1581 replies to this topic

[HankthaTank]

For what it's worth the Star-Ledger here is sounding like the Devils will claim Nabokov and waive him and bingo he's a Red Wing

http://www.nj.com/de...r_shutouts.html

That was yesterday. They have already voiced their lack of interest in signing him today.

I, of course have no sources to back it up, but I did read it somewhere today.

[IceMunkee]

Asked about the Nabokov signing, Howard said: "That's out of my hands. That's up to management and what they think. If he can help us, he can help us."
Asked whether he thought Nabokov, 35, was signed as insurance or to push him, Howard said: "I don't need anyone to push me. I push myself. I work hard in practice every single day, and I just go out there and try to win games for the guys."


Read more: Wings know Nabokov a long way from joining team | freep.com | Detroit Free Press http://www.freep.com/article/20110121/SPORTS05/101210437/Wings-know-Nabokov-a-long-way-from-joining-team#ixzz1BiEnTq2D

This is why I called this a bulls*** move earlier. I don't think it's fair to Howard and I don't like the way he's been set up. I'm not angry at Howard for his play this year, though it's frustrating. And while I don't hate Babcock, you could say it angers me to consider the manner in which he's dealt with Howard. I've said all along that he's being set up to be run down and I didn't like it. I think he's got a load of potential and I feel like they've squandered it, and any way you shake it, to me this move feels like they've given up on Howard.

And I don't like it one damn bit.

Howard's the first guy to come through the organization that I think has the attitude and skill to be the long-term goalie since the last long-term goalie, Chris Osgood. I think it's total bulls*** that Babcock tried to fast track his development at the risk of him crashing, when he really should know better. Countless other young goalies who burn out fast tell the tale. As the pressure mounts and they're not mentally acclimated enough to the NHL game to deal with it, things fall apart. I don't think it was fair to Howard at all and I don't like it one bit.

Whether he moves to another team or never returns to a consistent form, I think it will be an absolute shame.

And the only animosity I will have towards anyone involved in the matter will be Mike Babco

It makes little differance that he came through our system. There is no way he was rushed and Babcock is the last to blame. We spent a ton of time pampering Jimmy and it is time. He has to be better and this will push him. Push him by motivation or push him right out on his butt. I just think it would be silly to stay with Jimmy and an injuried Ozzy becauuse they came through our system or they are swell guys!

[pockets]

this is a good move Jimmy already got hurt and Ozzie is out. It's some insurance and not only that but if we get him he is someone who could push Jimmy. There's also no guarantee how Ozzie will play after sitting for so long. I digress though in the end Nabby at the moment is better then any other option we have to back up Jimmy.

[DSM]

Asked about the Nabokov signing, Howard said: "That's out of my hands. That's up to management and what they think. If he can help us, he can help us."
Asked whether he thought Nabokov, 35, was signed as insurance or to push him, Howard said: "I don't need anyone to push me. I push myself. I work hard in practice every single day, and I just go out there and try to win games for the guys."


Read more: Wings know Nabokov a long way from joining team | freep.com | Detroit Free Press http://www.freep.com/article/20110121/SPORTS05/101210437/Wings-know-Nabokov-a-long-way-from-joining-team#ixzz1BiEnTq2D

This is why I called this a bulls*** move earlier. I don't think it's fair to Howard and I don't like the way he's been set up. I'm not angry at Howard for his play this year, though it's frustrating. And while I don't hate Babcock, you could say it angers me to consider the manner in which he's dealt with Howard. I've said all along that he's being set up to be run down and I didn't like it. I think he's got a load of potential and I feel like they've squandered it, and any way you shake it, to me this move feels like they've given up on Howard.

And I don't like it one damn bit.

Howard's the first guy to come through the organization that I think has the attitude and skill to be the long-term goalie since the last long-term goalie, Chris Osgood. I think it's total bulls*** that Babcock tried to fast track his development at the risk of him crashing, when he really should know better. Countless other young goalies who burn out fast tell the tale. As the pressure mounts and they're not mentally acclimated enough to the NHL game to deal with it, things fall apart. I don't think it was fair to Howard at all and I don't like it one bit.

