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Hockeymom1960

Isles vs Pens

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There's a huge difference between a problem child and an employee who reflects poorly on your company. You can't fire a child.

Then think of it as an employee who reflects poorly on your company but is extremely effective at what he does and improves your company by being there (which he does since he still puts up a good chunk of points).

Like I've said before, Cooke shouldn't be in the league, but the stuff he does is the exact same stuff OV, Mike Richards and Daniel Briere do, except when he does it it's under a microscope.

But again, Mario wasn't arguing that those players shouldn't be in the league, he's arguing a whole game shouldn't be that style of hockey because it's a clear intent of removing a pound of flesh from your opponent.

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From TSN:

Steve Yzerman wants to hear more from Mario Lemieux.

"I think Mario is one of the most well-respected, intelligent people in the game," the Tampa Bay Lightning GM said Monday on a conference call. "I would encourage him (and) I think we should all encourage him to get more involved with the league because he has a lot to offer."

...

They should all get more involved; unfortunately, as of right now, they choose not to.

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I think that if Mario had just said this isn't the way this game should be played and we need to do something about it, everyone would be fine with that, Matt Cooke or no. Where he really crosses over into petulance is when he goes on to say "I'm not sure I want to be a part of this league." If that's how he feels, fine; say it in the board room, not to the media. What he said and the way he went about it smacks of a double standard on his part.

And the favoritism is horrifically blatant in not reprimanding him at the very least. No one else has ever gotten away with calling out the NHL in public.

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Nice article from Scott Burnside on espn.com calling Mario out.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?columnist=burnside_scott&id=6120121

This was my favorite part of that article:

"You think the Islanders liked how this played out? Sources tell ESPN.com the Islanders were saying Sunday that they were the ones getting done over by the league and this was a conspiracy on the NHL's part to protect the Penguins."

I thought comments like these were reserved for Jealous-of-Crosby tin foil hat wearing fans of other teams? :hehe:

esteef

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And the favoritism is horrifically blatant in not reprimanding him at the very least. No one else has ever gotten away with calling out the NHL in public.

Exactly.

This is just another example of the League pretty much outright saying that Pittburgh gets preferential treatment, and doesn't have to follow the same rules all the other teams have to. Pathetic.

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The idea that Martin's hit was anything like Bert's is ridiculous. Not EVEN close. Pulled Talbot down by dumping him on his ass as he was turtling. Four games appropriate.

Gilles hit was pretty nasty. Hit him up high then punching him as he is obviously stunned/hurt. Then continued to chirp him as he was laying on the ice.

Nine games is pretty heavy, but it makes the point.

Godard coming off the bench is an automatic suspension. Good to see the league hand this out. I understand the idea of protecting your goaltender, but Johnson is ready to go... The mugging by Johnson and Godard on Hillen... :lol: cripes, I'd love to have Hillen on my team.

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There's only 4 players on the Pens bench now. This game is getting out of hand lol.

Clearly the Pens are having their yambags handed to them tonight.

lol 9-3 with I think 4 players on each bench.

Okay now there are only 2 players on the bench for the Pens. OMG haha

It makes me happy to think of the Pengo fans sad! :D

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Mario, get rid of Cooke, Talbot, Adams and Orpik and then we can speak...

When he was playing against Kasparaitis, Kaspar was the dirtiest player, once he end up playing with him, he was one the best... same thing goes for Ulf Samuelsson...

Edited by Dominator2005

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Not at all. One player doesn't make a team. If they Wings had Cooke (ewwww) and he continually was doing dirty stuff, the Wings wouldn't be known as goons, just for having a goon. Mario didn't call out goons, he called out a team playing with the intent to take a pound of flesh from their opponents during that night.

If I had a problem child, there is no reason I shouldn't be able to call out a family of O'Doyles. It's hypocritical, but it doesn't invalidate my argument. Smokers are right when they say smoking is bad, alcoholics are right when they say alcoholism is wrong.

I do agree, though, his comments were melodramtic. But having Cooke isn't the same thing and it isn't hypocritical since Cooke can pot you 40 points a season if he really tried. he does the same stuff OV does and same stuff Briere does, and hell, even Mike Richards throws those exact same hits.

