267 replies to this topic

[WorkingOvertime]

I think the Isles were right in making a stand, but I think they could have gone about it in a better manner. IMO Haley went about enforcing in the correct way. I wish Gillies and Martin would have just taken an instigator and forced the players to fight- this may have kept them in the game to create more havok. I have no problem with Gillies/Martin grabbing Talbot, then dropping the gloves and fighting. The Isles needed to push back, and I would rather see this (what happened) than nothing (from an Isles fan point of view- which I'm not).

Mario's comments went too far. I am fine with him coming out against the actions taken against his team, but he took it far past what was needed/justified. I think the Matt Cooke example is a good one. IMO more players are injured by knees/hits from behind/hits to the head than being jumped in the NHL. Godard caused a concussion in this game that was as bad as Gillies hit too.

[akustyk]

the inevitable outcome of this affair is that people feel much more sympathy to the Isles and much less (if there were some left) to Bettman's pamperboys.

and that Mario is whining... did anyone expect something better from him?

[hillbillywingsfan]

It absolutely pertains to Mario's comments. Mario releases a sanctimonious statement about protecting players and the integrity of the game, then he walks into his office and signs Cooke's paycheck. The Pens lead the league in major penalties. They lead the league in PIMs.

It's not that his comments were wrong, they were just hypocritical and melodramatic ("I'm taking my puck and going home!").

If he wants to improve player safety and the integrity of the game, start by not giving dirty players like Matt Cooke a job. Use the Pens franchise as an example of how to improve the integrity and safety of the game, rather than sitting from on high and chastising the NHL for it and threatening to quit (again).

but but but its queen mario. i agree totally with this harold. thank you for not jumping on the poor mario crap that some are doing. It has everything to do like you said. so there is nothing wrong with cooke doing his dirty work over and over but its bad when another team does it to you?

[Konnan511]

It absolutely pertains to Mario's comments. Mario releases a sanctimonious statement about protecting players and the integrity of the game, then he walks into his office and signs Cooke's paycheck. The Pens lead the league in major penalties. They lead the league in PIMs.

It's not that his comments were wrong, they were just hypocritical and melodramatic ("I'm taking my puck and going home!").

If he wants to improve player safety and the integrity of the game, start by not giving dirty players like Matt Cooke a job. Use the Pens franchise as an example of how to improve the integrity and safety of the game, rather than sitting from on high and chastising the NHL for it and threatening to quit (again).

Not at all. One player doesn't make a team. If they Wings had Cooke (ewwww) and he continually was doing dirty stuff, the Wings wouldn't be known as goons, just for having a goon. Mario didn't call out goons, he called out a team playing with the intent to take a pound of flesh from their opponents during that night.

If I had a problem child, there is no reason I shouldn't be able to call out a family of O'Doyles. It's hypocritical, but it doesn't invalidate my argument. Smokers are right when they say smoking is bad, alcoholics are right when they say alcoholism is wrong.


I do agree, though, his comments were melodramtic. But having Cooke isn't the same thing and it isn't hypocritical since Cooke can pot you 40 points a season if he really tried. he does the same stuff OV does and same stuff Briere does, and hell, even Mike Richards throws those exact same hits.

Mario was right, and Matt Cooke is completely irrelevant. Cooke has never tried to Bertuzzi anyone and never began to pummel a guy he just blindsided that was clearly hurt. All of Cooke's cheapshots, you can find identical hits delivered by highly reputable players, but again, he's never suckerpunched or hit a down opponent who was obviously injured.

Plus, Cooke can continually pot at least 10 goals a season and put up 30 points. Gillies has 9 goals in his entire 12 year career. Matt Martin, thus far in his early early career is a goon. Cooke is a dirty version of Steve Ott basically.

So no, it really doesn't pertain to what Mario was saying. Matt Cooke walks the line and crosses it sometimes, but what Mario is arguing is that an entire game shouldn't be all about cheap shots. So either you (not specifically you) cannot see that or your (not specifically you) pure unadulterated hate for everything Penguins and Crosby is getting in your way. I hate Crosby and the Penguins as the next person, but at least I can see it from mario's/an owners point of view.