Whether he moves to another team or never returns to a consistent form, I think it will be an absolute shame.

And the only animosity I will have towards anyone involved in the matter will be Mike Babcock.

LOL. Take a chill pill. Did you maybe think that Holland is happy with Howard and just wanted a sure thing rental insurance policy? (Ala Bill Ranford 1999....) Put yourself in Hollands shoes. Your team has a total 5 Goaltenders to work with:

Goalie A, Goalie B, Goalie C, Goalie D and Goalie E
Goalie A is your starting goaltender, who last season was in the voting for the Calder Trophy and played in the playoffs for the first time in his career. However, this season his numbers aren't as good as the previous year. Goalie B is an experienced goaltender who was a starter for 2 championship teams and came within 1 game of making it 3... However, this goalies struggles caused him to lose the starting job to Goalie A. Another blow to Goalie B, is that he just had surgery that he will not be ready to return from until as late as a couple of weeks before weeks before the playoffs, which may not give him enough time to be playing at 100% before the playoffs arrive. Goalie C is an NHL goalkeeper that has a some regular season experience but zero in the playoffs. And lastly Goalies D and E have zero NHL experience and are largely unproven.

Here's a worst case look at how the scenario could fold out if nothing changes in goal at or before the deadline...
Scenario 1A. Goalie A could (god forbid)be injured during the stretch and miss time. Here is a negative look at how the injury could work out...
Goalie A could miss a signifact amount of time upto and including the rest of the stretch and the beggining of the playoffs. During that time, depending on Goalie B's injury status, we would either have to rely on Goalie who will undoutedly be rusty from missing between 6-8 weeks and recovering from an injury, or Goalie C. If Goalie A goes down for the rest of the year and the playoffs we would still have to rely on Goalie B and possibly Goalie C, which may not pan out well.

Scenario 1B. Maybe Goalie A stays healthy, but continues to struggle or his struggles get even worse. The team will have to rely on Goalie B or Goalie C which may not play out well.

Holland thinking of this situation, signs a PROVEN starting goaltender for $570k that will slot between Goalie A and Goalie B, making him Goalie AB.
In Scenarios 1A and 1B, Goalie AB could step in negating the reliance on Goalie B or Goalie C.

Edited by DSM, 21 January 2011 - 06:54 PM.

[Frozen-Man]

Right, it's more of a threat. But he would still occupy a roster spot yes?

esteef

Yeah, that is my understanding. He would have to take a roster spot.

[WingZNut13]

Regardless of who get him, they said they won't say till tomorrow after the waiver period is over.

So my suggestion would be drink up, pass out, wake up tomorrow, and we'll either have a new goalie or about 500 pissed off LGW members. Either way, tomorrow should be entertaining.

[TheCaptain19]

If we do get him, anyone think Miller will give up his #20?

[gcom007]

It makes little differance that he came through our system. There is no way he was rushed and Babcock is the last to blame. We spent a ton of time pampering Jimmy and it is time. He has to be better and this will push him. Push him by motivation or push him right out on his butt. I just think it would be silly to stay with Jimmy and an injuried Ozzy becauuse they came through our system or they are swell guys!

I get that he took longer to come up through the minors than most, but it doesn't change the fact that the AHL game is VERY different from the NHL game especially come playoff time. I don't care how long you've been around, sans the incredibly rare Patrick Roy types, it takes a few years in this league to get your game together if you're going to be a goalie that's built to last, inside and out. And that's what I mean by Babcock fast-tracking him. Again, I recognize that he got a bit of a late start by NHL standards, but it doesn't change the fact that he likely just isn't ready to be an NHL starter. It's not that he doesn't have the skill; he's proven that he has more than enough. But the mental game just takes more time to develop and it's not something to rush.

I think when you really look at Howard's shortcoming's thus far, they all boil down to cracking under pressure. You look at the playoffs last year and you look at this year when he's automatically deemed the starter and expected to be a top-tier goalie. What happens? He struggles. Last regular season, everything happened so fast and in the rush and excitement of it all, it's easy to shake off the notion of being THE starter because you're just out there playing and having fun. Then the playoffs hit and suddenly you realize that you really are THE starter and not only that, the game is harder and faster than ever. Struggles abound. Same goes for this year now that the rookie rush has worn off.

