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Matt

Nabokov claimed by NYI, refuses to report, suspended

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And that's the beauty of it. Holland keeping the douchebags that are just out to spite us out of it. If a team claims him, they'd better really want him, and he'd better really want them. :thumbup:

esteef

:thumbup: If I was a GM and a Goalie wants the Wings and I can get this goalie but I know he would rather not play for me. I just bought a ghost.

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Guest Crymson

1. I think Osgood will be fine when he comes back. The fact that he was playing through the injury at all makes me think that he's going to come back strong. It might take him a few games to get sharp, but he's been looking good this year.

2. I like Jimmy and I have a lot of faith in his ability to develop into a real-deal starting goalie, but I don't think he's ready for the playoffs and I don't see how you can suggest he played "great" last year. Even the Osgood haters around here were calling for Osgood to go in! He had his moments where he came up big, but he had far too many moments where he utterly and completely dropped the ball. You don't become a playoff goalie overnight. I've maintained all along that it was just too much for him early on.

If we're able to keep Nabokov, it's really nothing but a positive in the short run. I trust him more than Howard in the playoffs at this current point in time and if indeed Osgood isn't able to get things going, it'll be good to have Nabokov around.

That said, I don't think this is good for Howard. He's struggled this year and this is hardly a vote of confidence in him. Do you think for a second that they would have made this move last year when he was playing great? Really? If he wasn't letting in 4 goals a game on a regular basis and getting pulled, do you really think Holland would make a move now? Even with the injuries, I highly doubt it. I really can't help but think this might be the first sign that Howard will not be returning next year. Think about this...

If he can't beat out Nabokov for the starting role after struggling last playoffs and then struggling this season, they're not going to want to throw a lot of money at him. Same can be said if Osgood ends up starting in the playoffs, but if Nabokov starts and does well, they'll sign him and Osgood up before Howard and Osgood. Howard's not going to take a backup role for a million or less now, but Osgood will.

One of two things has to happen for Howard to stick around: he either has to play great from here on out and steal the show and show some semblance of success in the playoffs, or Nabokov has to be terrible.

And personally, I'd rather hang tight until Osgood comes back and let them fight it out and keep them both around next year at reasonable prices. Having three goalies around is never a good idea. Even if they're all decent guys, the simple "two net" thing will get frustrating real quick.

You hate Howard. We get it.

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He has a no move clause, meaning he MUST stay on the roster if claimed. No team will take him unless they really want him.

Which, it is crazy but I really think that is the San Jose Sharks. It is just cohesive for them to go and grab him back. I know I know.... (provide 'what do you know?!' repsonses now)

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He has a no move clause, meaning he MUST stay on the roster if claimed. No team will take him unless they really want him.

I don't think that is necessarily true, I think there might be several teams that see $260K for the rest of the season as a pretty good investment (even if you don't really want Nabokov) just to keep him from going to the Wings. Not everyone has the cap/roster space problems that the Wings have.

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You hate Howard. We get it.

Asked about the Nabokov signing, Howard said: "That's out of my hands. That's up to management and what they think. If he can help us, he can help us."
Asked whether he thought Nabokov, 35, was signed as insurance or to push him, Howard said: "I don't need anyone to push me. I push myself. I work hard in practice every single day, and I just go out there and try to win games for the guys."


Read more: Wings know Nabokov a long way from joining team | freep.com | Detroit Free Press http://www.freep.com/article/20110121/SPORTS05/101210437/Wings-know-Nabokov-a-long-way-from-joining-team#ixzz1BiEnTq2D

This is why I called this a bulls*** move earlier. I don't think it's fair to Howard and I don't like the way he's been set up. I'm not angry at Howard for his play this year, though it's frustrating. And while I don't hate Babcock, you could say it angers me to consider the manner in which he's dealt with Howard. I've said all along that he's being set up to be run down and I didn't like it. I think he's got a load of potential and I feel like they've squandered it, and any way you shake it, to me this move feels like they've given up on Howard.

And I don't like it one damn bit.

