3/30 GDT: St. Louis Rams 10 at Detroit Lions 3

[The Secret 304]

Of course this is the game I picked to go to this season. Wow what a disappointment. Worst loss at home since 1988!!

WORST SINCE: This is the worst loss at home since the Flyers won, 11-6, on Feb. 23, 1988. It's also the most goals the Red Wings have allowed since that game.

At least back in the day when we were getting beaten like this we still got to see Yzerman score a couple beauties and watch Probie throwing his weight and beat someone's ass

[Frozen-Man 144]

Ways this game could have been worse:

• We could have been shut out 10-zip
  
• Someone could have been injured
  
• We could have lost this badly to a team we detest or would affect the standings
  

I can only hope this serves as the wake-up call some are claiming it was.

I gotta agree, and ultimately a loss is a loss points wise. As much as this game hurt to watch I would rather a 10-3 loss that might wake the players up than a 3-2 loss where the team might go along like everything is fine and chalk it up to Dats being gone and having a 3rd string goalie in. At least this has the potential to shake them up.

[BuckeyeWingsfan80 209]

This team used to prevent other teams from getting good shots on net.

They would stay in good position, force other teams to play along the boards and when they got down low everyone had a man and stuck to him.

This team sucks in its positioning. It doesn't prevent shots. Teams can get whatever they want against them and always seem to be able to get the puck down low at will.

I don't think it's a system issue at all - it's a player will and want issue. That's not to excuse Babcock's motivational issues (if any), but it does appear that this team is tuning him out a bit to me. But the players have to know they need to sacrifice to win games, especially in the playoffs.

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

Ways this game could have been worse:

• We could have been shut out 10-zip
  
• Someone could have been injured
  
• We could have lost this badly to a team we detest or would affect the standings
  

I can only hope this serves as the wake-up call some are claiming it was.

first off...lol at the Rams/Lions change to the topic.

i agree with this too. it's not like the Wings got pumped by the Pens or Ducks...who hates St. Louis?? they're just kind of there...atleast since Pronger left, i've been ok with them. hopefully this loss does act as a wake up call. the wings have the most goals against now of ANY team currently in the playoffs. right now, they're slotted in to play Nashville. if SJ takes over the 2 spot, they will be up against the ducks. with the wings D playing like s***, Perry, Getzlaf and Selanne will have a field day with them. hopefully giving up 10 in a game will light the much needed spark under the Wings ass.

I'll still believe the Wings can go all the way up until the buzzer rings on their season and they've lost 4 to 1 team. and i hope dats sits until playoffs start and Z sits the last 2 games. who gives a f*** what place they finish, go in fresh. they've been better on the road anyways.

[Konnan511 1,736]

Ugly loss. Hopefully this is the wake up game this team needed.

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

Yeah, but what about those three goals!

[sleepwalker 512]

I don't think I have ever seen anything as telling about the Wings as I did in the 3rd when the camera focused on Lidstrom sitting on the end of the bench, he just looked completely pissed off and frustrated with how the team was playing..

Yeah, that was an interesting moment. When they showed him sitting there looking like he literally wanted to kill someone, I was about to say something to my girl, and before I could even get the words out, she turned to me and said "Damn...I've never seen Lidstrom look so pissed off before" She is not even a big hockey fan, just watches a lot of games with me, and even she noticed that.

[Din758 371]

didnt even notice the thread title until now. holy s*** i was just laughing my ass off.

[Johnny Law 15]

I see two things

First their positioning in terms of general defense is terrible, I'm not sure what this is about outside of Ericcson who just can't seem to figure it out and Kindl who is young. The rest know what to do and simply aren't doing it.

Second and far more important is basic motivation. Simply put wining has become a way of life and they are no longer motivated by winning alone. Historically they have always taken some time off in the regular season however this year it seems to be the norm rather than the exception. This lack of motivation effects everything, they don't hit, the don't clear the net of people and pucks, there 1/4 second slow on everything, s***ty passes and lots of turnovers in the all important transition game. If a team is consistently loosing the battle for loose pucks that's a motivation work thing and that's what I think we are dealing with.

This is really tough for Babs, yelling isn't going to work, hell I'm not sure winning is going to work the players have to find something to play for, maybe that's the playoffs maybe its not but were going to find out real soon.

[wingsgirl001 983]

LOL at the topic change.

