't even the best defenseman on his team

Tobias Enstrom has 3 points less and is far better defensively

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I promise you guys Byfuglien wont have the Norris at the end of the year. I think its Lids' to lose right now, but watch out for Letang.

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I wouldn't necessarily disagree that in winning the Norris, you must have a fair amount of offensive skill as that is what get's the voters' attention. But as Mike Green can attest to, you can't lead the league in points as a defenseman & almost completely suck in your own zone & expect to win it. Buff will continue to get attention, possibly wind up in the top 3, but even if he is he will be a distant third.

In the scheme of things though, voting for the Norris is alot more cut & dry than voting for the Selkie which really is the award that goes to the best defensive forward that at least scores 20 goals in a season.

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