1581 replies to this topic

[Vladiator]

Good for Nabokov.

He's a 35 year old goalie who has never won a cup, why the heck would he want to waste precious time with the New York Islanders?

If a playoff bound team would have picked him up there is no doubt in my mind that he would have played for them, but to go from Wings to the Islanders is just ridiculous.

It's like a pimp offering you a Jenny McCarthy lookalike and 48 hrs later he delivers Rosie O'Donnell. WTF!!!

Good analogy. Spend time in CA with his family or go to work with the NYI for 250K.

[eva unit zero]

posting from my phone and the keys suck. who cares. Do you understand the loop hole or not. You said there was none. I proved there is. Do you now see it?

The problem you don't understand is that what you posted is NOT a "loophole" as you suggest. The 2nd place team loses the goalie they sign, but is not guaranteed anything from the 30th place team. So why should they make the 'trade' as it were?

You have two separate transactions. A goaltender signing which is subject to entry waivers, and a forward trade. So either the 2nd place team gets their forward before officially signing the goaltender, or the 30th place team effectively gets their goaltender before making the trade.

Say the trade is made first, and the 2nd place team now has that additional top line forward they wanted for a 7th round pick. Next they sign the goalie and the 30th place team gets him on entry waivers, right? But the 2nd place team's GM can screw the 30th place team over and just not sign him. Or maybe he doesn't sign.

There's no loophole. You're sitting there trying to manufacture one.

[Heaten]

The problem you don't understand is that what you posted is NOT a "loophole" as you suggest. The 2nd place team loses the goalie they sign, but is not guaranteed anything from the 30th place team. So why should they make the 'trade' as it were?

You have two separate transactions. A goaltender signing which is subject to entry waivers, and a forward trade. So either the 2nd place team gets their forward before officially signing the goaltender, or the 30th place team effectively gets their goaltender before making the trade.

Say the trade is made first, and the 2nd place team now has that additional top line forward they wanted for a 7th round pick. Next they sign the goalie and the 30th place team gets him on entry waivers, right? But the 2nd place team's GM can screw the 30th place team over and just not sign him. Or maybe he doesn't sign.

There's no loophole. You're sitting there trying to manufacture one.

Sounds like you have major trust issues. That I can't help you with. But if this loophole that I am sitting here trying to manufacture has potential to work, then.. well, it's a loophole within the system that can be exposed. (insert phrase: "If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it must be a duck")

Sounds more like you are trying to 'manufacture' a reason why it shouldn't work. Your reason is personal trust issues. If the 30the place team acquires the goalie that the 2nd place team doesn't want/need or desire, and the 30th place team doesn't follow through on their end... then no loss, just blacklist that organization permanently. No love loss.

But in the real world, real businessmen value their word. These guys aren't greasy used car dealers for piss sakes. (except Burke)

Just last year Babcock reached to Devils head coach, Jacques Lemaire, to ask him how he could improve his PK. Within the week, Wings PK was was outstanding. How can that be possible, there must have been a sabotage in there someplace right? No, not everyone is out to screw you.

[eva unit zero]

No, not everyone is out to screw you.

And you are, by contrast, suggesting that everyone is going to be perfectly helpful and trustworthy and keep their word based on one example.

You do realize that the GM who got the short end of the deal in my example could do nothing about it, because it's a backdoor deal that is not a binding agreement and may even be in violation of the CBA.

[Wingzman91]

I'll bite.

30th place team in the east needs a goalie because maybe they think next year they have a chance to make playoffs. 2nd place team needs a top six forward to go deep in the playoffs this year. 2nd place signs KHL star goalie to a 2-year deal (Nabokov for example), 30th place picks goalie off waivers for nothing and cheap contract. 30th place team now trades 2nd place team a top 6 forward for little to nothing.

That's just one example of a possible loophole.

Except.....any player that has played a game in a league outside of the NHL, after the NHL season started, then gets claimed on waivers, HAVE TO be put on waivers again to be traded, for the rest of the season, no exceptions.period.

[Heaten]

And you are, by contrast, suggesting that everyone is going to be perfectly helpful and trustworthy and keep their word based on one example.

