No offensive creativity

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

There's topics all over the place calling out each player individually and soft goals against, but the biggest problem noticed and talked about during game threads is the shots from the outside and lack of creativity. the worst yet being the game against Edmonton on 11 March. Is anyone else here sick of seeing ALL of the Wings shots from the outside?

We can talk about Franzens 1 goal in the last 17 games, Flips 2 points in 13, Z not getting s*** in 6, howard letting in atleast 1 softie per game and bert being streaky, but the fact is, you can outshoot teams 35-20 and lose when your shots are easy outside shots or predictable one timers from the blue line that get blocked 8 out of 10 times and your opponent gets their 20 shots from being patient and getting shots from the middle of the ice.

The last 4 Wings I've watched have had the same trend. toss crappy low percentage shots bread basket with little or no screen followed by no rebound. the best games the wings play are when they get creative. when they don't skate in a straight line and "hope for the best" . curl in for a pass behind the defence.

from being in game day threads i know LOTS of you guys have had the same frustrations watching games.

[dirtydangles 1,328]

yep, our goals against the blues were all from driving the net and getting into the slots. before this we were throwing wristers from the perimeter for a while, even against edmonton.

[CAredwingsfan91 28]

I think the wings shouldn't get TOO creative with their offense and just SHOOT THE DAMN PUCK. Sometimes i feel that none of our top players want to shoot the puck they always want to make that extra pass i mean look at helm and miller they always just shoot the puck from whatever angles they can. Datsyuk Z, Mule, Fip, Hudler, ALL JUST NEED TO SHOOT THE PUCK. Look at what Bertuzzi was getting done for those back to back games he was just shooting it. it's not so much creativity thats killing us it's more of none of our top players want to be selfish IMO.

[evilzyme 769]

There's topics all over the place calling out each player individually and soft goals against, but the biggest problem noticed and talked about during game threads is the shots from the outside and lack of creativity. the worst yet being the game against Edmonton on 11 March. Is anyone else here sick of seeing ALL of the Wings shots from the outside?

We can talk about Franzens 1 goal in the last 17 games, Flips 2 points in 13, Z not getting s*** in 6, howard letting in atleast 1 softie per game and bert being streaky, but the fact is, you can outshoot teams 35-20 and lose when your shots are easy outside shots or predictable one timers from the blue line that get blocked 8 out of 10 times and your opponent gets their 20 shots from being patient and getting shots from the middle of the ice.

The last 4 Wings I've watched have had the same trend. toss crappy low percentage shots bread basket with little or no screen followed by no rebound. the best games the wings play are when they get creative. when they don't skate in a straight line and "hope for the best" . curl in for a pass behind the defence.

from being in game day threads i know LOTS of you guys have had the same frustrations watching games.

I'll reply to the whole thing right after this but firstly... we were shooting from the outside against the Oilers because of one reason, Dubnyk is huge. We were trying to force rebounds and get secondary shots from the backdoor. When playing against a huge goalie you need to force any shot you can onto the goalie and hope for those juicy rebounds. Especially when the team isn't giving up any space in the offensive zone. Same style they play when we go against Jonathan Quick, rebounds rebounds rebounds. Not saying either goalie is known for giving their rebounds but that's practically all you can do when playing against a huge body in net that doesn't give you any real shots.

[Echolalia 2,961]

There hasn't been a killer instinct with this team for a while, now.

[wings1110 184]

no balls has been their problem, always.

[hooon 1,089]

OP, I think a lot of the lack of offensive creativity can be attributed to the lack of chemistry between the lines the past few games. With the lines changing every single game (sometimes changing DURING the game), the chemistry just isn't there like it was a few weeks ago with the HDC line.

I'm not sure if its their 'biggest' problem right now, but some of those magical plays that we are accustomed to just don't seem to be happening.

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

The "dump and don't chase" hockey style never works.

I know I'll get ragged for this, but this is why we needed to sign some more grinders for our 3rd and 4th lines in the offseason. To have more players who are willing to do the dirty work, instead of a lineup full of lazy floaters who are often scared to go into the scoring areas. We're just too one-dimensional and easy to play against.

I mean our 3rd line last game consisted of Hudler, Filppula and Modano. That's not a checking line or a grinding line. It's a fluffy pillow line. I just don't think we have enough sandpaper on the team to go through a tough, grinding playoff run.