Mario was right, and Matt Cooke is completely irrelevant. Cooke has never tried to Bertuzzi anyone and never began to pummel a guy he just blindsided that was clearly hurt. All of Cooke's cheapshots, you can find identical hits delivered by highly reputable players, but again, he's never suckerpunched or hit a down opponent who was obviously injured.

Plus, Cooke can continually pot at least 10 goals a season and put up 30 points. Gillies has 9 goals in his entire 12 year career. Matt Martin, thus far in his early early career is a goon. Cooke is a dirty version of Steve Ott basically.

So no, it really doesn't pertain to what Mario was saying. Matt Cooke walks the line and crosses it sometimes, but what Mario is arguing is that an entire game shouldn't be all about cheap shots. So either you (not specifically you) cannot see that or your (not specifically you) pure unadulterated hate for everything Penguins and Crosby is getting in your way. I hate Crosby and the Penguins as the next person, but at least I can see it from mario's/an owners point of view.

His comments may have been about this specific type of game, but they were also about player safety and the integrity of the game so, yes, employing Cooke is absolutely relevant. And Cooke is much worse than any of those other current players you listed. He has a career full of incidents where he deliberately tries to injure players. We're not talking about a Bertuzzi moment, or a questionable hit or two. He's done it over and over and over.

It's not just that he plays for the Pens (though now more people are probably exposed to what a dirty player he is). He was a famous knee on knee artist in Vancouver.

And honestly, I don't hate the Pens, or Mario, or even Crosby (shocking on this forum, I know). But overall Mario comes off like a drama queen for threatening to leave the league. And when you re-sign Cooke, it's going to taint the message when you're lecturing the league on how they should protect players.

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His comments may have been about this specific type of game, but they were also about player safety and the integrity of the game so, yes, employing Cooke is absolutely relevant. And Cooke is much worse than any of those other current players you listed. He has a career full of incidents where he deliberately tries to injure players. We're not talking about a Bertuzzi moment, or a questionable hit or two. He's done it over and over and over.

It's not just that he plays for the Pens (though now more people are probably exposed to what a dirty player he is). He was a famous knee on knee artist in Vancouver.

And honestly, I don't hate the Pens, or Mario, or even Crosby (shocking on this forum, I know). But overall Mario comes off like a drama queen for threatening to leave the league. And when you re-sign Cooke, it's going to taint the message when you're lecturing the league on how they should protect players.

Cooke is not worst than Gillies or Matt Martin. I hate Cooke, but he would NEVER try to Bertuzzi a player or rip the helmet off an injured and proceed to punch them in the head. Cooke can actually play good hockey. Everyone gets a hard on for hockey players that can score 30-40 points a season and fights. Cooke plays the exact same way as OV, Richards and Brier, except they score between 80-100 points a season instead of 40 points a season.

Plus, Cooke doesn't cheapen the integrity of the game, he's just one player. What the majority of the Islanders did that game cheapened the integrity of the game. After the Savard hit, the next game he fought the Bruins' tough guy. After all his cheap shots, he owns up to it and fights. What the Islanders did was for the pure purpose on injury and to send a message.

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Cooke is not worst than Gillies or Matt Martin. I hate Cooke, but he would NEVER try to Bertuzzi a player or rip the helmet off an injured and proceed to punch them in the head. Cooke can actually play good hockey. Everyone gets a hard on for hockey players that can score 30-40 points a season and fights. Cooke plays the exact same way as OV, Richards and Brier, except they score between 80-100 points a season instead of 40 points a season.

Plus, Cooke doesn't cheapen the integrity of the game, he's just one player. What the majority of the Islanders did that game cheapened the integrity of the game. After the Savard hit, the next game he fought the Bruins' tough guy. After all his cheap shots, he owns up to it and fights. What the Islanders did was for the pure purpose on injury and to send a message.

This was Martin's first "offense". Cooke is the definition of repeat offender. While I feel Martin deserved some sort of discipline for the sucker punch, I wouldn't say he's just as bad as Cooke. The suspension on Gillies was harsh, in my opinion.