Howard's the first guy to come through the organization that I think has the attitude and skill to be the long-term goalie since the last long-term goalie, Chris Osgood. I think it's total bulls*** that Babcock tried to fast track his development at the risk of him crashing, when he really should know better. Countless other young goalies who burn out fast tell the tale. As the pressure mounts and they're not mentally acclimated enough to the NHL game to deal with it, things fall apart. I don't think it was fair to Howard at all and I don't like it one bit.

Whether he moves to another team or never returns to a consistent form, I think it will be an absolute shame.

And the only animosity I will have towards anyone involved in the matter will be Mike Babcock.

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I don't think that is necessarily true, I think there might be several teams that see $260K for the rest of the season as a pretty good investment (even if you don't really want Nabokov) just to keep him from going to the Wings. Not everyone has the cap/roster space problems that the Wings have.

Yes but he would have to have or at least compete for the starting job AND want to go there.

esteef

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I think the best thing it brings is the tandem. This could be like the Ozzy and Hasek tandem of 2008 that won use the prize!

The Osgood/Hasek tandem certainly got us to the playoffs that year, but Osgood definately won us the cup.

As far as the issue at hand, I think a lot of you are extremely optimistic and I don't blame any of you for it. However, let's take a "realistic" look at this situation.

In my opinion, Ken Holland signed Nabokov knowing that he would have to pass through waivers. It's a gamble. Sign a starting caliber goalie at a near league minimum price that has to be waived. If he passes, we gain some bargain depth in net and possibly someone who could turn into a starter. If he get's claimed, we go on as we were and lose nothing, except maybe a couple of bucks out of Mike Illitch's pocket and some time.

Holland did all that he could to try to maybe steer other teams from Nabokov with the NTC, but lets face it. A goaltender that has been a starter for pretty much his whole career is an attractive option for ANY team. Whether they're at the bottom of the standings, fighting for a playoff spot, or definately making the playoffs, if they want him they'll put in a claim. It doesn't matter how much cap space or how many goalies or players are on their roster, if a team wants him the can send someone down, waive someone or trade someone to make the neccessary cap and/or roster space.

Also, Don Meehans message to the teams in the league is merely a sesame seed on the hamburger bun. It has no bearing on where Nabokov will end up. If a team claims him, Nabokov will have to do whatever that team desires, even if they claim him for depth and he keeps the press box warm.

I notice a lot of people throwing around the "odd man out" theory... The Red Wings won't need to have an odd man out, they have a player that will be on LTIR til after the trade deadline. Having a player on LTIR keeps a spot open, and after the trade deadline the 23 man roster limit is lifted.

Another misconception is that Detroit gets first claim if he is waived by the team that claims him from Detroit, which is not true.

Even though it's pretty much been shot down, it would be tough for Detroit to work out some sort of deal with NJ if they had claimed him, because in order for NJ to trade him to Detroit, Nabokov would first have to waive his NTC, but they would also have to get his permission to be waived again since a player that get's claimed on waivers can only be traded if they clear waivers. Even if the Devils did claim him and trade him back to the Wings, the trade would have to be significantly balanced as I'm sure if it wasn't the NHL would immediately call collusion and block it. Another noted misconception is that only teams lower than the waiving team in the standings can put in a claim. This also is not true. If it were true, don't you think New Jersey would be having a field day with their cap situation knowing that they could just waive anybody and throw them in and out of the minors cuz no one would get claimed? ANY team in the NHL that is not the Detroit Red Wings can put in a claim. SO every thinking that Vancouver and Philly can't claim are wrong. If teams #4-30 in the standing don't put in a claim and team #2 does, it doesn't matter at all that they are higher than Detroit's #3. I also think at some point I noticed where GENIUS Bob McKenzie stated that Nabokov wouldn't be allowed to come back to Detroit if he got claimed. This is false. I'm guessing he was thinking about a rule from the old CBA where players that were traded a month before the waiver draft couldn't return to the team that traded them away (ala Dean McAmmond 2003 trade deadline...). This rule actually kept teams from protecting players from the draft by trading them to another team that had room for protected players and then reacquiring them after the draft. In 1989 the Flyers couldn't protect all of the players that they wanted to, but the Winnipeg Jets had some room. So the Flyers traded Pete Peeters and Keith Acton to Winnipeg a couple of days before the waiver draft for "future considerations". However, Winnipeg traded both players back to the Flyers the day after the draft for a 5th round pick. Obviously, without the waiver draft we don't have to worry about this rule. So in theory, If New Jersey were to claim Nabokov, they could trade him back to Detroit, ONLY IF he clears waivers, but obviously if Detroit wanted him back they would put in a claim, obviously negating any need to have to trade him back....

