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Shades of Fedorov?


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#41 Grim

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 05:19 PM

will fedorov end up in HHOF?

#42 Booster313

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 06:13 PM

I think you can connect really any athletes if you want it's your perception... And perception is everything... But No Franzen is great on his own, he quickly fades compared to Fedorov but then most would.

What kind of color is red? Red is a warning, a declaration, a color that says I'm ready to do what it takes. Red is focused and driven because red doesn't like second place. So what kind of color is red? Their kind.

#43 Konnan511

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 06:14 PM

will fedorov end up in HHOF?


First ballot w/o question. It's the hockey hall of fame and not the NHL hall of fame (which he'd be a lock for). He has 10 international medals (5 gold). Plus, he holds a lot of "only player ever" records too.
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#44 Broken 16

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 06:17 PM

I think you can connect really any athletes if you want it's your perception... And perception is everything... But No Franzen is great on his own, he quickly fades compared to Fedorov but then most would.



Ya. I was trying more to illustrate how Franzen seems to be annoying me in the same fashion Fedorov used to back in the day. Guess I failed. :)


Beyond the annoyance factor, there is no comparison, really.

#45 Booster313

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 06:39 PM

Ya. I was trying more to illustrate how Franzen seems to be annoying me in the same fashion Fedorov used to back in the day. Guess I failed. :)


Beyond the annoyance factor, there is no comparison, really.


I can see the annoyance factor as the both underachieve at times and they both step it up at times, but I think that Fedorov underachieving still put him ahead of Franzen most of the time, and when Fedorov turned it on... Well then you have to start looking at Wayne, Mario, Yzerman, Howe for comparisons. I think (and I will probably catch a lot of flack for this) Fedorov was the most purely raw talented player to ever where the Winged Wheel and had he applied himself on a daily basis could have been one of the greatest of all time.

What kind of color is red? Red is a warning, a declaration, a color that says I'm ready to do what it takes. Red is focused and driven because red doesn't like second place. So what kind of color is red? Their kind.

#46 dobbles

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 06:45 PM

I realize the comparison is obvious given the 5 goal game. And I also realize that Fedorov had a much deeper skill set but Franzen is reminding me of Fedorov in a LOT of other ways...

1) Stud in the playoffs
2) Sometimes I feel like he just doesn't give a s***
3) I feel like Franzen could just turn it on at any second and take over a game if he wanted to
4) Makes impossible things look easy and almost looks bored doing it sometimes (not in a Fedorov 'freak of nature' way, but that skate to stick goal was ridiculous)


i appreciate the thread and your attempt to stir up conversation. i am not sure i 100% agree with you, but definitely understand where you are coming from.

federov and franzen are both guys that can look like they want to be anywhere other than on the ice. whether or not they really are being lazy or apathetic is kind of irrelevant. because as fans 99.9999% of the time, we will never know if a player if going 100%. but we certainly have our perceptions. and you are saying you get the same perception watching them and the same frustration. i can definitely see the comparison.

just wanted to give some support as everyone on here is so negative and hateful.

I love Maltby, but to say he wasn't a ****** is a dis-service to his career of douchebaggery.


#47 HankthaTank

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 06:51 PM

Fedorov was the most purely raw talented player to ever where the Winged Wheel and had he applied himself on a daily basis could have been one of the greatest of all time.

I would debate Lidstrom on this particular statement but Fedorov was just unreal and at time made you just shake your head. Datsyuk also.
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#48 dicksmack

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 07:07 PM

Shades of Fedorov? I get what you're saying in that you have the idea that if Franzen came to play with a high level of intensity every game, he'd be be unstoppable. With fedorov, I recall going to games and being very disappointed that Feddy was totally dis-interesed and invisible. There were many nights where he just mailed it in. With Franzen, I'm not so sure it's attributable to laziness. I remember when he started scoring big goals in the playoffs, he remarked in the post games that it was really exciting for him to be scoring game winners because he WASN'T USED TO IT. His goal scoring ability has emerged as a strength of his and perhaps he himself doesn't quite yet have a handle on it. I've seen games where he is going right to the net repeatedly and coming very close to multiple goal games. I think the jury is still out on the Mule and his magic wrist shot.
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#49 LeftWinger

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 07:09 PM

I would debate Lidstrom on this particular statement but Fedorov was just unreal and at time made you just shake your head. Datsyuk also.

now there's a debate! I believe with 100%, that if Fedorov was a defenseman (FULLTIME) and still had all the two way dominating talent that he possessed while here, HE would be the one with all the Norris' and he would be considered better than Lidstrom. He wold also be rivaling Orr, if not have passed him up in Norris Trophy's.


edit: Fedorov has 136 less Red Wing points than Lidstrom, but has played in 554 LESS Red Wing games than Lidstrom. Fedorov career average as a Red Wing is 1.05 PPG, Lidstom's is .74 PPG. I know this is comparing a forward to a defensman, but you have to believe that Fedorov would still score more points than Lids considering his offensive dominance. Being a top defender, he would also be on the ice more than he was as a forward, so you would have to factor that in too... I aint knocking Lidstrom at all, don't get me wrong.