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This was Martin's first "offense". Cooke is the definition of repeat offender. While I feel Martin deserved some sort of discipline for the sucker punch, I wouldn't say he's just as bad as Cooke. The suspension on Gillies was harsh, in my opinion.

I was more going off the basis that Cooke hadn't done anything nearly as bad as what Martin and Gillie did. Sucker punching someone from behind/side to a completely unsuspecting victim, then continuing to try to pummel them or charging a player from clear across the ice and laying into a guy who doesn't fight, then ripping his helmet off as he laid on the ice in pain an agony then blasting him in the ehad is wayyy worse than anything that Cooke has done.

Cooke plays on the line and crosses it from time to time obviously, but he's never blatantly done anything this bad. The blindside hits were legal at the time and his knees to knees have never taken anyone out for anytime (or at least i don't think so, please correct me if I am wrong!), he's never sucker punched someone or hit a downed opponent. This is all on top of Cooke being a 35 point player as well.

That is why i said he wasn't worse than those two.

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I was more going off the basis that Cooke hadn't done anything nearly as bad as what Martin and Gillie did. Sucker punching someone from behind/side to a completely unsuspecting victim, then continuing to try to pummel them or charging a player from clear across the ice and laying into a guy who doesn't fight, then ripping his helmet off as he laid on the ice in pain an agony then blasting him in the ehad is wayyy worse than anything that Cooke has done.

Cooke plays on the line and crosses it from time to time obviously, but he's never blatantly done anything this bad. The blindside hits were legal at the time and his knees to knees have never taken anyone out for anytime (or at least i don't think so, please correct me if I am wrong!), he's never sucker punched someone or hit a downed opponent. This is all on top of Cooke being a 35 point player as well.

That is why i said he wasn't worse than those two.

Cooke is obviously the biggest agitator this league has seen in a while. He definitely walks that line, but I mean Marc Savard's career is basically over because of the hit (Whether it was legal or not is debatable). The thing is, Cooke has repeatedly proved that he's got no respect for the league's other players. It's one thing to hit hard and finish your checks every time and get in everyone's face, but it's another thing to take knees out and deliberately attempt to seriously injure someone.

As far as Gillies goes, the hit was obviously an elbow, but I don't think Tangradi was innocent. He must have said something or went after someone, because Gillies was really letting him hear it. Not jutifying what Gillies did, but I don't think Tangradi was completely innocent.

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Cooke is obviously the biggest agitator this league has seen in a while. He definitely walks that line, but I mean Marc Savard's career is basically over because of the hit (Whether it was legal or not is debatable). The thing is, Cooke has repeatedly proved that he's got no respect for the league's other players. It's one thing to hit hard and finish your checks every time and get in everyone's face, but it's another thing to take knees out and deliberately attempt to seriously injure someone.

As far as Gillies goes, the hit was obviously an elbow, but I don't think Tangradi was innocent. He must have said something or went after someone, because Gillies was really letting him hear it. Not jutifying what Gillies did, but I don't think Tangradi was completely innocent.

Or Gillies is a ****** and saw a guy against the boards and just saw red and went to work. Players talk s*** all the time, but players also don't do what Gillies did (cross ice charge, pummeling an injured player, taunting him as he laid on this ice in a heap).

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Or Gillies is a ****** and saw a guy against the boards and just saw red and went to work. Players talk s*** all the time, but players also don't do what Gillies did (cross ice charge, pummeling an injured player, taunting him as he laid on this ice in a heap).

Yeah I can't say i've seen anyone do something like that before. I was surprised he didn't come back on the ice to get back into the scrum, to be honest.

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I was more going off the basis that Cooke hadn't done anything nearly as bad as what Martin and Gillie did. Sucker punching someone from behind/side to a completely unsuspecting victim, then continuing to try to pummel them or charging a player from clear across the ice and laying into a guy who doesn't fight, then ripping his helmet off as he laid on the ice in pain an agony then blasting him in the ehad is wayyy worse than anything that Cooke has done.