Enjoy him while he's a Red Wing for the next 18 hours.

Edited by DSM

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Guest Howard He Do It?!

LeBrun:

Have heard from a few teams who say they might claim Nabokov. We'll see tomorrow whether it's all talk or not.

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Not for a team to claim him off waivers (unless I am misunderstanding you).

Whatever team claims him has to give him either the starting job or allow him to compete for the starter spot. So he either is the new starter for that team or he's in a 1a, 1b type tandem goalie situation. Also, he cannot be moved to the minors or anywhere else so he remains on the roster. All that plus he can simply decide to not go where he's claimed in which case I'm not exactly sure what happens then. I mean if he decides not to sign/play for them, can they still be held to the "must be a starter" clause?

esteef

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Guest Crymson

Seriously? Really? Did you even read what I wrote? Funny that I would hate him and not like this move because I think that it's very likely to box him out of Detroit. Brilliant logic as usual, Crymson.

Apologies. I mistook you for somebody else, so I didn't read your post before responding.

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Asked about the Nabokov signing, Howard said: "That's out of my hands. That's up to management and what they think. If he can help us, he can help us."
Asked whether he thought Nabokov, 35, was signed as insurance or to push him, Howard said: "I don't need anyone to push me. I push myself. I work hard in practice every single day, and I just go out there and try to win games for the guys."


Read more: Wings know Nabokov a long way from joining team | freep.com | Detroit Free Press http://www.freep.com/article/20110121/SPORTS05/101210437/Wings-know-Nabokov-a-long-way-from-joining-team#ixzz1BiEnTq2D

This is why I called this a bulls*** move earlier. I don't think it's fair to Howard and I don't like the way he's been set up. I'm not angry at Howard for his play this year, though it's frustrating. And while I don't hate Babcock, you could say it angers me to consider the manner in which he's dealt with Howard. I've said all along that he's being set up to be run down and I didn't like it. I think he's got a load of potential and I feel like they've squandered it, and any way you shake it, to me this move feels like they've given up on Howard.

And I don't like it one damn bit.

Howard's the first guy to come through the organization that I think has the attitude and skill to be the long-term goalie since the last long-term goalie, Chris Osgood. I think it's total bulls*** that Babcock tried to fast track his development at the risk of him crashing, when he really should know better. Countless other young goalies who burn out fast tell the tale. As the pressure mounts and they're not mentally acclimated enough to the NHL game to deal with it, things fall apart. I don't think it was fair to Howard at all and I don't like it one bit.

Whether he moves to another team or never returns to a consistent form, I think it will be an absolute shame.

And the only animosity I will have towards anyone involved in the matter will be Mike Babcock.

WTF do you mean fast track? Howard has been baking in the minors for as long as possible and is 26 years old damn near 27. The Red Wings organization have taken their time with Howard getting him into the big league and now that he is struggling it's all Babs fault? During his AHL days they said inconsistency was a problem with him and this year it's showing. Last year was a great year and he carried the team for a huge stretch of the season. Guess what? When you play like that the expectation of how good you play goes up. Even with crappy defense and a poor team in front of him last year he was able to handle the load this year not so much.

IMO the Red Wings learned from last year they cannot ride a hot goalie all season long. Sure they could do it if Howard was playing great but even if he was this is a good move because they can take the load off of him and keep him fresh for the playoffs. If Howard or anyone else does not like this move to bad. The Wings want another cup plain and simple. If Holland thinks this is a necessary risk/gamble to try and get Nabby he will take that risk if it means our odds of winning the cup goes up in his eyes.

Edited by dragonballgtz

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Jesus, for the last time this isn't an anti-Howard move. It's insurance because Ozzie is out for a while, we have a chance to get a great goalie cheap, and aside from providing a reliable tandem he could push Howard or replace him if Howard falters.

Howard may get all pissy, like any player has the right to, but there is absolutely no arguing this move doesn't make sense or isn't fair.