I know a lot of people are of the mind that these guys need to put up or leave, but I just think that's really short-sighted, and I think there's a mountain of evidence to suggest that it is indeed short-sighted. I'd rather let a guy develop slow and learn to adjust to the pressure little by little. I think it's far more likely to work out long-run and I think that kind of development is what it takes to be able to be a playoff goalie. And I think Babcock put it on him too soon, and not only that, put it on him in far too intense of a fashion. I know everyone forgets so soon, but it was pretty clear last year no matter what angle you were coming from that Howard played too many games down the stretch. Whether you think it left him physically weakened, put too much pressure on him or didn't allow Osgood a chance to be ready to come in, it all boils down to Howard playing too much. Same goes for this year up until recently when the negative effects have really started to show.

And sorry, I blame Babcock for that. It's an opinion, sure, but I believe that Howard could have played real well in a far more moderated role last season and this year, and I don't believe he'd be struggling so much now. I think he'd be fine and just out there playing (well) more like last year while Osgood is out. And then maybe next year he's ready to start really toying with the idea of being THE starter and ready to challenge to start in the playoffs. As of now, it's just a mess that'll likely get messier for Howard if Nabokov does indeed stick around.

Remember Hasek? He didn't get a chance to really start until his 3rd season either. Guess how old he was in his rookie year? 25. It's impossible to say whether or not he absolutely would or would not have had the success he did if he had to be a starter in his rookie year, but at the very least, it certainly didn't hurt to have him taking a back seat for a bit to watch other guys and develop.

[egroen]

Right, it's more of a threat. But he would still occupy a roster spot yes?

esteef

My assumption would be his team could just suspend him like the Ducks did with Niedermayer - in which case he comes off the cap and roster, until he is no longer breaching his contract.

[esteef]

My assumption would be his team could just suspend him like the Ducks did with Niedermayer - in which case he comes off the cap and roster, until he is no longer breaching his contract.

Would suspending him be "moving" him off the roster?

esteef

[gcom007]

LOL. Take a chill pill. Did you maybe think that Holland is happy with Howard and just wanted a sure thing rental insurance policy? (Ala Bill Ranford 1999....) Put yourself in Hollands shoes. Your team has a total 5 Goaltenders to work with:

Goalie A, Goalie B, Goalie C, Goalie D and Goalie E
Goalie A is your starting goaltender, who last season was in the voting for the Calder Trophy and played in the playoffs for the first time in his career. However, this season his numbers aren't as good as the previous year. Goalie B is an experienced goaltender who was a starter for 2 championship teams and came within 1 game of making it 3... However, this goalies struggles caused him to lose the starting job to Goalie A. Another blow to Goalie B, is that he just had surgery that he will not be ready to return from until as late as a couple of weeks before weeks before the playoffs, which may not give him enough time to be playing at 100% before the playoffs arrive. Goalie C is an NHL goalkeeper that has a some regular season experience but zero in the playoffs. And lastly Goalies D and E have zero NHL experience and are largely unproven.

Here's a worst case look at how the scenario could fold out if nothing changes in goal at or before the deadline...
Scenario 1A. Goalie A could (god forbid)be injured during the stretch and miss time. Here is a negative look at how the injury could work out...
Goalie A could miss a signifact amount of time upto and including the rest of the stretch and the beggining of the playoffs. During that time, depending on Goalie B's injury status, we would either have to rely on Goalie who will undoutedly be rusty from missing between 6-8 weeks and recovering from an injury, or Goalie C. If Goalie A goes down for the rest of the year and the playoffs we would still have to rely on Goalie B and possibly Goalie C, which may not pan out well.

Scenario 1B. Maybe Goalie A stays healthy, but continues to struggle or his struggles get even worse. The team will have to rely on Goalie B or Goalie C which may not play out well.

Holland thinking of this situation, signs a PROVEN starting goaltender for $570k that will slot between Goalie A and Goalie B, making him Goalie AB.
In Scenarios 1A and 1B, Goalie AB could step in negating the reliance on Goalie B or Goalie C.

