40 replies to this topic

[FunkedUp]

I thought that we could keep this thread going for the remainder of the season. Nick has been a minus player this year, and he has never ended the season in the negative. His worst statistical plus/minus season was in 1992 where he finished +7. With the way things are going, it is almost guaranteed that Nick sets a new record. Currently Nick is a very un-Lidstrom-like minus 2...

Will he finish the season as a minus player?

Can he win the Norris as a minus player?

[brett]

even though the stat is pretty much worthless, ill be pretty mad if he finishes with a minus. hes too good for that. hes just had bad luck with defensive partners and howard.

[stormboy]

as much as some people argue that plus-minus is a worthless stat (and i don't totally disagree with them), the fact is that it's still kept and i would be very surprised if nick won the norris with a minus rating. i have no idea if any defenseman has ever won the award with a minus rating, but IMO they'll look for any reason to give it to someone other than nick.

and, yeah, from what i've seen (don't get to watch a lot of games) nick has played very well this season. obviously, neither nick nor anyone else can do anything about a softie let in by the goalie, and there have been plenty of those this season.

also, though he already has nine more points this year than he did last year, he had (at the end of last year) eight more even-strength (or short-handed) points than he has this year (37ppp this year versus 20ppp all of last year), so that may (or may not) have anything to do with it. (i.e. playing great on PP this year, but not as well 5-on-5?)

[GMRwings1983]

The line combos have all been a failure. Playing with Rafalski seems to be what he's most comfortable with.

I blame Howard for the plus/minus trouble. It is a team thing, but he's more at fault than anyone.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros]

The line combos have all been a failure. Playing with Rafalski seems to be what he's most comfortable with.

I blame Howard for the plus/minus trouble. It is a team thing, but he's more at fault than anyone.

I'm not very optimistic our goaltending can take us far.

[mjtm77]

as much as some people argue that plus-minus is a worthless stat (and i don't totally disagree with them), the fact is that it's still kept and i would be very surprised if nick won the norris with a minus rating. i have no idea if any defenseman has ever won the award with a minus rating, but IMO they'll look for any reason to give it to someone other than nick.

and, yeah, from what i've seen (don't get to watch a lot of games) nick has played very well this season. obviously, neither nick nor anyone else can do anything about a softie let in by the goalie, and there have been plenty of those this season.

also, though he already has nine more points this year than he did last year, he had (at the end of last year) eight more even-strength (or short-handed) points than he has this year (37ppp this year versus 20ppp all of last year), so that may (or may not) have anything to do with it. (i.e. playing great on PP this year, but not as well 5-on-5?)

Edited by mjtm77, 26 March 2011 - 01:40 AM.

[Shoreline]

Honestly it's evident this season Lids has lost a step, none more noticeable than 5-on-5. Still the best defender in the league, but the defense, his lost step, and goaltending.. it has not been the most stellar season by normal standards. Thankful this team is in the position it's in. I would be in the group of those kinda disappointed if he isn't on the positive side of +/-, even though I know I shouldn't be so pre-occupied with it.

Edited by Shoreline, 26 March 2011 - 02:21 AM.

[Nev]

What Shoreline said. It makes me laugh how suddenly when Nick is a minus that the +/- stat becomes worthless, when the previous 20 years its been used to trumpet Lidstrom's greatness.

Team defence and shoddy goaltending have all factored into the large numbers of goals against, but I defy any to say this hasn't been Lidstrom's worst season defensively. Its like he's made more mistakes this season than the previous 19 put together.

[Mabuhay Red Wings]

Honestly it's evident this season Lids has lost a step, none more noticeable than 5-on-5. Still the best defender in the league, but the defense, his lost step, and goaltending.. it has not been the most stellar season by normal standards. Thankful this team is in the position it's in. I would be in the group of those kinda disappointed if he isn't on the positive side of +/-, even though I know I shouldn't be so pre-occupied with it.

Tracking Nick's plus minus this year has made me very .