I have nothing to add that hasnt already been said, I just wanted to comment on the thread title.

[wingslogo19 281]

Of course this is the game I picked to go to this season. Wow what a disappointment. Worst loss at home since 1988!!

WORST SINCE: This is the worst loss at home since the Flyers won, 11-6, on Feb. 23, 1988. It's also the most goals the Red Wings have allowed since that game.

I feel sorry for you that you were there

[Firehawk 305]

Are you watching the same Red Wings team as I am?

I never ***** about the goalies, because goalies have good games and bad games like everybody else.

HOWEVER...

The Wings aren't just having bad games, they are in a progressive slouch towards the playoffs. As the season progresses, every aspect of their game looks worse. As Babs pointed out, he doesn't really mind if they lose so long as they play well.

...they are NOT playing well, and that poor level of play is only getting worse.

I'll say the goalies are the exception. Mac does well, but I'm sure facing a zillion shots every night gets old for a new goalie.

We are losing our creativity on offense and the PP as the season wears on. You must not be watching games if you can't see that.

Our defense is...good god...what can a person say? If you don't think our D is in a free-fall and getting worse, then you are watching another team's channel.

I've been a Wings fan forever, and I'm sure I'm older than most of the people on this board. If we were a bad team playing hard but getting thumped, such is life. Consequently:

-We're either a bad team that over-achieved the first half of the season and is massively overpaid, ala the rangers. or

-We're a good team that is losing the capacity to play well.

I believe we're in the second situation, which is wayyyyyyyyy more scary. Bad teams can be up-regulated over time. But when great players start to lose confidence in their abilities (despite having an outstanding head coach, imho) more great players won't help.

If we were a corporation, the answer would be a change of leadership.

THIS BELIEF DOES NOT MAKE ME A BANDWAGON FAN!

This is in my opinion, one of the best posts I have seen lately. I don't know how anyone can look at this game and say "it's one bad game, the wings are fine". They have been showing this kind of play since at least New Years. It's this lackluster (we'll win it at the end) mentality. I am not used to seeing this out of the Wings. I have been a fan since I was a kid, back in 92 I think when the Wings came back from 3 games to 1 against the North Stars and then lost in 7 to Toronto if I'm not mistaken. I love the Wings. But when they play like this and over a long period of time, I have every right as a fan to:

A. Turn off the game and not waste my time.

B. Criticize my team where I feel pertinent.

I did B yesterday, but managed to watch the train wreck. When i twas 9-3 I actually started WISHING they would make it 10. I do not remember seeing any team put 10 goals up on the Wings ever. But hell, we're that close, let's see it. What I wish for is that they come out of this with their heads on straight now and say "boy we have been sucking, let's get it going".

I think Saturday will say a lot. IF the wings come to play and win, or even do very well but still lose on a bad break or something, then I will feel a little better. But if they go to Nashville and play another bad game, I think we are in for a short playoff, and I think by then we'll be looking at 5th-6th in the final standings. This thing has gone south in a hurry.

With regard to replacing Babcock, I have wondered this. I think babs is a great coach, maybe the best in the league now, and I love him. But things may have gotten stale. Maybe the vets don't like being yelled at or something. I don't know. We don't know what's going on in the locker room, but boy it sure seems like the chemistry is off with this team. There's far too much talent on this team to be playing like they have been.

I judge goalies based on how they allow goals, not how many they allow. Macdonald is completely not to blame yesterday. I don't believe he allowed one bad goal. When teams are getting open pops at pucks right in front of him what's he suppposed to do? I maintain that game could have been 20-3 had he not played well. When the defense does their job and goals go in then I start wondering about the goalie a bit, depending of course, on the situation (like the other night when Howard let 4 in and got pulled and we came back to tie). But right now, I'd still play Howard, find out what we have this playoff with him, find out if he's made of steel or not.

This off season we may be due for a decent shakeup if the wings get bounced in round 1.

[Firehawk 305]

I see two things

First their positioning in terms of general defense is terrible, I'm not sure what this is about outside of Ericcson who just can't seem to figure it out and Kindl who is young. The rest know what to do and simply aren't doing it.

