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Enforcer Poll


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#61 Shoreline

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 08:35 PM

I don't support enforcers, or skill players, or boneheads, or tough guys, or divers, or agitaters. I support the Red Wings. I don't believe in overly supporting one type of player in the NHL when it's teamwork and an effective system that the team buys into, effectively turns that into wins. It's almost like trying to talk sense into a religion.

I also chose a null vote. I know. I'm a crappy fence sitter.

Edited by Shoreline, 26 January 2011 - 08:36 PM.


#62 eva unit zero

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 08:49 PM

Fischer


Fischer was everything teams look for in a defenseman. He was big. He was a GREAT skater. He was strong defensively. He had good puck skills. He could hit HARD. He had one of the league's hardest shots, and the offensive side of his game was coming together nicely. Fischer would be a top-10 defenseman in the NHL and Lidstrom would be retired or at least playing in a reduced role if Jiri did not have his heart issue.
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#63 Joey v3.4

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 09:16 PM

Define competitive hockey.

Are you talking college/minor league level? Or does anyone who played on a hockey team when they were six count?

Since by that poll 2/3's of people here have played competitive hockey, and I find that hard to believe, unless everyone is considering the time they played roller hockey in a parking lot to be "Competitive NA hockey".
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#64 GMRwings1983

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 10:03 PM

Enforcers are usually meat heads and take stupid penalties.

The best guys to have who can drop the gloves are McCarty and Lapointe type players, they only fight when they have to, actually play 15-18 minutes a game, and can contribute to the main objective in hockey, outscoring your opponent.


Downey and May took less stupid penalties than Bertuzzi and Salei.

I don't see any basis for your post, unless you consider matching fighting majors as stupid penalties.
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#65 Hockey Convert

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 10:03 PM

As I've said numerous times. It'd be more beneficial to have a 5th/6th Enforcer Type Defenseman as they play more than a 4th line grinder and we all would agree that Ericsson and Salei's spots aren't safe.

Who are some physical enforcer type D men you would like to see?


The conventional wisdom is that a forward is more expendable and can therefore more easily sit in the penalty box; but I see where you're coming from, and would be fine with a D-man.

I watch a lot of Bruins hockey, and they lament wanting a puck-mover defenseman, but from my perspective what they do have is a good corps of physical, punishing defensemen. I like the way Mark Stuart, Dennis Seidenburg, Adam McQuaid and maybe Boychuk play. I'd take any of them in a heartbeat. McQuaid probably fights the most, since Stuart was injured. Otherwise, there's been discussion of Carkner in the Ottawa thread, and I would be happy with that. Shea Weber would be good by me, though I'm honestly not sure how much he could enforce. All I can think of at the moment; I've had a few whiskeys while watching hockey...

Miller, Draper, Eaves, Abs, and Helm, theres 5 people in 3 spots in the bottom 3, and then theres the cap, and that pesky idea that a player that will play 3 minutes a night and sit 5 mines in the box puts more strain on the Wings other lines that just makes this seem like another useless dumb debate about enforcers.


"Useless" is your opinion, and you're making a lot of assumptions without adding a lot of substance.

#66 Shaman

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 10:06 PM

The conventional wisdom is that a forward is more expendable and can therefore more easily sit in the penalty box; but I see where you're coming from, and would be fine with a D-man.

I watch a lot of Bruins hockey, and they lament wanting a puck-mover defenseman, but from my perspective what they do have is a good corps of physical, punishing defensemen. I like the way Mark Stuart, Dennis Seidenburg, Adam McQuaid and maybe Boychuk play. I'd take any of them in a heartbeat. McQuaid probably fights the most, since Stuart was injured. Otherwise, there's been discussion of Carkner in the Ottawa thread, and I would be happy with that. Shea Weber would be good by me, though I'm honestly not sure how much he could enforce. All I can think of at the moment; I've had a few whiskeys while watching hockey...



"Useless" is your opinion, and you're making a lot of assumptions without adding a lot of substance.

Useless because we can debate this idea all night and all day its not going to materialize an enforcer on to the wings.
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#67 newfy

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 10:16 PM

I don't really give a crap whether we have an enforcer or not so long as we win the cup. Teams have won with and they've won without, including the Wings.


There are people on the roster now that are as physical and fight as much as Drake (in his last year, I mean, not prime Drake). As for D-Mac.. well, he was at the twilight of his career, and that included his enforcing ability.

The wings have never won a cup without a guy considered an enforcer, just sayin'. I dont think this means you need an enforcer to win, but in playoffs you can't get by on just skill, there needs to be balance. And this team has NO forwards capable of doing what Drake did on that playoff run. Abdelkader in a couple years maybe but Drake was a machine.