You do realize that the GM who got the short end of the deal in my example could do nothing about it, because it's a backdoor deal that is not a binding agreement and may even be in violation of the CBA.

But they could do something about it. They can blacklist that organization permanently. Team B doesn't lose anything but time drafting a contract. Chalk it up as low risk, high reward. Holland paved the way for long contracts, too. I'm sure the CBA doesn't like that either.... it's a loophole. They don't like any loophole.

[Shady Ultima]

Except.....any player that has played a game in a league outside of the NHL, after the NHL season started, then gets claimed on waivers, HAVE TO be put on waivers again to be traded, for the rest of the season, no exceptions.period.

Except, that's not what he was saying.

Let me use an example here.

The season ends, and Brodeur retires. Looks like NJ's situation just got worse. They don't have another goalie to come in and take his load. So, they go and talk with Detroit's management. Detroit then signs KHL goalie for 2m. He goes on waivers, NJ claims him. They then trade Detroit David Clarkson (example, and a player I love) for Detroit's 5th round pick in 2015.

Basically, it works out that Detroit gets David Clarkson for the pick and the goalie, who they went through the work of the contract with.

[Heaten]

Except.....any player that has played a game in a league outside of the NHL, after the NHL season started, then gets claimed on waivers, HAVE TO be put on waivers again to be traded, for the rest of the season, no exceptions.period.

This has nothing to do with trading the newly signed player from the KHL I'm thinking you're misunderstanding my post....

Lets say:

- Dallas wants a top 6 forward
- Devils wants a goalie

- Dallas gets creative and said they'll sign Nabokov for $500k and Devils can claim him off waivers + picks in exchange for Parise

- Devils (in the Eastern Conf) accepts because the salary dump makes sense

- Devils get's fist shot to acquire Nabokov and claim him.

- Dallas sends crappy picks over to Devils for Parise

But why doesn't Devils just sign Nabokov and cut out the middle man? Because they get last chance to get him if they sign him first. He has to clear 29 other teams in the NHL. If Dallas does the dirty work, Devils get first shot.

Hope this makes sense

Edited by Heaten, 24 January 2011 - 02:45 AM.

[Wingzman91]

This has nothing to do with trading the newly signed player from the KHL I'm thinking you're misunderstanding my post....

Lets say:

- Dallas wants a top 6 forward
- Devils wants a goalie

- Dallas gets creative and said they'll sign Nabokov for $500k and Devils can claim him off waivers + picks in exchange for Parise

- Devils (in the Eastern Conf) accepts because the salary dump makes sense

- Devils get's fist shot to acquire Nabokov and claim him.

- Dallas sends crappy picks over to Devils for Parise

But why doesn't Devils just sign Nabokov and cut out the middle man? Because they get last chance to get him if they sign him first. He has to clear 29 other teams in the NHL. If Dallas does the dirty work, Devils get first shot.

Hope this makes sense

Lol, ok, what your describing is silly though, in that, if it was the offseason the said goalie doesn't go on waivers. He only has to go on waivers if he started the NHL season on a different league. In the offseason, you could just straight out trade the two players

[Heaten]

Lol, ok, what your describing is silly though, in that, if it was the offseason the said goalie doesn't go on waivers. He only has to go on waivers if he started the NHL season on a different league. In the offseason, you could just straight out trade the two players

I'm not talking about the offseason. I accidentally quoted you, that's probably why we are talking about two different things.

[Wingzman91]

I'm not talking about the offseason. I accidentally quoted you, that's probably why we are talking about two different things.

What you have said then is correct then, in theory the last place team would recieve a benefit from this sign-and-trade, and it would be CBA legal.
I assume the goalie is in on this, and then I would think the league would still look at this as a possible circumvention, a problem that this metaphorical NJ team knows well.
All in all, unless the goalie was blindsided by the move this isn't even a big deal, as any team could then make offers(if this is legal)and outbid each other until it ends up being a last round draft pick, traded to the 2nd worst team with an agreement to trade it back when the 2nd worst team needs a KHL player and the last place team can sign the guy for them.......
See how silly it gets?