Second and far more important is basic motivation. Simply put wining has become a way of life and they are no longer motivated by winning alone. Historically they have always taken some time off in the regular season however this year it seems to be the norm rather than the exception. This lack of motivation effects everything, they don't hit, the don't clear the net of people and pucks, there 1/4 second slow on everything, s***ty passes and lots of turnovers in the all important transition game. If a team is consistently loosing the battle for loose pucks that's a motivation work thing and that's what I think we are dealing with.

This is really tough for Babs, yelling isn't going to work, hell I'm not sure winning is going to work the players have to find something to play for, maybe that's the playoffs maybe its not but were going to find out real soon.

How about pride? How about the fact that you have a bad defensive team statistically? Under Bowman I think that was the motivation. I would love to know how Bowman got them motivated to be stingy and take it personal when they got scored on, because Bowman had them believing allowing a goal was like getting shot or something. I don't think many vets liked Bowman, not even Yzerman at first, but they were convinced to change and then started winning like crazy.

Well, Babcock has won a cup here with them. I just think something with the chemistry is wrong. When have we known a wings team not to be hard working? I mean that's all we've been hearing for many years, even from free agents that come here, that the wings are the hardest working team off the ice that they've seen? Is that just smoke up our butts? Maybe it is.

Clearly something is off though. I don't think it's somethign shallow either, like bad bounces or breaks. I think it's something with the chemistry, albeit the coach/players, the team hates one of the players, there is division in the room, etc. Something is just 'off'.

[chrisdetroit 189]

Are you watching the same Red Wings team as I am?

I never ***** about the goalies, because goalies have good games and bad games like everybody else.

HOWEVER...

The Wings aren't just having bad games, they are in a progressive slouch towards the playoffs. As the season progresses, every aspect of their game looks worse. As Babs pointed out, he doesn't really mind if they lose so long as they play well.

...they are NOT playing well, and that poor level of play is only getting worse.

I'll say the goalies are the exception. Mac does well, but I'm sure facing a zillion shots every night gets old for a new goalie.

We are losing our creativity on offense and the PP as the season wears on. You must not be watching games if you can't see that.

Our defense is...good god...what can a person say? If you don't think our D is in a free-fall and getting worse, then you are watching another team's channel.

I've been a Wings fan forever, and I'm sure I'm older than most of the people on this board. If we were a bad team playing hard but getting thumped, such is life. Consequently:

-We're either a bad team that over-achieved the first half of the season and is massively overpaid, ala the rangers. or

-We're a good team that is losing the capacity to play well.

I believe we're in the second situation, which is wayyyyyyyyy more scary. Bad teams can be up-regulated over time. But when great players start to lose confidence in their abilities (despite having an outstanding head coach, imho) more great players won't help.

If we were a corporation, the answer would be a change of leadership.

THIS BELIEF DOES NOT MAKE ME A BANDWAGON FAN!

What a load of garbage. Before last nights game, the Wings had given up 22 goals in the previous 10 games. That's 2.2 goals/game. So no, the Wings aren't going down the tubes. A zillion shots? WTF does that mean. Losing the capacity to play well. Go watch the Pistons.

[Hey man nice shot! 144]

I will only say lastnight was a surprise bday party for me at the joe....and surprise it was.

[HankthaTank 1,100]

“A lot of words were said. We're going to keep that in the room,'' Lidstrom said. "But effort-wise we know we have to do a lot better job.''

I really hope "certain" players were getting in other's faces. It was necessary last night. We are the Red Wings ffs. With all these 8 paragraph posts and all this for free analytical work people have been doing on here all day how about....

PLAY LIKE YOU WANT IT

[chrisdetroit 189]

This is in my opinion, one of the best posts I have seen lately. I don't know how anyone can look at this game and say "it's one bad game, the wings are fine". They have been showing this kind of play since at least New Years. It's this lackluster (we'll win it at the end) mentality. I am not used to seeing this out of the Wings. I have been a fan since I was a kid, back in 92 I think when the Wings came back from 3 games to 1 against the North Stars and then lost in 7 to Toronto if I'm not mistaken. I love the Wings. But when they play like this and over a long period of time, I have every right as a fan to:

A. Turn off the game and not waste my time.

B. Criticize my team where I feel pertinent.

I did B yesterday, but managed to watch the train wreck. When i twas 9-3 I actually started WISHING they would make it 10. I do not remember seeing any team put 10 goals up on the Wings ever. But hell, we're that close, let's see it. What I wish for is that they come out of this with their heads on straight now and say "boy we have been sucking, let's get it going".