Cooke plays on the line and crosses it from time to time obviously, but he's never blatantly done anything this bad. The blindside hits were legal at the time and his knees to knees have never taken anyone out for anytime (or at least i don't think so, please correct me if I am wrong!), he's never sucker punched someone or hit a downed opponent. This is all on top of Cooke being a 35 point player as well.

That is why i said he wasn't worse than those two.

As I said on the last page, the actions taken by Martin aren't as dangerous as the actions taken by Cooke. Gillies hit was very similar to Godard's hit, and I don't think the ensuing 'fight' (jumping) was the cause of the concussion.

Why does it matter that Cooke is a 35-point player? I don't know why fans, let alone the league, believe that points are important when it comes to discipline. IMO you compare incidents based on the severity of the rule broken only, not on who the player is.

Edited by WorkingOvertime

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I'm confused. Dean Lombardi rips the officiating and gets fined. Mario Lemieux does the same and gets nothing.

Oh, I forgot who I was talking about and what team he controls. I get it now.

Yup - pretty much why the NHL as a whole is looked upon as a "garage league" by many outsiders :rolleyes:

If this isn't a blatant sign of favortism - then I don't know what is.

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I just hate how most of the talking heads in the media are once again toeing the company line (and yes, even though Lemieux was supposedly speaking against the league, all he was doing was bitching about the league not protecting his little ***** boys - do you honestly think he gives a s*** about Marc Savard or Alexander Ovechkin or anyone else in the league that isn't a Penguin?) and are slobbering all over themselves trying to agree with Lemieux. Even on ESPN yesterday (is the show "Around the Horn" or something?), 3 of the 4 guys were all "Lemieux's the best! Whatever he says is right! This is a tragedy, a tragedy!!!".

If Lemieux wants to take his puck and go home, let him. Let him go and take Crosby with him. The league's better off without their whining, entitled attitudes.

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http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=353743

The NHL intended to deliver a message to all of its players when it punished the New York Islanders over the weekend. It didn't go nearly far enough for one of the greatest to ever play the game.

Mario Lemieux questioned the direction of the league in a scathing statement released Sunday, openly wondering about his future involvement with the NHL after his Pittsburgh Penguins were involved in a fight-filled game with the Islanders.

"Hockey is a tough, physical game, and it always should be," said Lemieux, the Penguins co-owner. "But what happened Friday night on Long Island wasn't hockey. It was a travesty. It was painful to watch the game I love turn into a sideshow like that.

"The NHL had a chance to send a clear and strong message that those kinds of actions are unacceptable and embarrassing to the sport. It failed."

The reaction from Lemieux came a little over 12 hours after Colin Campbell suspended two Islanders players and fined the organization US$100,000.

The NHL disciplinarian travelled to Buffalo on Saturday night and held face-to-face meetings with forwards Trevor Gillies and Matt Martin to discuss their actions. Within hours, Gillies was suspended nine games and Martin was banned four games.

It wasn't enough to satisfy Lemieux.

"We, as a league, must do a better job of protecting the integrity of the game and the safety of our players," the Hockey Hall of Famer said in his statement. "We must make it clear that those kinds of actions will not be tolerated and will be met with meaningful disciplinary action.

"If the events relating to Friday night reflect the state of the league, I need to re-think whether I want to be a part of it."

Lemieux didn't specify exactly what he would have liked to have seen done.

The NHL however sees things quite differently, NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly responded in a statement to TSN's Darren Dreger.

"We are entirely comfortable with how Friday night's events were handled. We have no other response to Mr. Lemieux's statement."

Pittsburgh's Eric Godard also received an automatic 10-game suspension for leaving the bench to fight during the game. The Penguins weren't hit with any other discipline.

The Islanders entered Friday's game still bitter about their previous meeting with Pittsburgh and seemed intent to take matters into their own hands. Gillies gave Eric Tangradi a concussion -- hitting him in the head before punching him in the face and taunting him -- while Martin grabbed an unsuspecting Max Talbot and dropped him with a couple punches.

In announcing the suspensions, Campbell warned that punishments will continue to be harsh for similar infractions down the road.

"The message should be clear to all players: targeting the head of an opponent by whatever means will be dealt with by suspension," he said.

