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Chara's hit on Pacioretty


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#241 CrimsonFlame

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 01:18 PM

The police have no business getting involved. By stepping out onto the ice, each player knows that they are risking their physical well being. If you don't want to risk being seriously hurt or even killed, don't play the game. There was nothing criminal about what happened. Dirty yes, but criminal no.

#242 Steve Sample

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 01:40 PM

The thought that the Police are involved is not right. However, if Air Canada uses it's weight to force the league into doing a better job of protecting its players I think thats great. Somebody has too. For those on here that think the Canadians fans are over reacting, if Chara or any player did that to a Wings player we would be all looking for heads to roll as well. The bottom line is the NHL has done a s*** job of protecting its players from needless injuries. If Air Canada calls them out, well its about time.

#243 chuklz

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 01:50 PM


History aside, it looked like intent to injure. Obviously if he was just going to rub him against the boards and Pacs hit the stantion, then I'd think other wise, but Chara made sure he actually threw Pacs into the stantion. Just look at the replay, you can clearly see him throw him into it. You don't need to be a dirty player to let your emotions get the best of you. look at Bertuzzi, he was never a dirty player and just that one incident will forever label him as a dirty player when we all know he isn't.

Hell, even LePuke wasn't a dirty player, but that one incident he lost his brain and smushed Draper. Players can have a relatively clean career and still do something dirty.


No offense but Bertuzzi was a dirty player. He's mended his ways and plays even lighter than he should, but he deserves the albatross around his neck.

#244 Din758

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 01:53 PM

I still didnt think it was that dirty. Weve all seen similar hits many times before, with most resulting in no injury. I dont think Chara's size is taken into consideration enough here, and you cant blame him for that. This to me was a hockey play, that fluked its way into a big time injury.

Hopefully Pacioretty is back soon.
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#245 Finnish Wing

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 02:19 PM

For those who say intention doesn't matter and the punishment should be judged only by the outcome, think about this: murder and kill (dunno if it's the correct legal term).

Two guys get into a fight on a balcony - yes, on a balcony - and the other accidentally falls because of the contact and dies. Elsewhere, a guy intentionally pushes other guy from the balcony to his death. Now, are these two cases identical in terms of the punishment because of the same outcome?

Maybe some of you think Chara did it intentionally, which I find veeery hard to believe. Still, there are some people where who say that it "doesn't matter if it's intentional or not". Now, that I find absurd.
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#246 Electrophile

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 02:46 PM

For those who say intention doesn't matter and the punishment should be judged only by the outcome, think about this: murder and kill (dunno if it's the correct legal term).

Two guys get into a fight on a balcony - yes, on a balcony - and the other accidentally falls because of the contact and dies. Elsewhere, a guy intentionally pushes other guy from the balcony to his death. Now, are these two cases identical in terms of the punishment because of the same outcome?

Maybe some of you think Chara did it intentionally, which I find veeery hard to believe. Still, there are some people where who say that it "doesn't matter if it's intentional or not". Now, that I find absurd.



IANAL, but murder requires malice aforethought, and the first scenario you described would be manslaughter. The second WOULD be murder, because of the word "intentionally." That would imply malice aforethought. To answer your question, the two cases are not identical. If you get into a fight with someone, and as a result of that fight they die, you could be charged with voluntary manslaughter in that your actions led to their death, but you didn't intend for that to happen. There was no premeditation to kill that person.

To bring it back to this topic, it absolutely matters if something is intentional or not.

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#247 esteef

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 02:49 PM

I don't find it hard to believe at all that a player would take advantage on a hit against another player who has been a royal pain in the ass the last few times they've played. This notion that Chara didn't know about the stantion or who was even on the ice at the time is laughable.

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#248 Grim

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 03:08 PM

well, whatever the issue, it wouldn't hurt to remove or re-engineer those dangerous stantions

#249 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 03:29 PM

From TSN:

...
"Our hockey operations people are extraordinarily comfortable with the decision that they made," Bettman said. "It was a horrific injury, we're sorry that it happened in our fast-paced physical game, but I don't think whether or not supplemental discipline was imposed would change what happened and in fact the people in the game who I have heard from almost to a person ... believe that it was handled appropriately by hockey operations."
...