I think Saturday will say a lot. IF the wings come to play and win, or even do very well but still lose on a bad break or something, then I will feel a little better. But if they go to Nashville and play another bad game, I think we are in for a short playoff, and I think by then we'll be looking at 5th-6th in the final standings. This thing has gone south in a hurry.

With regard to replacing Babcock, I have wondered this. I think babs is a great coach, maybe the best in the league now, and I love him. But things may have gotten stale. Maybe the vets don't like being yelled at or something. I don't know. We don't know what's going on in the locker room, but boy it sure seems like the chemistry is off with this team. There's far too much talent on this team to be playing like they have been.

I judge goalies based on how they allow goals, not how many they allow. Macdonald is completely not to blame yesterday. I don't believe he allowed one bad goal. When teams are getting open pops at pucks right in front of him what's he suppposed to do? I maintain that game could have been 20-3 had he not played well. When the defense does their job and goals go in then I start wondering about the goalie a bit, depending of course, on the situation (like the other night when Howard let 4 in and got pulled and we came back to tie). But right now, I'd still play Howard, find out what we have this playoff with him, find out if he's made of steel or not.

This off season we may be due for a decent shakeup if the wings get bounced in round 1.

I stopped reading when I got to that part because I realized that this is just irrational.

Look at the standings. We are 6 points ahead of Nashville AND we own the tie breaker. That means that for them to win the division and us to end up below 3rd place, they have to gain at least 7 point on us. Each team has 5 games left. Let's suppose that Nashville wins all 5 games for 10 points, that would mean that we would only have to get 4 points in 5 games to win the division. We would only need to win 2 of our last 5 games. BOTH things would have to happen, Nashville 5-0, Detroit 1-3-1. Mathematically that's possible but highly unlikely. So obviously your post is irrational.

[Firehawk 305]

What a load of garbage. Before last nights game, the Wings had given up 22 goals in the previous 10 games. That's 2.2 goals/game. So no, the Wings aren't going down the tubes. A zillion shots? WTF does that mean. Losing the capacity to play well. Go watch the Pistons.

Ok, let's look at the entire season to this point. 226 goals allowed over 77 games equals over a 2.93 goals per game average.

That's good for the worst defensive team IN THE PLAYOFFS RIGHT NOW except for Tampa Bay who has given up 230 with one less game played.

It's unbelievable. What was the stat for the goals scored in the last 10 games? Because that number has also been down substantially. The stat that matters less with regard to offense is that the wings have the 2nd best offense out of all the playoff teams currently in the league. This matters less because defense wins championships.

[wingslogo19 281]

You play to win the game

[chrisdetroit 189]

Ok, let's look at the entire season to this point. 226 goals allowed over 77 games equals over a 2.93 goals per game average.

That's good for the worst defensive team IN THE PLAYOFFS RIGHT NOW except for Tampa Bay who has given up 230 with one less game played.

It's unbelievable. What was the stat for the goals scored in the last 10 games? Because that number has also been down substantially. The stat that matters less with regard to offense is that the wings have the 2nd best offense out of all the playoff teams currently in the league. This matters less because defense wins championships.

I was responding to the irrational babbling that said that the teams were going down the tubes. My point is that before last night, they were playing much better defensively which is not the sign of a team going down the tubes. Who cares how many goals they gave up in October-February. You do realize that the stats that you are referring to are for the entire season don't you. Those stats don't matter. What matters is how they play in the playoffs and how they are playing going into the playoffs. Before last night they were playing well defensively and had slipped a little on offense.

[Firehawk 305]

I stopped reading when I got to that part because I realized that this is just irrational.

Look at the standings. We are 6 points ahead of Nashville AND we own the tie breaker. That means that for them to win the division and us to end up below 3rd place, they have to gain at least 7 point on us. Each team has 5 games left. Let's suppose that Nashville wins all 5 games for 10 points, that would mean that we would only have to get 4 points in 5 games to win the division. We would only need to win 2 of our last 5 games. BOTH things would have to happen, Nashville 5-0, Detroit 1-3-1. Mathematically that's possible but highly unlikely. So obviously your post is irrational.

It's completely rational, because it's:

A) Possible

B) Likely, considering what we've been seeing.

