86 replies to this topic

[WorkingOvertime]

Here an enforcer is designated as a player like Boll, Prust, Neil, Konopka, Rupp, etc, and not someone like Boogard, Koci, Gillies, etc.

I think that most of the enforcer debate revolves around a person's hockey history, and I am hoping this poll can prove (or disprove) my theory.

[Doc Holliday]

Support over who? In what role?

You can be indifferent to a signing, you know.

[Echolalia]

One of the bloggers at sports.yahoo.com recently came out with an article about enforcers vs tough players. Maybe it will help you prove or disprove your theory.

http://sports.yahoo....?urn=nhl-312277

PS, you could say he played hockey in NA, too.

edit: Doc I just saw you posted the same link in the identical enforcer thread earlier.

Edited by Echolalia, 25 January 2011 - 06:01 PM.

[WorkingOvertime]

Support over who? In what role?

You can be indifferent to a signing, you know.

In general. I tried to leave it ambiguous so the results weren't skewed by people's feelings for any one player. Basically, it is your overall feeling about the subject- if you think the Wings should have a player like this or not.

[Doc Holliday]

Who just called XM radio about this subject?

[cjm502]

I dont care if we have an enforcer, as long as he is also as skilled or more skilled than one of out current players. I am fine without an enforcer too, I really dont care if we have some idiot out there skating around dropping the gloves.

[WorkingOvertime]

I dont care if we have an enforcer, as long as he is also as skilled or more skilled than one of out current players. I am fine without an enforcer too, I really dont care if we have some idiot out there skating around dropping the gloves.

As I said in the topic, the player would be of the skill level of Konopka, Rupp, Neil, etc. To me, this is similar (+ or - a few points) to what we will see from Miller or Draper on the point production side.

[Konnan511]

This poll is terrible. Prust is the only guy that can actually play hockey. The other two are garbage.

If the poll was "Would Prust be a welcome addition to this team", I would have said yes. But you have two pylons. 2/3 are pylons so I was forced to say no.

Prust would look good in a Winged wheel, as he actually has talents and is really starting to come into his own since last season.

As I said in the topic, the player would be of the skill level of Konopka, Rupp, Neil, etc. To me, this is similar (+ or - a few points) to what we will see from Miller or Draper on the point production side.

Neil and Prust ar emuch much better players than Konopka and Rupp. That's like saying would you trade Helm for a player like Eaves/Miller/Filppula/Franzen? There is such a huge discrepancy in skill and point production.

[WorkingOvertime]

This poll is terrible. Prust is the only guy that can actually play hockey. The other two are garbage.

If the poll was "Would Prust be a welcome addition to this team", I would have said yes. But you have two pylons. 2/3 are pylons so I was forced to say no.

Prust would look good in a Winged wheel, as he actually has talents and is really starting to come into his own since last season.

I'd prefer to keep this discussion in the other thread since this is more of a poll to get people's opinions. However, Konopka and Rupp are far from pylons. Rupp had 19 points last year (pylon?). Konopka's strengths can be found in the other thread. If you don't think Konopka could produce the same (or close to the amount) as Miller with Helm, Eaves instead of Gillies, Martin thae I think we have very different views of Konopka.

[Echolalia]

I don't support a goon being on the team that will accumulate less than 10 points throughout the course of the season and will average a fight/game. I would like a power-forward type though, who can contribute offensively at least as regularly as Miller or Eaves right now, yet can also drop the gloves, lay heavy hits, and wear down the opposition on a nightly basis when need be. The problem with getting someone like that on the roster is cap-space. A player who can score occasionally and hit hard demands more money than a strictly finesse/shooter/passer or strictly tough guy does. When the type of player we're talking about is likely going to have 3rd or 4th line minutes, is it worth the investment in him?

For what its worth, I would love to see Steve Downie in a Wings uniform (if the price is right of course)

[Konnan511]

I'd prefer to keep this discussion in the other thread since this is more of a poll to get people's opinions. However, Konopka and Rupp are far from pylons. Rupp had 19 points last year (pylon?). Konopka's strengths can be found in the other thread. If you don't think Konopka could produce the same (or close to the amount) as Miller with Helm, Eaves instead of Gillies, Martin thae I think we have very different views of Konopka.