I get why Holland would want to do it, I just think it sucks for Howard. I think he's going to be the one who gets the raw deal out of this, and I think it has a great deal to do with Babcock's handling of the goalie situation the last 2 years. As said, I really do get the benefits of it in the short run. Hell, I wouldn't be shocked if Nabokov simply is the best playoff option when it all shakes down this year. That's not the worst idea in the world. But I just think it's one that's likely to be screwing Howard in the long-run, and I think the situation could've been avoided if handled better from the start.

This isn't some new idea I just cooked up. I worried and posted about this sort of thing happening last year. When it came to discussing Howard, everyone just assumed he'd be immune to the effects of the pressure and the "sophomore slump" that has befallen so many goalies in the past. We all now know that he's not, but we've forgotten or ignored what likely has caused it.

And again, do you honestly think that Holland would have done this last year if the same injury situation presented itself? And by that I mean, if Howard was playing as well as he was last year. And now that he's not and it is happening, do you really think Howard's happy about it? Does he sound excited in those quotes? I don't think so. He's not stupid. It's one thing for Osgood to push him and even get a playoff nod ahead of him as there's a relationship and support system there that will trump a lot of the negativity that could come to the surface. It's two guys competing that understand their roles in the system. There's history there with Osgood as a Wing that demands respect, which would be a lot easier for Howard to deal with. It'd be more in line with the way everyone expected it to be for awhile before last season anyways. They'd both be brought back next year in similar roles and Howard would undoubtedly really be able to step up to the plate next year.

But bringing in an outsider is a totally different story. The message isn't about two guys competing anymore. It's about Howard not being able to get the job done in a satisfactory manner. He knows it. It's not hard to read between the lines.

[Hockeytown0001]

Biggest Wings story in some time.

[Broken 16]

Wasn't one of the major knocks on Howard when he was in GR was that he would become complacent? Maybe management feels he's showing signs of that.

[RedWingsRox]

Goes to show what some players would agree to in order to play with the Winged Wheel on their jersey . I mean $570K/yr, $250K for the rest of the season ??!! No other team would make that ridiculous low ball offer and Nabby wouldn't agree to do this for any other team. If this goes through, Nabby and Howie's combined salary is about the price of our backup Ozzie ... unbelievable!

[Crymson]

I don't see why people feel this is a huge deal. It's an insurance move. Osgood probably won't be back until after the trade deadline, and any team can keep 3+ goalies on the roster after that.

[IceMunkee]

Wasn't one of the major knocks on Howard when he was in GR was that he would become complacent? Maybe management feels he's showing signs of that.

No doubt Jimmy gets complacent but that is not the reason the Brass is making this move. They are not signing him to shine Jimmy's shoes, dance for him or do backflips, well maybe the last just in net. The move is not for Jimmy and his entertainment. This is a team move. Nabs is a great... okay really good goaltender. That has been the winningest goalie in the regular season, sometimes starting 70ish games a season and a "shakey" playoff past. This move is not for Jimmy. It is because of Jimmy. All goes well we can have a once overworked goalie and Jimmy splitting time and the possibilities of a once great goalie could be the answer.

[Booster313]

I think what really matters is the short term. It will be (if it happens) a Howard Nabakov tandem... When Ozzie comes back if one or both haven't stepped up he will get his shot as the backup.. Which is all he was really going to be this year anyway. After the season cup or not chances are Ozzie is our backup. Neither Nabby nor Howard will sign for league minimum. So we keep one of them and Ozzie. The Wings would time up 3-5million on two starting goalies.

[dragonballgtz]

Bob McKenzie reports:

I don't feel bad for feeling confused and a little confounded by Evgeni Nabokov's waiver situation with the Detroit Red Wings.

Edited by dragonballgtz, 21 January 2011 - 08:41 PM.

[hockey23]

The only source I can find is Eklund's twitter which says SJ will put in a claim. I wonder where the Chicago rumor came from.

[HankthaTank]

The only source I can find is Eklund's twitter which says SJ will put in a claim. I wonder where the Chicago rumor came from.

Just became moot.