In case you weren't aware, if Nashville wins tonight, that puts them within 4, and then they have us on Saturday. If they win that, they're within 2. Suddenly it's not looking very good. Then, we have the daunting task of playing Chicago in back to back games. Chicago is trying to MAKE the playoffs, so they have a ton to play for and have something to prove against the red wings.

The other two are Minnesota and Carolina. Carolina is trying to get into the playoffs, and Minnesota sucks, just like we thought the Blues Did.

I'm sorry, but you need to look at the schedule. We can easily lose 4 of the next 5, EASILY.

It's not a really likely scenario like you say, but it's a possible situation, very possible in fact.

[Firehawk 305]

I was responding to the irrational babbling that said that the teams were going down the tubes. My point is that before last night, they were playing much better defensively which is not the sign of a team going down the tubes. Who cares how many goals they gave up in October-February. You do realize that the stats that you are referring to are for the entire season don't you. Those stats don't matter. What matters is how they play in the playoffs and how they are playing going into the playoffs. Before last night they were playing well defensively and had slipped a little on offense.

You are certainly right in that what happens in October or December doesn't matter when the playoffs start. You can also say here that what you do all the way up to the last game of the regular season doesn't have any bearing on the playoffs either, two separate situations. SO, what you really mean to say then, is it doesn't matter what they do right now anyway, only when the playoffs start.

Fine. I hope you are right and the playoffs bring the wings back to the wings we know well. But it didn't last year. We struggled with a Phoenix team who wasn't really that good, and was filled with a bunch of no-name players around Doan. Nobody knew who they were and the media did a great job building them up, just like they always do. Then we got manhandled by SJ, who is a good team.

Unlike years past (with the exception of last year), the wings have not shown these kinds of signs. Fans have always been skeptical of any goalie, but when Lidstrom starts getting burned, which NONE of us are used to seeing, Rafalski is playing with braces on all over his body, the 3rd and 4th guys are just average, and the 5th and 6th pairing absolutely sucks, I don't know how you can excuse this. These signs have been shown all year long.

I wanna believe that for 10 games, or 9, that they have hopefully gotten it back together a bit, but the longer term states otherwise.

You know, I think the hard part for most of us fans that have been watching this team for 20 years or less, is that we are going to have to admit very soon here that we are not the team to beat anymore. Vancouver, San Jose, Chicago, those are the teams that we are now using to judge ourselves. We used to be the ruler. I don't think that is the case anymore.

I think some fans here have a tough time coming to grips with that.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Wow, one bad game and the bandwagon Wings fans are jumping off. Please delete your account off the site and go join the ranks of the Canucks. Some members on this site are an absolute embarrassment to real Wings fans who back their team.

[donfishmaster 62]

"Load of garbage"

"Irrational babbling"

You are an unpleasant, annoying...ummmm....individual, chrisdetroit.

Edited April 1, 2011 by donfishmaster

[luvpucks 7]

Of course last night was amazingly embarassing. However I don't see this as a defining moment of the season nor a preview of what we can expect in the playoffs. Here's my take:

1. Any mistake made by J Mac can be attributed to an off night. If anything Detroit would have more than likely lost 6-3 or 7-3 (still ugly but would've been better) and the Wings offensively maybe would've done another Pittsburgh comeback; unlikely of course seeing as they were playing be deflated after going down by so much. After Mac's great performance against Chicago and his previous games a back up/relief he was due for an ugly night.

2. Putting in a goalie from the ECHL had disaster written on it from the start. There's a reason Toledo is last in the North division. Now I know Detroit didn't have a choice with Howard and Ozzie being out but what was everyone expecting? Detroit needed to keep Mac in if they were gonna have a fighting chance.

3. For awhile, this was a good offensive performance by Detroit. As flat as they had been their last couple games, putting up 3 in two periods was a bright spot. Now it's a stretch to say they could have come back as they were FLAT after that 2nd period but that Pittsburgh game did wonders for MY faith. This game could've been different with Datsyuk back, but shoulda, coulda, woulda.

4. From reading all the posts on here about the game, everyone agrees on defense was to blame and I do too. The lines need to go back to Lids-Rafalski and Kronners-Stuart. All we can do is hope they go back to these pairings playoffs.

So after letting the game settle for a whole day, I don't feel uneasy. I felt worse in '09 after they lost 8-0 to Nashville in February and look where they went. Also I'm one of those fans that believes they perform better in the playoffs. This team is still much to talented to not make at least a decent run.