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#250 RedFX

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 03:45 PM

I don't know if anyone saw this, but literally THE EXACT SAME PLAY happened in the Buffalo-Pittsburgh game earlier that night. Can't remember the 2 players involved, but the Sabres player was trying to beat the Penguins players along the boards. The Penguins guy got beat, came in late from the side, and slammed the Sabres guy into the turnbuckle. To be honest, that play looked like it was done with more malicious intent than this one. And yet, nobody is talking about that play being a dirty hit...nobody is demanding a suspension from the Penguins player...and no sponsor is threatening to boycott the game based on that play.

As harsh as it may sound, the only two reasons were discussing this right now is 1.Pacioretty got hurt, and 2. it's two players and teams with a recent history. Obviously, it's unfortunate what happened to Patch, and my thoughts and prayers are with him and a speedy recovery. But to be honest, there was nothing dirty about that hit. It was a play you see all the time, just with a tragic end result. That should be the end of it
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#251 Wingzman91

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 03:47 PM

How many people have been hurt by the puck this year, do we change that to a nerf ball?
We can remove all the glass so no one can get hurt on it, the boards too, hell. the arena, its dangerous for players to have to drive there in traffic.
This was a fluke, these guys know that they can get hurt out there, ask Boyce and Modano.
That said, if this wasn't a Hab that got hurt, there would be no police involved.

#252 Finnish Wing

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 03:52 PM

From TSN:

"but I don't think whether or not supplemental discipline was imposed would change what happened"

Weird for Bettman to say something like that. Isn't that the case with all the suspensions? No suspension is going to change something that has already happened. I thought they are meant to prevent something from happening again.
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#253 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 04:16 PM

Well, now that the police are involved, this story made headlines again. Another shining moment for hockey. Thanks Montreal. You elevated an unfortunate borderline hit to the Bertuzzi incident, and once again hockey looks like a bunch of barbarians skating around braining one another without punishment.

#254 wingslogo19

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 05:20 PM

My God, Canada is making this out to be an international incident. It was just a hit on a bad spot on the ice with a horrible outcome.

Hey what's wrong with Canada :sly:
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#255 HankthaTank

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 05:41 PM

Sooo this gets 3 games and I am guessing it's the "intent" right? That lovely word we have heard the past few days and even the past few seasons. But how after Bolland spins around, stays on his feet and continues to play does this warrant 3 and the Chara hit none???? Please do not tell me intent....


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#256 wingslogo19

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 05:48 PM

Sooo this gets 3 games and I am guessing it's the "intent" right? That lovely word we have heard the past few days and even the past few seasons. But how after Bolland spins around, stays on his feet and continues to play does this warrant 3 and the Chara hit none???? Please do not tell me intent....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGLoXMmwzBU

It's intent :hehe:
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#257 vladdy16

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 05:57 PM


Can't wait to read the "Phoenix: I still think it's a hockey market" chapter of Gary Bettman's autobiography. I'm guessing it's going to be chapter 11.

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#258 Finnish Wing

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 06:25 PM

It's intent :hehe:

There is rules for blindside hits, headshots, hits from behind etc. so they don't even have to be intented. Players know the rules. In the Chara-case only rule that was broken was the interference and there was no intention to anything else.

I don't see how the method of punishing should be any different in hockey than it is for real life. In real life intent means a lot. Why should it mean nothing in hockey then?

Or better yet, let's try a year in real life without intent meaning anything. Wouldn't it be fun if every accident would get the same punishment than a planned murder? Yayyy!
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#259 VM1138

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 07:35 PM

I don't know about the police getting invovled, or even if it was a dirty hit. It was a routine play.

However, I never played hockey for a team, so I'm not sure if it's possible, but it certainly looked like Chara just tried to pinch him and shove him. It's totally reasonable to assume he wasn't thinking about the stanchion.

Regardless, I doubt the cops find anything criminal in this, dirty or not. Nothing would stand up in court because of that question of intent.

At any rate it's not an OBVIOUS intent to injure.
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#260 hckypete96

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 08:41 PM

gettin the cops involved is a joke right?? ffs this is HOCKEY. head shots have always been a part of the game... i didnt hear ppl cryin then lindros career was ended shortly because of them. its up to the players to police themselves..... and if they wanna go for each others heads then clearly thats what theyre gonna do. to involve the police is completely ridic tho wasnt even taht cheapt of a play. I think the refs got this one right.
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