Edited by Konnan511, 14 February 2011 - 04:31 PM.

[Drake_Marcus]

Not at all. One player doesn't make a team. If they Wings had Cooke (ewwww) and he continually was doing dirty stuff, the Wings wouldn't be known as goons, just for having a goon. Mario didn't call out goons, he called out a team playing with the intent to take a pound of flesh from their opponents during that night.

If I had a problem child, there is no reason I shouldn't be able to call out a family of O'Doyles. It's hypocritical, but it doesn't invalidate my argument. Smokers are right when they say smoking is bad, alcoholics are right when they say alcoholism is wrong.


I do agree, though, his comments were melodramtic. But having Cooke isn't the same thing and it isn't hypocritical since Cooke can pot you 40 points a season if he really tried. he does the same stuff OV does and same stuff Briere does, and hell, even Mike Richards throws those exact same hits.

Mario was right, and Matt Cooke is completely irrelevant. Cooke has never tried to Bertuzzi anyone and never began to pummel a guy he just blindsided that was clearly hurt. All of Cooke's cheapshots, you can find identical hits delivered by highly reputable players, but again, he's never suckerpunched or hit a down opponent who was obviously injured.

Plus, Cooke can continually pot at least 10 goals a season and put up 30 points. Gillies has 9 goals in his entire 12 year career. Matt Martin, thus far in his early early career is a goon. Cooke is a dirty version of Steve Ott basically.

So no, it really doesn't pertain to what Mario was saying. Matt Cooke walks the line and crosses it sometimes, but what Mario is arguing is that an entire game shouldn't be all about cheap shots. So either you (not specifically you) cannot see that or your (not specifically you) pure unadulterated hate for everything Penguins and Crosby is getting in your way. I hate Crosby and the Penguins as the next person, but at least I can see it from mario's/an owners point of view.

There's a huge difference between a problem child and an employee who reflects poorly on your company. You can't fire a child.

Edited by Drake_Marcus, 14 February 2011 - 04:34 PM.

[WorkingOvertime]

Not at all. One player doesn't make a team. If they Wings had Cooke (ewwww) and he continually was doing dirty stuff, the Wings wouldn't be known as goons, just for having a goon. Mario didn't call out goons, he called out a team playing with the intent to take a pound of flesh from their opponents during that night.

If I had a problem child, there is no reason I shouldn't be able to call out a family of O'Doyles. It's hypocritical, but it doesn't invalidate my argument. Smokers are right when they say smoking is bad, alcoholics are right when they say alcoholism is wrong.

Mario was right, and Matt Cooke is completely irrelevant. Cooke has never tried to Bertuzzi anyone and never began to pummel a guy he just blindsided that was clearly hurt. All of Cooke's cheapshots, you can find identical hits delivered by highly reputable players, but again, he's never suckerpunched or hit a down opponent who was obviously injured.

Plus, Cooke can continually pot at least 10 goals a season and put up 30 points. Gillies has 9 goals in his entire 12 year career. Matt Martin, thus far in his early early career is a goon. Cooke is a dirty version of Steve Ott basically.

So no, it really doesn't pertain to what Mario was saying. Matt Cooke walks the line and crosses it sometimes, but what Mario is arguing is that an entire game shouldn't be all about cheap shots. So either you (not specifically you) cannot see that or your (not specifically you) pure unadulterated hate for everything Penguins and Crosby is getting in your way. I hate Crosby and the Penguins as the next person, but at least I can see it from mario's/an owners point of view.

Which do you think is more likely to cause an long-term injury, sucker punching someone or hitting them in the head? IMO a blind-side shot with a shoulder traveling at 15+ mph is more dangerous than a single punch. I would argue the same for knees and hits from behind. What happened to Moore was a tragedy, but in my years of playing and watching hockey I've seen many more dirty hits cause injury than sucker punches. As I said before, I would have preferred the player take an instigator and fight someone than a sucker punch though. However, I would have had the Isles start fights the way they did than make dirty plays. To me Godard's hit was as bad as Gillie's hit, and I believe (read somewhere?) that each hit caused a concussion.