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Whatever team claims him has to give him either the starting job or allow him to compete for the starter spot. So he either is the new starter for that team or he's in a 1a, 1b type tandem goalie situation. Also, he cannot be moved to the minors or anywhere else so he remains on the roster. All that plus he can simply decide to not go where he's claimed in which case I'm not exactly sure what happens then. I mean if he decides not to sign/play for them, can they still be held to the "must be a starter" clause?

esteef

I'm not sure what all happens if he decides not to play for the team that picks him up. I must have missed something why does a team have to make him the starter or starter tandem?

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Have you even watched the Wings play in the last month?

Hudler's stats in that time:

12gp 3g 8a 11pts +2 2pim ~15 TOI/G (I'll be damned if I'm going to add all the times on ice up for those games and average them)

1 Shoot out winner

So Hudler's apparently turned the corner since he got his confidence back after his 1g1a game against Colorado.

And now you're advocating dumping him? :lol: 2.8 mil is a bargin for those numbers. We can't be sure whether he'll play at this level (the level he is historically known to play at based on his previous NHL seasons) or the garbage play he showed us before Christmas. Either:

A.) you think his early struggles were because he had trouble making the transition from KHL to NHL (game play and physical conditioning) which was compounded by a slump that caused him to lose confidence in himself.

or

B.) you have some sort of mental defect and think that some time between his 26th and 27th birthday he did a complete 180 and became a terrible hockey player (and the last month is a fluke)

But hey, you were the loudest voice calling for Leino's departure (man that sure makes you look brilliant now).

I was by far NOT the loudest voice calling for Leino's departure. I really don't recall be partial either way when it came to Leino, but I was not beating the soap box to trade him no matter what... Hudler on the other hand.....

edit: as a matter of fact, looking back over my posts since before Leino was traded, here is what I found that was my opinion in the "Miller or Leino Poll Thread" from January of last year:

Miller, 100%! Leino may be good in Finland, but he has busted his opportunities here. For Pete's sake he was given a #1 line spot for a few games during the peak of the injuries and he couldn't hack it. He will be the healthy scratch, if Babcock was gonna put him on the third line when all players are back healthy, why wouldn't he be playing now instead of Miller? Miller is better that's why... (at least here in Detroit he is....) Unfortunately someone is gonna sit, Abdelkader, Helm, Miller & May are ALL on two-way contracts so take your pick to which one(s) go to GRR to make cap room when Franzen returns. Leino won't get demoted, but if they can fit him under the cap, Miller will be in the lineup while Leino sits. From a business standpoint, you cannot lose Leino to waivers, so you'd have to demote Abdelkader first since their salaries wash each other out. Nothing personal, just business...

Yeah, that sounds like I was the loudest voice and leading the trade Leino campaign....

Edited by LeftWinger

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Whatever team claims him has to give him either the starting job or allow him to compete for the starter spot. So he either is the new starter for that team or he's in a 1a, 1b type tandem goalie situation. Also, he cannot be moved to the minors or anywhere else so he remains on the roster. All that plus he can simply decide to not go where he's claimed in which case I'm not exactly sure what happens then. I mean if he decides not to sign/play for them, can they still be held to the "must be a starter" clause?

esteef

The "Starter Clause" isn't actually a clause in the sense that it carries any legal weight. He just told GMs not to be dicks and pick him off waivers to sit him on the bench.

If Nabby doesn't play for the team that claims him, he sits out the remainder of the season for breach of contract.

It's thuggish, but that is the way the NHL rolls these days.

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I'm not sure what all happens if he decides not to play for the team that picks him up. I must have missed something why does a team have to make him the starter or starter tandem?

It's part of the deal that his agent announced to all the teams.

esteef

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The "Starter Clause" isn't actually a clause in the sense that it carries any legal weight. He just told GMs not to be dicks and pick him off waivers to sit him on the bench.

If Nabby doesn't play for the team that claims him, he sits out the remainder of the season for breach of contract.

It's thuggish, but that is the way the NHL rolls these days.

That was my understanding that his agent just asked for a team to not get him if they didn't want him for a starter but they can't really keep a team from picking him up and not making him the starter.

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