So basically, I think we have lots of creativity talent wise, but sometimes we try to get too cute, instead of being more aggressive and going to the net. It's not about creativity, but will and effort.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

The "dump and don't chase" hockey style never works.

I know I'll get ragged for this, but this is why we needed to sign some more grinders for our 3rd and 4th lines in the offseason. To have more players who are willing to do the dirty work, instead of a lineup full of lazy floaters who are often scared to go into the scoring areas. We're just too one-dimensional and easy to play against.

I mean our 3rd line last game consisted of Hudler, Filppula and Modano. That's not a checking line or a grinding line. It's a fluffy pillow line. I just don't think we have enough sandpaper on the team to go through a tough, grinding playoff run.

So basically, I think we have lots of creativity talent wise, but sometimes we try to get too cute, instead of being more aggressive and going to the net. It's not about creativity, but will and effort.

Agreed. The talent is definitely there. It's almost as if we expect to score 3+ goals night in and night out without any effort at all. Sometimes it is as simple as chipping the puck in deep, wearing down the opposition's defensemen on the forecheck, and crashing the net. Abdelkader needs to step up and play the way we brought him up to. Stir it up, and go to the areas not many others on the team are willing to go. Back to basics.

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

I'll reply to the whole thing right after this but firstly... we were shooting from the outside against the Oilers because of one reason, Dubnyk is huge. We were trying to force rebounds and get secondary shots from the backdoor. When playing against a huge goalie you need to force any shot you can onto the goalie and hope for those juicy rebounds. Especially when the team isn't giving up any space in the offensive zone. Same style they play when we go against Jonathan Quick, rebounds rebounds rebounds. Not saying either goalie is known for giving their rebounds but that's practically all you can do when playing against a huge body in net that doesn't give you any real shots.

i see your point on that, but with a goalie dubnyks size, if they just throw pucks from the outside they'll get lost in his massive equipment. they need to get the big goalies moving laterally. get lots of cross ice one-timers and make him move side to side. i find watching them lately they wait for the goalie to square up and their shots either go bread basket or they miss the net by 2-3 feet.

i agree with whoever said the wings need more sandpaper. i really hope callahan tries out for the team and is given a good look next year. in a perfect world, holland would be able to trade franzen for lucic and kronwall would hit the net. as much as i like the way miller plays most of the time, he doesn't have the intensity. not even abdelkader does anymore. unfortunately we can't clone helm... i'm not against the wings taking tons of shots, but when they do the same thing everytime they enter the zone, it gets predictable and easy to defend against.

[Mabuhay Red Wings 177]

There hasn't been a killer instinct with this team for a while, now.

"I'm telling you. We're getting sloppy. Our thinking, our ******* attitude, you know? We're not ******* hungry anymore."

[Buppy 1,720]

Agreed. The talent is definitely there. It's almost as if we expect to score 3+ goals night in and night out without any effort at all. Sometimes it is as simple as chipping the puck in deep, wearing down the opposition's defensemen on the forecheck, and crashing the net. Abdelkader needs to step up and play the way we brought him up to. Stir it up, and go to the areas not many others on the team are willing to go. Back to basics.

This argument would carry a lot more weight if we weren't the top scoring team in the league, still 3rd best record overall despite 3 1/2 months mostly lacking in effort. I mean it's hard to criticize guys for 'expecting 3+ goals a night without any effort' when that is what they are getting.

'Dump and don't chase' never works, but unfortunately 'turn on the skill for 10% of the game and coast the rest' works far too well for our own good. Maybe we'd be a better team if we lost more, ironically enough.

I don't think lack of creativity or lack of grit is the problem, though more of either would help. Mostly the guys aren't moving well off the puck. You can't be creative when everyone is standing around watching instead of trying to get open. You can't win battles if guys aren't moving in to good support positions. That stuff just isn't happening enough right now. Too much 'let Pav and Helmer (or whoever is hot at the time) do it' mentality. For good or bad, it's worked pretty well so far. It won't work in the playoffs of course, but we just have to hope they turn the switch by then.

[thedisappearer 291]

We're just too one-dimensional and easy to play against.

