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Wings Have To Toughen Up Soon


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#41 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 12:45 AM

who are these people you speak of?? don't say ericsson and abdelkader, they have turned down numerous fights this season.

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#42 Doc Holliday

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 01:12 AM

who are these people you speak of?? don't say ericsson and abdelkader, they have turned down numerous fights this season.


Turning down fights means they won't ever fight, now?

Edited by Doc Holliday, 25 January 2011 - 01:36 AM.

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#43 Buppy

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 01:14 AM

This isn't about "Enforcers". You can never have enough guys that can play a regular shift and drop the gloves on your team.

It's always about enforcers. Same 'debate' as always. I put debate in quotes there because you can't really call it a debate when no one really disagrees on any of the salient points.

No one wants a one-dimensional goon. Everyone agrees a guy who can play and fight would be nice to have. We all know it isn't an absolute necessity, but we all admit it wouldn't hurt. What are we actually debating?

The only reason it's ever discussed at all is because most of us over-invest ourselves in our team, to the point of trying to live vicariously through the team. So when someone on the team looks like a punk, the fan feels like a punk. Or from another direction, the 'softness' of the team gets pointed out, the fan feels soft. It's all the same thing, just slightly different buttons that trigger our insecurities, and a different balance of aggressive/defensive coping responses.

There's your daily psycho-analysis. Reflect.

#44 eva unit zero

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 01:19 AM

Turning down fights means they won't fight, now?


Yes Doc, just like hitting the outside of the post was nearly a goal when the goalie blocked off every possible crack and crevice the puck could have squeezed through within a three foot radius had it been on net. Just like if you catch the puck in your trapper, you should then dive in the direction of your catching glove to maximize the flashiness and make people think you made a super-human save.
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#45 Detroit # 1 Fan

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 01:22 AM

Obviously we lack spark in most games we play, and yes we could use more guys that will actually stick up for his teamates. But buddies high if he thinks the Wings dont have heart.

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#46 Konnan511

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 01:25 AM

Like many have said, I don't think the acquisition of guys like D.J. King, Jody Shelley, David Koci, Eric Godard, Trevor Gillies, and Wade Belak will help out this team, but a team can never have enough guys like Brandon Prust, Zenon Konopka, David Clarkson, Jared Boll, and Brad Winchester. Guys that can play a regular shift and won't back down from anyone. Dallas Drake was the perfect acquisition in 2008.

Yes they can. One, possibly two, no more than three on a team is enough if you want to win regularly.

Drake was awesome for us because he had a niche that he filled well. A whole team of Drakes will get you a lottery pick.

Plus, find me a tougher guy in the league than Holmstrom. He gets his ass beat more than anyone on a regular basis. Is he not tough?
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#47 Nev

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 01:34 AM

According to the author of the article, no because he doesn't fight and isn't North American.

Moronic author aside, with a couple of exceptions here I think we're all pretty much on the same page. We want a "Dallas Drake type" who can play, hit and drop the gloves. They don't grow on trees, teams who have them are reluctant to give them up, and in a cap world their value is often over-priced (cf Chris Neil).
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#48 newfy

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 02:10 AM

Yes they can. One, possibly two, no more than three on a team is enough if you want to win regularly.

Drake was awesome for us because he had a niche that he filled well. A whole team of Drakes will get you a lottery pick.

Plus, find me a tougher guy in the league than Holmstrom. He gets his ass beat more than anyone on a regular basis. Is he not tough?

He gets his ass beat but he never dishes it out really. The wings have some toughness yes, they can take a lot. Homer is a prime example, but you know whats even tougher and makes you tougher to play against for the other team? Dishing out some of that punishment Homer takes.

I would also say a guy who takes punches to the head from guys like Boogard and Orr are just as tough as Homer.

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#49 eva unit zero

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 02:59 AM

He gets his ass beat but he never dishes it out really. The wings have some toughness yes, they can take a lot. Homer is a prime example, but you know whats even tougher and makes you tougher to play against for the other team? Dishing out some of that punishment Homer takes.