[haroldsnepsts]

What Shoreline said. It makes me laugh how suddenly when Nick is a minus that the +/- stat becomes worthless, when the previous 20 years its been used to trumpet Lidstrom's greatness.

Team defence and shoddy goaltending have all factored into the large numbers of goals against, but I defy any to say this hasn't been Lidstrom's worst season defensively. Its like he's made more mistakes this season than the previous 19 put together.

Honestly I think last season was worse for him defensively than this one. He played more like himself in the second half of last season, but it was still a non-Nick like year to me.

This season I think he's been better overall, though the Wings in general look more lost on defense. I'm a little surprised Babcock hasn't gone back to the old pairings to settle things down.

[P. Marlowe]

Lidström was +1 against the Leafs, so he's -1 now.

[MGreenberg]

They need to keep him and Raffi together, Nick is the defensive anchor but Rafalski and Nick on the blue line together brings some solid offense.

[kook_10]

Z has 75 pts and is still also a -1. To me that is a little more concerning, especially given the years remaining on his big contract and that +/- is a more useful stat for forwards (relatively speaking). He has also never finished a -.


*curiously enough - looking at Z's splits - it looks like someone has a case of the Mondays:

Stats By Day of Week

Sun
GP: 7
+/-: +2

Mon
GP: 8
+/-: -13

Tues
GP: 5
+/-: +0

Weds
GP: 14
+/-: +6

Thurs
GP: 10
+/-: -1

Fri
GP: 14
+/-: +5

Sat
GP: 17
+/-: +0

Edited by kook_10, 27 March 2011 - 11:47 AM.

[FunkedUp]

All even now. He's been floating between -2 and +2 for a long while...

[stormboy]

i've always been proud of lids's +/- numbers, and maybe critics will say that i've been wrong all along -- maybe i have been, or maybe now i'm just re-thinking things a bit. but if +/- is a good judge of a player's offensive/defensive balance, how the f*** is dats a +12 while zetterberg is a -1; abdelkader is a team-leading +13 while the great nick lidstrom is barely scraping an even rating.

obviously, it depends on the lines you're playing against and the goaltending you get, but jesus.

abby has to be happy, though.

[Phazon]

i have no idea if any defenseman has ever won the award with a minus rating, but IMO they'll look for any reason to give it to someone other than nick.

rob blake snubbed lidstrom on a norris back in 1998 when blake was minus 3. So yeah you can win a norris while being a minus player.

Edited by Phazon, 29 March 2011 - 10:38 AM.

[Cruiser008]

IMO Lids has been his usual self on the PP and PK but it's clear that his 5 on 5 play has slipped a bit. That said given that no one has really stood out I think that as long as I has a positive +/- at the end of the season he should be favoured for another Norris.

[South Dakota wings fan]

If he finishes a minus player, I don't believe he will win the Norris. Probably shouldn't. If he does, I think it would be more of a "lifetime achievement award". He probably should have won at least once when he got second, so that would wash itself out. I wouldn't be surprised if Keith Yandle won, although I read somewhere he doesn't kill penalties, which I think you should have to do as a D-man who wins the Norris. I could easily see Kris Letang winning the award this year too.

I wonder if he finishes minus, if it would make him think real hard about retiring?

[HankthaTank]

He shouldn't lose the Norris fellas if this is what we are worried about here. It's clear the defense hasn't been as good this year. E-brake on the nerves, all will be ok, and he shall get his 7th.

[Doc Holliday]

What Shoreline said. It makes me laugh how suddenly when Nick is a minus that the +/- stat becomes worthless, when the previous 20 years its been used to trumpet Lidstrom's greatness.

Team defence and shoddy goaltending have all factored into the large numbers of goals against, but I defy any to say this hasn't been Lidstrom's worst season defensively. Its like he's made more mistakes this season than the previous 19 put together.

Did anyone use +/- by itself to prop up Lidstrom?

It was more of a pretty cool stat more than anything, considering the guy has been a beast on that end for the better part of his career.