As I've said numerous times. It'd be more beneficial to have a 5th/6th Enforcer Type Defenseman as they play more than a 4th line grinder and we all would agree that Ericsson and Salei's spots aren't safe.

Who are some physical enforcer type D men you would like to see?

I think a defenseman like that would be beneficial, but it is better to have a forward as the designated enforcer type because its easier to compensate for him while he is serving 5 minutes.

The ideal guy would be Carkner, I dont know if he would be available but he is cheap, can PK play over 15 minutes a night and is a top 3 tough guy.

Boston has a bunch of guys, Mcquaid would be a good 6th defenseman.

Salei really isn't that great back there that he couldn't be replaced with a guy like that, we could use a bit more bite back there really. Ericcson's physical game would probably step up if he was partnered with a guy like Carkner as well. Sheldon Brookbank would be just as good as Salei too.

Itll be interesting to see who we sign to play the 6th spot after this season

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#68 Hockey Convert

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 10:23 PM

Useless because we can debate this idea all night and all day its not going to materialize an enforcer on to the wings.


OK. In that sense, nothing said on these forums is "useful". My opinion, the conversations are interesting; but from your point of view, not sure why you bother reading or posting at all unless your name is Ken Holland because it would be "useless". Not going to derail the thread by continuing down this track, though.

To newfy: I forgot about Brookbank. That might be good too.

#69 Shaman

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 11:07 PM

OK. In that sense, nothing said on these forums is "useful". My opinion, the conversations are interesting; but from your point of view, not sure why you bother reading or posting at all unless your name is Ken Holland because it would be "useless". Not going to derail the thread by continuing down this track, though.

To newfy: I forgot about Brookbank. That might be good too.

Don't worry I will. It has been shown since the institution of the cap a team must pick its players a lot more carefully than they had to before. A one dimensional enforcer aren't a part of what the Wings Philosophy uses to make a complete team. The wings system is built around two scoring lines that are also defensively sound, a third energy line that can score on occasion and a fourth with young kids/shut down players. I would support a 5th/6th physical defenseman who also can fight because that would fit into the wings system better.
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#70 wings1110

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 11:11 PM

itsf****** entertaining, and why do we watch the wings? cuz itsf****** entertaining, and it would be more entertaining if the wings beat the s*** out of some people in the process.

#71 Konnan511

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 11:14 PM

Our third and fourth lines are perfect. I would not want to mess with them at all. They all have speedy guys who keep the puck in the opponents zone all game long, you just simply do not mess with that.

Our third pairing defense, could use a shake up.
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#72 HOCKEY MATTERS

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 11:35 PM

itsf****** entertaining, and why do we watch the wings? cuz itsf****** entertaining, and it would be more entertaining if the wings beat the s*** out of some people in the process.

+1 Ahh for s***'s sake, that is just gold! Manage the fight card to keep the time in the box to an acceptable level and grab that can-o-whoopass. I would be very entertained and very happy.
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#73 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 11:50 PM

Our third and fourth lines are perfect. I would not want to mess with them at all. They all have speedy guys who keep the puck in the opponents zone all game long, you just simply do not mess with that.

Our third pairing defense, could use a shake up.

Agreed, Salei was mediocre at best tonight.
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#74 Shady Ultima

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 12:25 AM

Enforcers are usually meat heads and take stupid penalties.

The best guys to have who can drop the gloves are McCarty and Lapointe type players, they only fight when they have to, actually play 15-18 minutes a game, and can contribute to the main objective in hockey, outscoring your opponent.

pla

I think that's the type of player most people here want. We don't want a dumb meathead who can barely skate, we want players that can play, but are willing to fight to defend their team-mates.

#75 Joey v3.4

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 03:00 AM

Our third and fourth lines are perfect. I would not want to mess with them at all. They all have speedy guys who keep the puck in the opponents zone all game long, you just simply do not mess with that.

Our third pairing defense, could use a shake up.


Yep, lately our 3rd and 4th lines are playing a better puck possession game than our top lines are.

I like our current team, and I like our prospects. We could be a LOT worse off.

I think it would be nice to have an Enforcer on the books, someone we could call up from the minors for a few games here and there, or in a particularly chippy playoff series....but I don't think we should replace anyone on the current roster with an enforcer type. Even our rookies are playing our system well, and showing marked improvement.

What I would like is for guys like Applefritter to take a more physical role.

In the playoffs a lot of our guys step up their physical play. If we lose in the playoffs, I firmly believe that it is not the lack of an enforcer that will do it. I'll eat my words if I'm wrong, and we get the crap beat out of us, but until then I happen to like having the highest scoring roster in the entire NHL. Just saying, a pretty big accomplishment considering we're missing half a dozen guys.