I would also say a guy who takes punches to the head from guys like Boogard and Orr are just as tough as Homer.


Punching people and being punched...that does not make you tough. A goon with no skill might be tough, but not because he fights. Toughness is being able to overcome adversity in the forms it manifests itself as. For the Wings, it often seems to be an opponent where many of you guys start flipping out because we don't have an enforcer. But the Wings get through, because they have tough players like Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Holmstrom, Draper, Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Osgood.

You can have your team full of Colton Orrs and Derek Boogards. I'll take a team full of Zetterbergs, Datsyuks, Lidstroms, or Kronwalls.

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#50 F.Michael

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 08:37 AM

Replace "enforcer" with "guys that can play a regular shift and drop the gloves" in my post, same thing.

We already have guys that can take a regular shift and will fight, by the way.

Really?

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#51 13dangledangle

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 08:57 AM

I still insist we put Emery in the cage fairly often, he may be somewhat of an ass but he is one entertaining dude, and we all know he loves to be in the middle of it. (not a bad goalie either)Posted Image
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#52 sputman

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 09:37 AM

who are these people you speak of?? don't say ericsson and abdelkader, they have turned down numerous fights this season.


turning down fights is not always a bad thing when the other team loses an inferior player for 5 minutes. i remember abdelkader was going to go with iginla (bless him) but the refs got in the middle - that would have been a good trade. a few years ago cleary went with pronger to get him off of the ice for 5 minutes. we have really smart players.

Edited by drumshanbo, 25 January 2011 - 09:45 AM.

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#53 WorkingOvertime

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 09:42 AM


Punching people and being punched...that does not make you tough. A goon with no skill might be tough, but not because he fights. Toughness is being able to overcome adversity in the forms it manifests itself as. For the Wings, it often seems to be an opponent where many of you guys start flipping out because we don't have an enforcer. But the Wings get through, because they have tough players like Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Holmstrom, Draper, Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Osgood.

You can have your team full of Colton Orrs and Derek Boogards. I'll take a team full of Zetterbergs, Datsyuks, Lidstroms, or Kronwalls.

You're off base here. No poster in this thread suggested we have a pure enforcer, or a team of them. The argument is, and has been, why not have a Neil, Konopka, Prust, etc in the lineup in place of someone like Miller?

#54 HOCKEY MATTERS

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 09:49 AM

turning down fights is not always a bad thing when the other team loses an inferior player for 5 minutes. i remember abdelkader was going to go with iginla (bless him) but the refs got in the middle - that would have been a good trade. a few years ago cleary went with pronger to get him off of the ice for 5 minutes. we have really smart players.

This. And the success of the Wings power play lately demands that we go 5 on 4 as often as we can.
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#55 jollymania

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 11:06 AM

another thing is we need guys like ott or clutterbuck, the problem is they are worth as much as filppula or kronwall, thus we can't have them unless we give up something significant

You're off base here. No poster in this thread suggested we have a pure enforcer, or a team of them. The argument is, and has been, why not have a Neil, Konopka, Prust, etc in the lineup in place of someone like Miller?

miller is only 50,000 mroe than konopka, konopka is useless, miller is an awesome penalty killer, neil is waaaay more expensive, and prust is more expensive and at the moment more valuable to his team
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#56 WorkingOvertime

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 11:17 AM

another thing is we need guys like ott or clutterbuck, the problem is they are worth as much as filppula or kronwall, thus we can't have them unless we give up something significant


miller is only 50,000 mroe than konopka, konopka is useless, miller is an awesome penalty killer, neil is waaaay more expensive, and prust is more expensive and at the moment more valuable to his team

Have you ever seen Konopka play? How many Isles games have you watched this year or Lightning games last year? I'd post his stats but I'm on my phone. To say Konopka is useless shows a lack of knowledge on your part.