We are 1 point away from being tied for second IN THE LEAGUE. WTF are you talking about? Hitting a cold streak doesn't mean we suck and we need to change the style of hockey we play.

I'd like to point out that last year, about this time, you were the person saying we might not make the playoffs, let alone think about finishing 5th. True story.

[wingslogo19 281]

Getting to the dirty areas of the net would be great

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

We are 1 point away from being tied for second IN THE LEAGUE. WTF are you talking about? Hitting a cold streak doesn't mean we suck and we need to change the style of hockey we play.

I'd like to point out that last year, about this time, you were the person saying we might not make the playoffs, let alone think about finishing 5th. True story.

I wasn't far off. We barely did s*** in the playoffs last year, so get off your high horse Alphonse. I don't regret anything I said.

I'm thinking long term for this season and I don't like our chances. We haven't played well against the top teams in the West lately. Hell, we haven't played well against any of the playoff teams in the West lately. And we do have too many lazy floaters on the team, which most people here seem to agree with the last few weeks.

We have a lot of points on talent alone and on playing well early in the season. That didn't exactly help us in 2004 or 2006, when we also had the best record in the league and loads of talent. Doesn't work that way in the playoffs where you have to outwork a team over a 7 game series. Can't just win on talent alone in the playoffs.

Edited March 15, 2011 by GMRwings1983

[dobbles 252]

The "dump and don't chase" hockey style never works.

I know I'll get ragged for this, but this is why we needed to sign some more grinders for our 3rd and 4th lines in the offseason. To have more players who are willing to do the dirty work, instead of a lineup full of lazy floaters who are often scared to go into the scoring areas. We're just too one-dimensional and easy to play against.

we could have the best bottom 6 in the league and we would still have the same problem. its our top 6 that needs to pick up their game. aside from the hudler/datsyuk/cleary line, there has been no real good combo of top 6 lines that have worked. bertuzzi has went into his yearly slump, franzen has been almost invisible since the 5 goal game, filppula has been cold with no good wingers to play with, holmstrom has been pretty ineffective at even strength all year, etc. even zetterberg has went 6 games with no points.

yet with all that, the team is still first in the league in scoring. they have had great offense from the back end, and decent production from the bottom 6. helm with 30 points is huge. eaves with 13 goals. even draper with 11 points in 38 games is good production for a limited role. offensively, these guys are earning their spots.

the wings need to figure out how to set their lines, specifically their top 6. that is the key going into the playoffs.

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

we could have the best bottom 6 in the league and we would still have the same problem. its our top 6 that needs to pick up their game. aside from the hudler/datsyuk/cleary line, there has been no real good combo of top 6 lines that have worked. bertuzzi has went into his yearly slump, franzen has been almost invisible since the 5 goal game, filppula has been cold with no good wingers to play with, holmstrom has been pretty ineffective at even strength all year, etc. even zetterberg has went 6 games with no points.

yet with all that, the team is still first in the league in scoring. they have had great offense from the back end, and decent production from the bottom 6. helm with 30 points is huge. eaves with 13 goals. even draper with 11 points in 38 games is good production for a limited role. offensively, these guys are earning their spots.

the wings need to figure out how to set their lines, specifically their top 6. that is the key going into the playoffs.

As for the top 6, they're not creative enough to change up their style when other teams don't allow them easy entry into the zone.

What are they going to do if these guys go on another slump come playoff time. Just keep at it like a stubborn bull? That's what they've done so far this year. Got to change it up sometime and go into the scoring areas a little more.

Like I said, winning on talent alone doesn't work in the playoffs. I haven't seen this team consistently outwork someone all year to expect them to outwork a team like Vancouver or Philly (if we make it that far), who are very hungry teams yet to win a Cup.

Edited March 15, 2011 by GMRwings1983

[thedisappearer 291]

I wasn't far off. We barely did s*** in the playoffs last year, so get off your high horse Alphonse. I don't regret anything I said.

I'm thinking long term for this season and I don't like our chances. We haven't played well against the top teams in the West lately. Hell, we haven't played well against any of the playoff teams in the West lately. And we do have too many lazy floaters on the team, which most people here seem to agree with the last few weeks.

We have a lot of points on talent alone and on playing well early in the season. That didn't exactly help us in 2004 or 2006, when we also had the best record in the league and loads of talent. Doesn't work that way in the playoffs where you have to outwork a team over a 7 game series. Can't just win on talent alone in the playoffs.