Edited by Joey v3.4, 27 January 2011 - 03:01 AM.

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#76 GSBrooks13

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 11:53 AM

The one thing I have noticed is that since all of the injuries have piled up the Wings have been even more reluctant to fight.. Before the injuries there was usually a fight every few games with either Abby or Ericsson.. I dont have the exact numbers but I dont believe anyone has fought since the injuries started to add up. Not sure if it's just a coincidence or maybe Babcock told them to focus on picking up the slack as opposed to fighting..


But to answer the poll, Yes I do think the Wings could benefit from carrying an enforcer.. I mean when the injuries are all healed up its going to result in at least one or two players being scratched each night, if you are gonna have a player who only plays every 2nd or 3rd game anyways, why not make it an enforcer? I love the Wings but I don't think I have been as disappointed in them as when Stuart got wrecked and no one even looked at the player who did it (Kostopolous?)..

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#77 F.Michael

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 12:41 PM

The one thing I have noticed is that since all of the injuries have piled up the Wings have been even more reluctant to fight.. Before the injuries there was usually a fight every few games with either Abby or Ericsson.. I dont have the exact numbers but I dont believe anyone has fought since the injuries started to add up. Not sure if it's just a coincidence or maybe Babcock told them to focus on picking up the slack as opposed to fighting..


But to answer the poll, Yes I do think the Wings could benefit from carrying an enforcer.. I mean when the injuries are all healed up its going to result in at least one or two players being scratched each night, if you are gonna have a player who only plays every 2nd or 3rd game anyways, why not make it an enforcer? I love the Wings but I don't think I have been as disappointed in them as when Stuart got wrecked and no one even looked at the player who did it (Kostopolous?)..

To be honest I can't remember when either of those 2 dropped the gloves; it's been a while.

As for the Stuart/Kostopolous hit - I agree with ya there...Too many Red Wings doing nothing about it, but then again this team simply isn't built for that sort of hockey.

And I agree with other posters above; the Bruins D does indeed have some snarl (and they're a fun team to watch)...Wouldn't mind seeing any 1 of the Bruin Dmen mentioned donning a Red Wings jersey in the near future.

Edited by F.Michael, 27 January 2011 - 12:46 PM.


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#78 WorkingOvertime

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 04:11 PM

Define competitive hockey.

Are you talking college/minor league level? Or does anyone who played on a hockey team when they were six count?

Since by that poll 2/3's of people here have played competitive hockey, and I find that hard to believe, unless everyone is considering the time they played roller hockey in a parking lot to be "Competitive NA hockey".

I'm surprised how many are voting that they played competitive NA hockey. I would define it as Peewee or older travel hockey (or competitive high-school). Anything lower has much less of a physical presence. Personally, I played A/AA/AAA travel, high-school, and college club. A lot of people I know played juniors, but these days anything less than Jr. A is pretty useless (but certainly an experience) in 'going somewhere' with hockey.

#79 NGKEIB

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 05:08 PM

Don't worry - I'm not vain, I'm just sarcastic (and incredibly good-looking).

This is something that I dont get either, people are always like, well the wings always win so why change anything?

But the fact of the matter is, the times that Detroit has won the cup, they have had some very physical players in their lineup and have not won when they have not. I'm not saying an enforcer, but they have always had guys with a mean streak. It can be argued whether or not this is true, but I think physicality has a larger impact than most people on here would like to acknowledge.

Drake and Mccarty in 08 on forward, Stuart and Kronwall on defense

02 had a Mccarty, Shanny, a younger Chelios, Fischer (broke his stick across a guys face in the finals, god I miss him :( )

and everyone knows how tough the 97 and 98 teams were.

I think being physical in the playoffs is really underrated on these boards, partially because a lot of people haven't played hockey and partially because a lot of fans became fans when they became more euopeanized


I agree with what you say. But let's not get side-tracked (and I'm not saying you were leading anyone down this path) - I would rather have a heavy-hitting fourth line to wear out opposition than a one-dimensional guy (the irony being that everyone in this thread agrees with that sentiment). Let's get a group of loose forwards who can hit those rucks and make some punishing tackles and go from there. I would rather have Willem 'The Pain' Alberts than Drew 'Peel Off/If My Brother Wasn't Ryan I Wouldn't Be Here' Miller.
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#80 Barrie

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 06:11 PM

Downey and May took less stupid penalties than Bertuzzi and Salei.

I don't see any basis for your post, unless you consider matching fighting majors as stupid penalties.

Living close to Toronto whenever people say enforcer all I think of is Domi or Colton Orr, guys who play 5 minutes and have no offensive skill at all. No thanks. Give me a McCarty or Lapointe type any day, they play 15-18 minutes a game and can score 15 goals a year.
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