[Hockeytown0001]

I'm confused. Dean Lombardi rips the officiating and gets fined. Mario Lemieux does the same and gets nothing.

Oh, I forgot who I was talking about and what team he controls. I get it now.

[Konnan511]

There's a huge difference between a problem child and an employee who reflects poorly on your company. You can't fire a child.

Then think of it as an employee who reflects poorly on your company but is extremely effective at what he does and improves your company by being there (which he does since he still puts up a good chunk of points).

Like I've said before, Cooke shouldn't be in the league, but the stuff he does is the exact same stuff OV, Mike Richards and Daniel Briere do, except when he does it it's under a microscope.

But again, Mario wasn't arguing that those players shouldn't be in the league, he's arguing a whole game shouldn't be that style of hockey because it's a clear intent of removing a pound of flesh from your opponent.

[cusimano_brothers]

From TSN:

Steve Yzerman wants to hear more from Mario Lemieux.

"I think Mario is one of the most well-respected, intelligent people in the game," the Tampa Bay Lightning GM said Monday on a conference call. "I would encourage him (and) I think we should all encourage him to get more involved with the league because he has a lot to offer."
...

They should all get more involved; unfortunately, as of right now, they choose not to.

[Carman]

"As soon as I get home," Konopka said, "I'm going to take the poster off my bedroom door of Mario."

http://www.nesn.com/2011/02/islanders-zonon-konopka-defends-teams-actions-after-mario-lemieuxs-criticism.html

I like Konopka.

[wingslogo19]

Which Isles guy was taughting the Pens guy, who looked like he was out of it on the ice?

[vladdy16]

I think that if Mario had just said this isn't the way this game should be played and we need to do something about it, everyone would be fine with that, Matt Cooke or no. Where he really crosses over into petulance is when he goes on to say "I'm not sure I want to be a part of this league." If that's how he feels, fine; say it in the board room, not to the media. What he said and the way he went about it smacks of a double standard on his part.
And the favoritism is horrifically blatant in not reprimanding him at the very least. No one else has ever gotten away with calling out the NHL in public.

[Konnan511]

Steve Yzerman agrees with me, I can officially die a happy man now!

[esteef]

Nice article from Scott Burnside on espn.com calling Mario out.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?columnist=burnside_scott&id=6120121

This was my favorite part of that article:

"You think the Islanders liked how this played out? Sources tell ESPN.com the Islanders were saying Sunday that they were the ones getting done over by the league and this was a conspiracy on the NHL's part to protect the Penguins."

I thought comments like these were reserved for Jealous-of-Crosby tin foil hat wearing fans of other teams?

esteef

[sleepwalker]

And the favoritism is horrifically blatant in not reprimanding him at the very least. No one else has ever gotten away with calling out the NHL in public.

Exactly.

This is just another example of the League pretty much outright saying that Pittburgh gets preferential treatment, and doesn't have to follow the same rules all the other teams have to. Pathetic.

[e_prime]

The idea that Martin's hit was anything like Bert's is ridiculous. Not EVEN close. Pulled Talbot down by dumping him on his ass as he was turtling. Four games appropriate.

Gilles hit was pretty nasty. Hit him up high then punching him as he is obviously stunned/hurt. Then continued to chirp him as he was laying on the ice.
Nine games is pretty heavy, but it makes the point.

Godard coming off the bench is an automatic suspension. Good to see the league hand this out. I understand the idea of protecting your goaltender, but Johnson is ready to go... The mugging by Johnson and Godard on Hillen... cripes, I'd love to have Hillen on my team.

[donfishmaster]

There's only 4 players on the Pens bench now. This game is getting out of hand lol.

Clearly the Pens are having their yambags handed to them tonight.

lol 9-3 with I think 4 players on each bench.

Okay now there are only 2 players on the bench for the Pens. OMG haha

It makes me happy to think of the Pengo fans sad!

[Dominator2005]

Mario, get rid of Cooke, Talbot, Adams and Orpik and then we can speak...
When he was playing against Kasparaitis, Kaspar was the dirtiest player, once he end up playing with him, he was one the best... same thing goes for Ulf Samuelsson...