We beat a team seeded higher than us, so yes, we did s***. Then we lost to a 2 seed. That's what 5 seeds are supposed to do. Oh, and as for winning a 7 game series… we did that last year.

You are mindfly with a Napoleon Complex.

What are they going to do if these guys go on another slump come playoff time. Just keep at it like a stubborn bull? That's what they've done so far this year.

Again, 1 point away from being tied for SECOND IN THE LEAGUE. Yes, please keep at it like a stubborn bull.

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

We beat a team seeded higher than us, so yes, we did s***. Then we lost to a 2 seed. That's what 5 seeds are supposed to do. Oh, and as for winning a 7 game series… we did that last year.

You are mindfly with a Napoleon Complex.

Again, 1 point away from being tied for SECOND IN THE LEAGUE. Yes, please keep at it like a stubborn bull.

Apparently, you don't agree with me that the regular season and playoffs are a different animal, and that we're winning on talent alone, which doesn't always work come playoff time.

Oh well. I tried.

As for your other post, I don't know exactly what to say. I guess my definition for playoff success is more strict than yours.

Edited March 15, 2011 by GMRwings1983

[Finnish Wing 110]

"I'm telling you. We're getting sloppy. Our thinking, our ******* attitude, you know? We're not ******* hungry anymore."

That's right. Need to bury those ******* cockroaches!

[thedisappearer 291]

Apparently, you don't agree with me that the regular season and playoffs are a different animal, and that we're winning on talent alone, which doesn't always work come playoff time.

Oh well. I tried.

Oh, I agree they are different animals. However, I realize we are the most successful team, regular season *and* playoffs, over the last 20 years. Yes, the salary cap widens the teams we compete against, but only haters and nihilists pretend we are not the most successful. Also, winning on "talent alone" is sort of the point… you know… have better players.

As for your other post, I don't know exactly what to say. I guess my definition for playoff success is more strict than yours.

As we are the most successful playoff team of the last two decades, sure. I am aware we won't always win. But I have gotten enough results from this franchise, this owner, this GM, this coach, and this roster, that I am willing to assume we'll figure it out and do well.

But keep hating, French mindfly.

[Broken 16 381]

I like when fans predict playoff failure like they are being all prophetic. It's the playoffs. It's hard. Great teams fail.

Predicting playoff failure is definitely the way to go if you wanna play the 'I told you so' card someday.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

We have a lot of points on talent alone and on playing well early in the season. That didn't exactly help us in 2004 or 2006, when we also had the best record in the league and loads of talent. Doesn't work that way in the playoffs where you have to outwork a team over a 7 game series. Can't just win on talent alone in the playoffs.

Maybe nitpicking, but I think you're guilty here of attributing some pet theory to a playoff loss. There are too many factors that go into losing any one hockey game, let alone series, to be accounted for by just saying they were "lazy." In fact I would say that's a lazy attempt at an explanation.

It's just too easy when they lose a series to say "See! They weren't X enough!" But actually it was probably a combination of Y and Z (and ABCD while we're at it).

Anyways, if we're talking about offense, know this: not only are the Wings currently the league's 2nd most potent offense, but in each of the last three playoff years they've had the highest goals per game.

[Mabuhay Red Wings 177]

Maybe nitpicking, but I think you're guilty here of attributing some pet theory to a playoff loss. There are too many factors that go into losing any one hockey game, let alone series, to be accounted for by just saying they were "lazy." In fact I would say that's a lazy attempt at an explanation.

It's just too easy when they lose a series to say "See! They weren't X enough!" But actually it was probably a combination of Y and Z (and ABCD while we're at it).

Anyways, if we're talking about offense, know this: not only are the Wings currently the league's 2nd most potent offense, but in each of the last three playoff years they've had the highest goals per game.

Combination of Yzerman and Zetterberg?

And actually, if we're talking about goals for, then the Wings have the third most potent offense in the league. 2nd is "The Core".

[thedisappearer 291]

And actually, if we're talking about goals for, then the Wings have the third most potent offense in the league. 2nd is "The Core".

On a per game basis, as of right now, The Core would be first, we'd be second, and the Nucks third, right?