Edited by LeftWinger, 03 February 2011 - 07:21 PM.

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#50 Konnan511

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 07:19 PM

now there's a debate! I believe with 100%, that if Fedorov was a defenseman (FULLTIME) and still had all the two way dominating talent that he possessed while here, HE would be the one with all the Norris' and he would be considered better than Lidstrom. He wold also be rivaling Orr, if not have passed him up in Norris Trophy's.


Very true. He would have been a Mike Green/Brooks Orpik/Chara/ Niedermayer hybrid. Super offensive, while playing fantastic shut down defense with a booming shot and amazing speed.
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#51 Broken 16

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 07:29 PM

i appreciate the thread and your attempt to stir up conversation. i am not sure i 100% agree with you, but definitely understand where you are coming from.

federov and franzen are both guys that can look like they want to be anywhere other than on the ice. whether or not they really are being lazy or apathetic is kind of irrelevant. because as fans 99.9999% of the time, we will never know if a player if going 100%. but we certainly have our perceptions. and you are saying you get the same perception watching them and the same frustration. i can definitely see the comparison.

just wanted to give some support as everyone on here is so negative and hateful.



Thank you sir. I'm actually catching a LOT LESS flamage than I expected. Fedorov topics are dicey at best around these parts. :)

#52 HankthaTank

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 07:32 PM

now there's a debate! I believe with 100%, that if Fedorov was a defenseman (FULLTIME) and still had all the two way dominating talent that he possessed while here, HE would be the one with all the Norris' and he would be considered better than Lidstrom. He wold also be rivaling Orr, if not have passed him up in Norris Trophy's.

Well yeah, definitely Feds could possibly be one of the greatest defenseman all time had he played it more. With Nick having to play a more shutdown role on defense I am not sure the points thing holds a whole lot of water yet there is a lot of truth to what you are saying in this above post. But maybe this is the particular thread that should be brought up.... Who has/had the most RAW talent to ever wear the winged wheel. Posted Image To me, it truly is between Nick and Sergei in the history but I wasn't around during 30's-late 80's so would be a tad tough for me to really say it's just those 2. Would be tough to find 2 more all-around talented players than them though.

Edited by HankthaTank, 03 February 2011 - 07:32 PM.

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#53 Konnan511

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 07:33 PM

If I was starting a team and could have either player in their prime (meaning before the concussions set it), I'd take Lindros. Fedorov never had to carry the Wings.

Still, to answer what eva said about Fedorov, and what I posted in the above thread, Bobby Orr is the most complete, perfect player in NHL history. Lindros just jumped into my mind first, but then I immediately thought of Bobby Orr.


Fedorov was back at it again, showing his incredible talents in the playoffs in the Stanley Cup run of 2002, when he took up the slack while Yzerman missed most of the second half of the season and basically played on one leg for most of the playoffs. Yzerman privately sought out Sergei in the aftermath of the Cup celebration and told Fedorov how proud he was of him for taking over when the team needed him the most.


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#54 LeftWinger

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 07:35 PM

Also taking nothing away from Franzen's performance last night, 5 goals in one game is a great accomplishment. BUT (there's always a but) looking back over the highlights of Fedorov's 5 goal game, none were on a 5on3 powerplay and there was no empty net goal. Man, watching that video, I miss Sergei... We were truly blessed having him here in Detroit...

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#55 HankthaTank

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 07:39 PM

Nevermind the Russian broadcast, just mute lol...


vs.


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#56 LeftWinger

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 07:49 PM

Well yeah, definitely Feds could possibly be one of the greatest defenseman all time had he played it more. With Nick having to play a more shutdown role on defense I am not sure the points thing holds a whole lot of water yet there is a lot of truth to what you are saying in this above post. But maybe this is the particular thread that should be brought up.... Who has/had the most RAW talent to ever wear the winged wheel. Posted Image To me, it truly is between Nick and Sergei in the history but I wasn't around during 30's-late 80's so would be a tad tough for me to really say it's just those 2. Would be tough to find 2 more all-around talented players than them though.