My post concerned the poll and your comment in this thread. You have a list of players in the poll, one of which is good while they two others aren't. i think it's highly relevant to mention as I defended my poll pick. And last year was an anomaly for Rupp, it was his first year in 8 years that he had over 9 points.

Edited by Konnan511, 25 January 2011 - 06:02 PM.

[WorkingOvertime]

My post concerned the poll and your comment in this thread. You have a list of players in the poll, one of which is good while they two others aren't. i think it's highly relevant to mention as I defended my poll pick.

Use short handed TOI, TOI, FO% (if relevant), hits, points, etc. to defend your accusations of these 'pylon' players though. My argument for players like this is that they provide as much (or close to) of these measures as our current 12th/13th forwards while bringing other (less measurable) things to the team.

[Finnish Wing]

I'd like to see this kinda poll:

Enforcer - yes/no ?

Post a picture of yourself.
What level of education do you have?

Just out of curiosity.

Edited by Finnish Wing, 25 January 2011 - 06:05 PM.

[WorkingOvertime]

I don't support a goon being on the team that will accumulate less than 10 points throughout the course of the season and will average a fight/game. I would like a power-forward type though, who can contribute offensively at least as regularly as Miller or Eaves right now, yet can also drop the gloves, lay heavy hits, and wear down the opposition on a nightly basis when need be. The problem with getting someone like that on the roster is cap-space. A player who can score occasionally and hit hard demands more money than a strictly finesse/shooter/passer or strictly tough guy does. When the type of player we're talking about is likely going to have 3rd or 4th line minutes, is it worth the investment in him?

For what its worth, I would love to see Steve Downie in a Wings uniform (if the price is right of course)

I agree that my range is a bit ambitious. Basically, I wanted to present players would can put up 15+ points a year while getting in 10+ FM's. There is a large range here, but basically they are guys who will 'enforce' but who will also bring as much (or close to) the amount of offense as the current 4th liners on the Wings.

[F.Michael]

I don't support a goon being on the team that will accumulate less than 10 points throughout the course of the season and will average a fight/game. I would like a power-forward type though, who can contribute offensively at least as regularly as Miller or Eaves right now, yet can also drop the gloves, lay heavy hits, and wear down the opposition on a nightly basis when need be. The problem with getting someone like that on the roster is cap-space. A player who can score occasionally and hit hard demands more money than a strictly finesse/shooter/passer or strictly tough guy does. When the type of player we're talking about is likely going to have 3rd or 4th line minutes, is it worth the investment in him?

For what its worth, I would love to see Steve Downie in a Wings uniform (if the price is right of course)

IMHO the #1 problem with the Red Wings is that we're not seeing these types of players being drafted, and yes - as of now these types of players are in fact a rarity (unlike 15 plus years ago).

[WorkingOvertime]

I'd like to see this kinda poll:

Enforcer - yes/no ?

Post a picture of yourself.
What level of education do you have?

Just out of curiosity.

Yes.
Currently in first year of PhD program.
Pic attached.
Your turn.  Hockey 2.jpg   28.87K   26 downloads

Edited by WorkingOvertime, 25 January 2011 - 06:18 PM.

[HankthaTank]

I'd like to see this kinda poll:

Enforcer - yes/no ?

Post a picture of yourself.
What level of education do you have?

Just out of curiosity.

So wait. Filppula is a member of Mensa now?

Currently in first year of PhD program.

Yeah, but you are from Columbus.

[Konnan511]

IMHO the #1 problem with the Red Wings is that we're not seeing these types of players being drafted, and yes - as of now these types of players are in fact a rarity (unlike 15 plus years ago).

That's my point too. Would you rather spend 2mil on a guy who will fight and put up 20 points, or a guy who will bag 20 goals and 20 assists? For me personally, it's the latter. I'd take a guy who fights, regularly puts up 20 points +/- 5 and makes 1mil +/- .5mil all day long for the fourth line. But I'll pass on the guy who regularly puts up 10 points and fights over the guy who will score 10 goals and add 10 assists.

[HankthaTank]

Give me Danny Cleary and all the intangibles he brings over a knuckle dragger any day.

[Konnan511]

I'd like to see this kinda poll:

Enforcer - yes/no ?

Post a picture of yourself.
What level of education do you have?

Just out of curiosity.

No
3 Masters: Sports Management/Economics/Business Administration