Organizations will also be held accountable.

"The Islanders also must bear some responsibility for their failure to control their players," added Campbell.

Lemieux bought the Penguins out of bankruptcy in 1999 and ended his playing career for good in January 2006. During his days as one of the NHL's brightest stars, he was never shy to criticize the league -- famously referring to it as a "garage league" in 1992 when he was frustrated with all of the hooking and holding that was being allowed at the time.

Until Sunday, he had been largely quiet as an owner.

The Penguins have been at the centre of the discussion about dangerous hits that has raged in recent weeks. Star centre Sidney Crosby remains sidelined with a concussion -- there is still no timetable for his return -- while Pittsburgh forward Matt Cooke received a four-game suspension on Thursday for charging Fedor Tyutin of the Columbus Blue Jackets from behind.

In fact, the Penguins are quite familiar with physical play. Entering Sunday's games, they were tops in the league with 61 fighting majors.

The game against the Islanders included 346 penalty minutes and 10 ejections. Pittsburgh was hammered 9-3.

It came after a Feb. 2 meeting between the teams that saw the Islanders lose Rick DiPietro for four-to-six weeks because of broken bones in his face as the result of a punch from Penguins goalie Brent Johnson.

New York forward Michael Haley went after Johnson on Friday night, prompting Godard to leave the bench in defence of his goaltender.

There were no complaints from the Islanders organization after Campbell made his ruling. Asked if the punishment was fair, GM Garth Snow said the league disciplinarian has a tough job and he would never criticize him.

"I respect the process," Snow said Sunday before the Islanders played at Buffalo. "It was a professionally run process."

Campbell has been particularly busy this season. NHL players have been banned a total of 88 regular-season games over 27 suspensions -- surpassing last year's total of 78 games in 29 suspensions.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=353740

BUFFALO, N.Y. -- New York Islanders general manager Garth Snow can accept the NHL's punishment following a fight-filled game against Pittsburgh.

He's just wondering why the Penguins also weren't fined US$100,000.

Snow spoke Sunday before the Islanders' game at Buffalo, and a day after the NHL suspended two Islanders and fined the team for failing to control its players.

The punishment followed the Islanders' 9-3 win over Pittsburgh on Friday in a game that produced 346 penalty minutes.

The Penguins were not fined, and only Eric Godard was suspended 10 games for leaving the bench to join a third-period brawl.

Snow said he was surprised the Penguins also weren't fined, while noting that no Islanders player left the bench to fight.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=353855

One day after Mario Lemieux leveled criticism at the National Hockey League for the way they handled the brawl between the Pittsburgh Penguins and New York Islanders, tough guy Zenon Konopka offered his own response after practice on Monday in Ottawa.

Konopka, who has 193 penalty minutes in 56 games, said the Penguins owner and NHL Hall of Famer is out of touch with the league and no longer understands the way things are done.

"I can't believe he's that far removed from the game that he doesn't realize in the heat of the moment what happens," said Konopka. "We're trying to keep our best players on the ice, we want John Tavares to be a superstar in this league and play every night."

On Sunday, the Penguins owner said what happened between his team and the Islanders was a "travesty" and "painful to watch".

Trevor Gillies and Matt Martin of the Islanders were suspended nine games and four games, respectively, a sentence too light for Lemieux.

"The NHL had a chance to send a clear and strong message that those kinds of actions are unacceptable and embarrassing to the sport," Lemieux said. "It failed."

As far as Konopka is concerned, the Islanders are not planning to change the way they play the game.

"We're going to do everything we can to protect our players," said Konopka. "It's not an easy job but we're worried about each other, not outsiders."

The Islanders enforcer is planning however to redecorate his home first chance he gets.

"As soon as I get home, I'm going to take the poster off my bedroom door of Mario."

The Islanders face the Senators at Scotiabank Place in Ottawa on Tuesday.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=353871

Text Size

Steve Yzerman wants to hear more from Mario Lemieux.

"I think Mario is one of the most well-respected, intelligent people in the game," the Tampa Bay Lightning GM said Monday on a conference call. "I would encourage him (and) I think we should all encourage him to get more involved with the league because he has a lot to offer."