Edited by Dominator2005, 14 February 2011 - 08:08 PM.

[haroldsnepsts]

Not at all. One player doesn't make a team. If they Wings had Cooke (ewwww) and he continually was doing dirty stuff, the Wings wouldn't be known as goons, just for having a goon. Mario didn't call out goons, he called out a team playing with the intent to take a pound of flesh from their opponents during that night.

If I had a problem child, there is no reason I shouldn't be able to call out a family of O'Doyles. It's hypocritical, but it doesn't invalidate my argument. Smokers are right when they say smoking is bad, alcoholics are right when they say alcoholism is wrong.


I do agree, though, his comments were melodramtic. But having Cooke isn't the same thing and it isn't hypocritical since Cooke can pot you 40 points a season if he really tried. he does the same stuff OV does and same stuff Briere does, and hell, even Mike Richards throws those exact same hits.

Mario was right, and Matt Cooke is completely irrelevant. Cooke has never tried to Bertuzzi anyone and never began to pummel a guy he just blindsided that was clearly hurt. All of Cooke's cheapshots, you can find identical hits delivered by highly reputable players, but again, he's never suckerpunched or hit a down opponent who was obviously injured.

Plus, Cooke can continually pot at least 10 goals a season and put up 30 points. Gillies has 9 goals in his entire 12 year career. Matt Martin, thus far in his early early career is a goon. Cooke is a dirty version of Steve Ott basically.

So no, it really doesn't pertain to what Mario was saying. Matt Cooke walks the line and crosses it sometimes, but what Mario is arguing is that an entire game shouldn't be all about cheap shots. So either you (not specifically you) cannot see that or your (not specifically you) pure unadulterated hate for everything Penguins and Crosby is getting in your way. I hate Crosby and the Penguins as the next person, but at least I can see it from mario's/an owners point of view.

His comments may have been about this specific type of game, but they were also about player safety and the integrity of the game so, yes, employing Cooke is absolutely relevant. And Cooke is much worse than any of those other current players you listed. He has a career full of incidents where he deliberately tries to injure players. We're not talking about a Bertuzzi moment, or a questionable hit or two. He's done it over and over and over.

It's not just that he plays for the Pens (though now more people are probably exposed to what a dirty player he is). He was a famous knee on knee artist in Vancouver.


And honestly, I don't hate the Pens, or Mario, or even Crosby (shocking on this forum, I know). But overall Mario comes off like a drama queen for threatening to leave the league. And when you re-sign Cooke, it's going to taint the message when you're lecturing the league on how they should protect players.

[Konnan511]

His comments may have been about this specific type of game, but they were also about player safety and the integrity of the game so, yes, employing Cooke is absolutely relevant. And Cooke is much worse than any of those other current players you listed. He has a career full of incidents where he deliberately tries to injure players. We're not talking about a Bertuzzi moment, or a questionable hit or two. He's done it over and over and over.

It's not just that he plays for the Pens (though now more people are probably exposed to what a dirty player he is). He was a famous knee on knee artist in Vancouver.


And honestly, I don't hate the Pens, or Mario, or even Crosby (shocking on this forum, I know). But overall Mario comes off like a drama queen for threatening to leave the league. And when you re-sign Cooke, it's going to taint the message when you're lecturing the league on how they should protect players.

Cooke is not worst than Gillies or Matt Martin. I hate Cooke, but he would NEVER try to Bertuzzi a player or rip the helmet off an injured and proceed to punch them in the head. Cooke can actually play good hockey. Everyone gets a hard on for hockey players that can score 30-40 points a season and fights. Cooke plays the exact same way as OV, Richards and Brier, except they score between 80-100 points a season instead of 40 points a season.

Plus, Cooke doesn't cheapen the integrity of the game, he's just one player. What the majority of the Islanders did that game cheapened the integrity of the game. After the Savard hit, the next game he fought the Bruins' tough guy. After all his cheap shots, he owns up to it and fights. What the Islanders did was for the pure purpose on injury and to send a message.