#57 Doc Holliday

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 11:34 AM

Have you ever seen Konopka play? How many Isles games have you watched this year or Lightning games last year? I'd post his stats but I'm on my phone. To say Konopka is useless shows a lack of knowledge on your part.


I would not be agaisnt Konopka joining the franchise.

In the place of Drew Miller, however, and it would be a lateral move to marginal improvement. Either way, I like how Miller is finding his niche on the team. Especially considering the fourth line is our most consistent line on the team right now.

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#58 jollymania

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 12:05 PM

Have you ever seen Konopka play? How many Isles games have you watched this year or Lightning games last year? I'd post his stats but I'm on my phone. To say Konopka is useless shows a lack of knowledge on your part.

I have him on my fantasy watch list, of course i follow his stats, he only has 1 goal and 5 assists, -8, 30 sog, 10 min toi
Miller: 3 g 8 a +2 11:30 toi, 45 sog

all konopka can do is fight, he doesn't have many big hits and certainly no game changers, so he isn't useless but damn near

adn i have watched at least 20 games of each team this year and last, unless you are a raging fan of either team i doubt you have watched many more

Edited by jollymania, 25 January 2011 - 12:07 PM.

"I assure you the hits along the boards he(Aaron Downey) constantly threw SEVERAL TIMES EVERY SHIFT were far more damaging hits that what Kronwall throws."
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#59 ACallToArms

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 12:27 PM

What upsets me more than anything, is when Janssen hits Kronwall with a cheapshot, or Kostopoupus injuring Stuart, and no one does anything about it. These guys are supposed to be friends and teammates, yet they don't do a good job of standing up for each other in those situations. I know that wouldn't change the outcome of those injuries or games, but it'd be nice to show somef****** backbone in those scenarios and go after the guy who did it. I think that probably upsets guys like Lindsay and Kocur more than anything else.


Yeah, that's great and all, but the NHL , whether you like it or not, is cutting down that aspect of the game. The refs barely let the players fight anymore, and most of the fights that they do let occur pale in comparison to fights in the past. If McCarty pulled the s*** he did back in the day in today's NHL, he'd be suspended. The NHL is actively taking enforcers out of the game, yet this buffoon of an author is criticizing the Wings for getting the job done, even without an enforcer presence.

It is long past time to draft more North American players that play with heart and would do anything to win the Stanley Cup. Remember Stevie Yzerman playing on his busted up leg, trying to win? Do you see any one with that type of heart on this team?


Did Don Cherry write this article? Blanket statements and xenophobia in one paragraph!

Let's hope the "Holland House" becomes a thing of the past real soon.


Yeah, let's get rid of the GM of what the entire league says is the model franchise in the NHL... :rolleyes:

#60 newfy

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 12:32 PM


Punching people and being punched...that does not make you tough. A goon with no skill might be tough, but not because he fights. Toughness is being able to overcome adversity in the forms it manifests itself as. For the Wings, it often seems to be an opponent where many of you guys start flipping out because we don't have an enforcer. But the Wings get through, because they have tough players like Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Holmstrom, Draper, Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Osgood.

You can have your team full of Colton Orrs and Derek Boogards. I'll take a team full of Zetterbergs, Datsyuks, Lidstroms, or Kronwalls.

Eva you are ridiculous, sorry but you are one of the few who dont consider a guy who fights tough. You take a punch from Colton Orr for a living and then tell me that isn't just as tough as what Homer does.

Seriously if thats what you consider toughness the nthats fine but its not what we are discussing here in this thread, overcoming adversity is a form of toughness sure. But in hockey a tough guy is someone who will throw huge hits, and drop the gloves, its pretty straight forward. We can argue that deifnition all we want but it doesn't change the fact that the wings are missing a "tough" player like Drake and if one was added in place of Miller (who was s*** in the playoffs last year) that it would help this team.

Someone please tell me what Miller provides that someone like Konopka or Rupp couldn't? Or else its just pretty obvious you guys just like soft hockey.

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