Lemieux made headlines over the weekend by criticizing the NHL's handling of supplemental discipline following a fight-filled matchup between the New York Islanders and Pittsburgh Penguins.

Calling the game a "travesty," the Penguins co-owner said the NHL failed to send the proper message after fining the Islanders US$100,000 and handing two of the team's players 13 games in suspensions -- nine to Trevor Gillies for an elbow to the head of Eric Tangradi and four to Matt Martin for sucker-punching Max Talbot.

"We must make it clear that those kinds of actions will not be tolerated and will be met with meaningful disciplinary action," Lemieux said in his statement. "If the events relating to Friday night reflect the state of the league, I need to re-think whether I want to be a part of it."

A source confirmed to The Canadian Press on Monday that Lemieux wouldn't be fined by the NHL for his biting comments.

The Hockey Hall of Famer has kept a low profile since ending his playing career in January 2006. While not endorsing Lemieux's criticism of league discipline, Yzerman indicated that he hopes his former Team Canada teammate will continue to speak his mind.

"Specifically, I don't know (what more he could do)," said Yzerman. "Again, Mario is really a bright guy and he's really a good guy and he's been around the league and carries a lot of weight.

"I think everyone would encourage to be more involved in everything we do as a league."

Lemieux was unafraid to vent his frustration as a player -- famously calling the NHL a "garage league" in 1992 -- but has rarely expressed an opinion in his role as an owner.

In fact, he's taken part in just two news conferences over the last 20 months. Lemieux answered questions after an alumni game during the recent Winter Classic in Pittsburgh and a couple hours before Game 1 of the 2009 Stanley Cup final.

His statement Sunday certainly got the hockey world talking.

"Obviously, when Mario says something it has to be heard and respected," said Montreal Canadiens forward Michael Cammalleri. "I think the reason it has such an impact is because of his reputation and his track record. He's never been a whistle-blower or anything like that.

"He's a guy who is so well-respected and his outlook on the game is pretty keen, so when someone like that has something to say we should all probably listen."

The Islanders were among those that didn't like what they heard from Super Mario. Forward Zenon Konopka, who grew up idolizing Lemieux, thought the Penguins owner was off the mark.

"As soon as I get home, I'm going to take the poster off my bedroom door of Mario," Konopka told reporters in Ottawa on Monday afternoon. "I can't believe he is that far removed from the game that he doesn't realize ... in the heat of the moment what happens."

The number of fights around the NHL has risen sharply in the last few weeks as the intensity of playoff races seems to have picked up.

Yzerman was home watching TV on Friday night but didn't catch much of the Penguins-Islanders game that featured 346 penalty minutes and 10 ejections.

"I was watching other games actually at the time and every time I flipped back I missed all the action," said Yzerman. "(But) it's strange, there's been a few brawls lately. We haven't had that much in a long time."

The Lightning are currently in the midst of a record-tying 12-game homestand. On Thursday, they'll host the Detroit Red Wings -- the organization Yzerman spent 27 years with before taking the job with Tampa last May.

Edit: Crap, misspelled Lemieux and Of, can a mod fix it... *facepalm*

Edited by Rivalred

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I have to agree with Lemieux for the most part. I think that s*** with the Isle and Pens was ridiculous and it's the reason people are trying to stop fighting. I'm all for the guys dropping the gloves and settling their problems like men But I am not however a fan of fighting ruining the general sense of the game the overall respect people have for the game. Yeah fighting is part of the game but it doesn't need to be the whole game. This next part is going to sting a little bit...I think because Lemieux is such a respected player and figure in the NHL I think Bettman would be smart to listen to what he has to say and make sure he takes some step to ensure nonsense like this won't be tolerated in the game. Of course, Bettman will probably make a stand the second a Red Wing hits Crosbitch(if his head ever stops hurting). I just think something needs to be done to prevent people like the Isle and the Pens from just destroying the game. It was fun, I watched the game. But as a fan of the game, I think it's sad. I watch hockey to see a lot of hockey and a little bit of fighting not "fight, fight, fight, fight, oh look hockey!"

Just my $.09. That is all.

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