Well, honestly, I do believe that Fedorov was the greatest modern day Red Wing of all time, BUT watching Steve Yzerman play in the mid to late 80's, before Fedorov showed up, its hard to not put Steve in that raw talent category. If Steve didn't have the misfortune of playing his best offensive days while with a couple other guys in league (not sure, but I think they were called Gretzky and Lemieux) Yzerman EASILY would have won a few Hart trophies during that time. Top 5 Red Wings of all time are Yzerman, Fedorov, Lidstrom, Howe & Delvecchio. (not necessarily in that order) Don't look now, though, Pavel Datsyuk in currently 9th all time in Red Wings scoring with 631 points with three years left on this current contract, he will probably pass Feds up in points if he re-signs and remains a Red Wing for his entire career. I don't think he'll catch Yzerman or Howe, but he may pass Lidstrom up too, and then in ten years our debate will be who was better, Feds or Dats...

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#57 eva unit zero

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 07:57 PM

I made a mistake. I should have put a picture of Bobby Orr up. He was a perfect player that could do anything on the ice on either side of the ice. He's the closest anyone has been to a perfect player, at least by looking at the description you just wrote down of Fedorov.

As for Lindros, he was a bigger force in front of the net than Fedorov, and one of the best hitters in league history. He was a beast to play against night after night, unlike Fedorov, who often took nights off as others have said. Lindros was also great at faceoffs and a very good fighter. For a guy that size to have that kind of skill set and aggressiveness, is unprecedented. Physicality and hitting was just never a part of Fedorov's game.

Lindros could run over you or go around you.


Lindros was definitely a great hitter, something he has over Fedorov. But Fedorov was a good hitter, and very underrated in that department. He was not a dominating physical player in the Lindros sense, but he definitely could play the physical game and could hit well; IMHO he was better at the physical game than Orr.

Honestly I think the completeness of Orr's game is heavily overrated. While he was a great player, he was not nearly as perfect or complete as he is credited with being. And when they started tracking 'hits' as a stat, Fedorov was hitting as much as Shanahan, Simon, or Domi. Hardly can say he wasn't physical with that kind of company.

He wasn't as aggressive physically and wasn't a fighter like those guys, but he certainly played a physical game. Much in the same vein as Mario Lemieux, he would either take the puck around you or he would take it through you.


Top 5 Red Wings of all time are Yzerman, Fedorov, Lidstrom, Howe & Sawchuk


Fixed.
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#58 Broken 16

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 07:58 PM

Well yeah, definitely Feds could possibly be one of the greatest defenseman all time had he played it more. With Nick having to play a more shutdown role on defense I am not sure the points thing holds a whole lot of water yet there is a lot of truth to what you are saying in this above post. But maybe this is the particular thread that should be brought up.... Who has/had the most RAW talent to ever wear the winged wheel. Posted Image To me, it truly is between Nick and Sergei in the history but I wasn't around during 30's-late 80's so would be a tad tough for me to really say it's just those 2. Would be tough to find 2 more all-around talented players than them though.


Those two come to mind. I'm tempted to throw Vladdy into the mix of raw talent but he was more of a throwback talent, but god he was sick.

Lidstrom is like Fedorov's opposite. Fedorov had raw talent that was nearly unrivaled, but a weaker will. Seemed easier to distract. Sometimes got carried away and tried to do it all by himself. Lidstrom on the other hand, seems to rely more on a superior intellect. Makes zero mistakes. Is rock steady on and off the ice and is much more of a role model type player.

#59 HankthaTank

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 08:02 PM

Those two come to mind. I'm tempted to throw Vladdy into the mix of raw talent but he was more of a throwback talent, but god he was sick.

Lidstrom is like Fedorov's opposite. Fedorov had raw talent that was nearly unrivaled, but a weaker will. Seemed easier to distract. Sometimes got carried away and tried to do it all by himself. Lidstrom on the other hand, seems to rely more on a superior intellect. Makes zero mistakes. Is rock steady on and off the ice and is much more of a role model type player.

Watching the old videos, and especially recently replaying the March 26, 1997 Wings-Avs game, Nick's talent out there at just about everything is just mind-boggling. But when Sergei was out there, he was flat-out the best player on the ice. It was sickening how he would just blow by everyone. Nick's intelligence, quickness to the puck and to make the right decision, shot, and lead passes are probably the very best. Raw talent has many definitions but damn it, they were both great. Pav will definitely be on that list when its all said and done, I am confident in that one.
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#60 HankthaTank

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 08:12 PM

I must add, that Sergei was definitely my favorite player growing up in the 90's. His game was just the most noticeable on the ice. The end to end playmaking ability that he had was just jaw-dropping. Had the white, Fedorov Nike skates, the Nike stick he had and the Fedorov jersey. It was amazing how he just made literally everything seem like it required zero effort. Once he left, Nick became my favorite. They just had my favorite type of skills. Just effortless and smooth as silk. I have grown to appreciate more and more what we have had a chance to see back then and just cherish every moment #5 is on the ice for us. It is something most Wings fans have to just sit back and think about one day. I know as an old man, I will just be able to marvel at what we had the chance to watch. Stevie, Sergei, Lids, Pav, Hank, Vladdy, Igor. Just a humbling thing.
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