Edit: Hope I finally understand what your getting at.

Edited by Wingzman91, 24 January 2011 - 07:04 AM.

[Wingzman91]

Nabokov: Isle Stay Home - NYPost:

"...It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. And I hope they understand that."
Well, the Islanders don't. Not even in the slightest.

"Why wouldn't he show up? I'm still expecting him," Islanders owner Charles Wang said of Nabokov in a rare press conference yesterday afternoon before the Isles' 5-3 loss to the Sabres at Nassau Coliseum. "Flights are booked. If you go into the locker room, the locker stall is prepared, his uniform is prepared. If you look at the notes for [yesterday's] game, his name is on it."

Now, if he sticks with his decision to not report to the Islanders, he will be forced to sit out the remainder of the NHL season.

"Here is somebody the Islanders want that wants to play [and] has a contract with the NHL," Wang said. "So, we're waiting for him and looking forward to having him."

Over the previous two days, both Wang and Islanders general manager Garth Snow have said they left messages for Nabokov. According to what the goalie said to ESPN.com, those messages never were received.

"He may have tried to reach me but there's no message from him," Nabokov said of Snow. "I still haven't talked to him."

Snow said yesterday that everything was "status quo," meaning he is still expecting Nabokov to show up. Nabokov's agent, Don Meehan, was unavailable for comment last night.

"I dont see why somebody who has this opportunity would not want to play and fulfill his contract," Wang said. "It's nuts, right? I don't understand any of it."

[TimeBinder]

the Fighting Hamsters are my 3rd favorite team in the league!

Go Turtles!!!

[Finnish Wing]

"I dont see why somebody who has this opportunity would not want to play and fulfill his contract," Wang said. "It's nuts, right? I don't understand any of it."

Hmm, lets see... Maybe it's because you're the...

ISLANDERS!!!!! : DDD

[nate94gt]

Hmm, lets see... Maybe it's because you're the...

ISLANDERS!!!!! : DDD

correct. nabby didnt want to play for the islanders, he wanted to play for detroit. Period.

however, you have to understand that the islanders cant really come out and say "yeah, we know he wanted to go to detroit but we picked him up. Jokes on him."

Edited by nate94gt, 24 January 2011 - 09:01 AM.

[drwscc]

What are you talking about? That's exactly what they are saying.

[Buppy]

I'm not talking about the offseason. I accidentally quoted you, that's probably why we are talking about two different things.

I'm pretty sure NHL trade regulations prohibit 'other considerations' from being a factor in trades. So what you're talking about would be technically against the rules. It's not so much a loophole as it is collusion.

If someone were to try this, the league would most likely reject the trade, then investigate and punish the teams involved.

[JasonNewEra]

"It's nuts, right? I don't understand any of it."

Sounds like someone is completely clueless on how the world works. This is laughable, and I was absolutely correct. Regardless of what 'some' people said and made fun of me over. He doesn't want to play for the crap team. He even stated that he wasn't sure how to help them.

For all of you people who say that he has no 'rights' in the matter. You have issues. He wanted to play for a contender and a crap team took him. He's older now and doesn't want to wait to win. If you wanted the same thing, would you say, "I have no right I will suck for now."

I'm sure you would not.

[wingsgirl001]

Is their GM an idiot?
He wanted to play for Detroit, but they picked him up anyway, and he's surprised and "doesn't understand" why he doesn't want to play for the Isles? Seriously?

Edited by wingsgirl001, 24 January 2011 - 11:24 AM.

[Konnan511]

Except, that's not what he was saying.

Let me use an example here.

The season ends, and Brodeur retires. Looks like NJ's situation just got worse. They don't have another goalie to come in and take his load. So, they go and talk with Detroit's management. Detroit then signs KHL goalie for 2m. He goes on waivers, NJ claims him. They then trade Detroit David Clarkson (example, and a player I love) for Detroit's 5th round pick in 2015.

Basically, it works out that Detroit gets David Clarkson for the pick and the goalie, who they went through the work of the contract with.

Season's over, no more waivers.